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evyaniy

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Hebrews 13

10 We have an altar from which those who serve the holy tabernacle have no right to eat. 11 For the bodies of those animals, whose blood is brought into the holy place by the high priest as an offering for sin, are burned outside of the camp. 12 Therefore Yeshua also, that He might sanctify the people through His own blood, suffered outside of the gate. 13 Let’s therefore go out to Him outside of the camp, bearing His reproach. 14 For we don’t have here an enduring city, but we seek that which is to come. 15 Through Him, then, let’s offer up a sacrifice of praise to EL continually, that is, the fruit of lips which proclaim allegiance to His name. 16 But don’t forget to be doing good and sharing, for with such sacrifices EL is well pleased.
 

Evmur

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Feb 28, 2021
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I came so close to posting something that I may have regretted later down the road. The following is a revised version of that post.
I came to this forum seeking answers. I found out so much about today's religion that explains a lot.
First I found that it seems we have a following of church doctrine over the True Word. As has been made clear in almost every thread I opened. As if your church doctrine holds more truth.
Second, it seems that being a true follower of the True Word, must be shunned at all cost.
The True Word is clear on this, and the words made me ask. Do I truly know? Or am I following what tickles the ear? 2Tim. 4:3-4
Not an exact quote mind you. However it does convey the same idea, and understanding.
As not many people on here has the spirit of worrier as the Word is clear we are called to be, or has the fortitude to even try, I feel for you all. You will be in my prayers in hopes that HaShem, or Yahovah will find a way to lead you to truth. His Truth.
Yeshua when he called out the Pharisees may well have been speaking to religious leaders of today. Again not an exact quote. What he said not an easy thing to swallow.
He called the sons of Satan, hypocrites, teaching man's doctrine as if it was HaShems own. Mat.15:7-9
What so many on here wish to do is push away any that see things in a different light. Wishing to persent themselves as knowing more than they really do. Yet when pressed on a topic, they say they know so well, can't or won't even try to make the other see how they are wrong. It's kind of like telling some one they were speeding, when they were doing 35 in a 40mile an hour zone. You say it, yet when asked your only reply is, Because I said so. Ok not in those words, yet by not engaging on a topic you brought forth, you may as well say it that way.
So now I ask you, if you wish to be the teacher you are in your own mind, why hide from it?
Rather than turn to name calling, belittlement, or be dismissive, why not engage? It gives you the chance to teach, and learn. Yet on here it as though the one that stands a lone prevails simply by asking how your teaching is in context with the Whole of the Word. As for myself, I welcome any challenge to my understanding. As it opens the door to seeing how I may be wrong. That in turns makes me a better teacher, and student.
What it doesn't do is show how right I am. You see once we take on the thinking of ME, MY CHURCH, and so on, we leave the True Word behind in favor of my thoughts, my church, and so on.
As true followers, we should have a hunger to learn, and a thirst for truth. Though for many the quest for understanding stops at the door of their church. They don't study the word, and many don't read it at all. Oh they have it with them, and may even open it when the pastor gives a passage. Then they just blindly follow what ever is told to them.
Once more, in closing, I came here to learn more than I think I know. I came to seek truth. Something that is not forthcoming in a place that one would think it should be. If one follows what the Word truly says, they are called names, belittled, and so on. Yet nothing of substance is ever offered up.
I have seen people say they know the Word, and have mesmerized most of the Bible, or N.T. That's all good, if you have a true understanding of it. Yet is made pointless if you know it, and don't follow it. So will someone please explain to me, why do say you hold more understanding, yet are so unwilling to debate most topics, when you see something wrong with a teaching or understanding?
have a sincere love for the brethren ... that's a command
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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First it wasn't HaShem that did this
shall we imagine it was not God's will being carried out on earth?


Jeremiah 43:10​
Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: "Behold, I will send and bring Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, My servant, and will set his throne above these stones that I have hidden."

2 Kings 25:8-9​
And in the fifth month, on the seventh [day] of the month (which [was] the nineteenth year of King Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon), Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard, a servant of the king of Babylon, came to Jerusalem. He burned the house of the LORD and the king's house; all the houses of Jerusalem, that is, all the houses of the great, he burned with fire.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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shall we imagine it was not God's will being carried out on earth?


Jeremiah 43:10​
Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: "Behold, I will send and bring Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, My servant, and will set his throne above these stones that I have hidden."

2 Kings 25:8-9​
And in the fifth month, on the seventh [day] of the month (which [was] the nineteenth year of King Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon), Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard, a servant of the king of Babylon, came to Jerusalem. He burned the house of the LORD and the king's house; all the houses of Jerusalem, that is, all the houses of the great, he burned with fire.
You should really not be deceptive in your post. When only posting a part of someone has said you can mislead others. Then after all this time I really expect nothing less from you.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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You should really not be deceptive in your post. When only posting a part of someone has said you can mislead others. Then after all this time I really expect nothing less from you.
i quote the section i am directly addressing.

Rather than turn to name calling, belittlement, or be dismissive, why not engage?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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((in re: why did God take away the temple from Jerusalem after the law of His covenant with Israel commanded no sacrifice for sin is acceptable outside of the place He chose?))

Next it had to be done in fulfillment of prophecy. Deut. 28:64-68.
nothing in Deuteronomy 28 mentions the temple being taken away. the curses in Deuteronomy 28, prophesied with the giving of the covenant ((which are sure to fall on those under the Law, see Deuteronomy 30:1)), include the tearing down of walls and gates, and captivity, and foreign rule.
but they don't say the temple will be removed.
they don't say blood atonement will be impossible.
they don't say that the offerings of Yom Kippur will become impossible to carry out, so that they will remain hopelessly in sin, condemned by the Law of their covenant.


but read on in ch. 30 —

Deuteronomy 30:3-6​
the LORD your God will bring you back from captivity, and have compassion on you, and gather you again from all the nations where the LORD your God has scattered you.
If [any] of you are driven out to the farthest [parts] under heaven, from there the LORD your God will gather you, and from there He will bring you.
Then the LORD your God will bring you to the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it. He will prosper you and multiply you more than your fathers.
And the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.
The promise is that after the Law condemns, when the people realize they have no righteousness of their own, the LORD Himself will circumcise with a circumcision that is not physical, and He Himself will bless them and cause them to walk in His ways.

not by the keeping of the covenant but by His mercy.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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When I look at it I find that it must be in line with the whole of The Word. Meaning that we need to look at only Biblical definitions of all that is said.
remember Jeremiah 3, and 7.

Deuteronomy is a marriage covenant, and it was annulled.
no longer will it be said "the ark of the covenant, the ark of tge covenant" - it will be forgotten.

and remember all you have seen in Romans, in Galatians, in Colossians.

The LORD says that in Christ we have died, to consider ourselves dead - through which the law has no jurisdiction over us, and we passed out of judgment into life.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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I am sure that some will say it was due to sin, and that may well be a part of it, however, as it stands it did fulfill the prophecy given in Deut. 28.
"it fulfills prophecy" is not an explanation of why God does something.

that is like saying, i went to the grocery store because i said i was going to the grocery store. this adds no information to address the question "why did you go to the store?" - it only puts off the question. it isn't an answer. if that is the sum of the meaning, it's flippant.

why did God take away the temple?

the answer is not, because He prophesies He would ((though Deuteronomy 28 don't snt even say this)).
receiving auch a reply, naturally i press further, "why then did He foretell it - which is the same as the first question, showing it is yet unanswered: why is it His intention to require many sacrifices which can only be made at the temple, and also His intention to them remove that temple, such that it is become manifestly impossible to obey the requirement of the Law?
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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i quote the section i am directly addressing.
Even so, you did leave out the most important thing in mine. Had you bothered to look at the full post, you would have seen the answer to your question.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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"it fulfills prophecy" is not an explanation of why God does something.

that is like saying, i went to the grocery store because i said i was going to the grocery store. this adds no information to address the question "why did you go to the store?" - it only puts off the question. it isn't an answer. if that is the sum of the meaning, it's flippant.

why did God take away the temple?

the answer is not, because He prophesies He would ((though Deuteronomy 28 don't snt even say this)).
receiving auch a reply, naturally i press further, "why then did He foretell it - which is the same as the first question, showing it is yet unanswered: why is it His intention to require many sacrifices which can only be made at the temple, and also His intention to them remove that temple, such that it is become manifestly impossible to obey the requirement of the Law?
Would you rather I say, HaShem let it happen so that his Words would be fulfilled? The Hebrew people wouldn't have given up the fight so long as the Temple was standing. So, with the Temple gone, they gave up the fight.
Now you can get as upset as you like about the way I speak to you. however as is clear you do your best to belittle me. Then when it comes out that you have not acted in a manner that backs everything you said, it's wrong of me. I will be happy to go back and find everytime you have done this, and the times you say one thing here, and then do a 180 in the next post if it will help you.
So from that I will say speaking with you isn't much help. You read into the Word, and what I say what you want to find there, and disregard any direct question asked, if you can't find a way around the plain text. Before you say, "NO I DON"T" You have yet to reply to my question on mat. 5:17 and 18 in regards to many post.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Would you rather I say, HaShem let it happen so that his Words would be fulfilled?
that's still equivalent to "i went to the store because i said I was going to the store"

what was needed from the store?

why was it His intention to remove the temple?
He is perfect - it is perfect that the temple be no more. why is no more temple the perfect outcome?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Now you can get as upset as you like about the way I speak to you.
not upset.

still waiting for you to stop thinking this is personal ((doing exactly what you complain about in post #1)) and start talking about Christ.

trying to lead you there.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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You have yet to reply to my question on mat. 5:17 and 18 in regards to many post.
OK how about i answer you plainly for the 13th time...

  • the Law stands to condemn all who reject Christ. Romans 7.
  • the Law has no jurisdiction over the Christian. Romans 7.
there is no hope in the law and the Law cannot produce righteousness. the law is not of faith, and whatever is not of faith is sin.

  • what does the law teach us? ((hint: Deuteronomy 30))
  • why is it God's will that there is no more temple in Jerusalem today?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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So from that I will say speaking with you isn't much help. You read into the Word
The Word literally says,

Colossians 3:2-3​
Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
how then can you say i am 'reading into' things to say i have died, and how then can you say you 'take the whole Word into account' while you openly deny this plain truth?

so you see, i can readily demonstrate your understanding of the gospel is not complete. which is why we are talking about what it means that God removed the glory from the temple, and what it means that He removed the temple itself. why did He do these things? He tore the veil. He changed the priesthood. He did something that turned all the wisdom of the teachers of the law into foolishness.

He became flesh, pitched His tent among us, and gave Himself once and for all, perfecting forever all who He is sanctifying. and He did this outside of the Levitical system, outside of the temple, outside of the beautiful city -- right on top of the buried head of Goliath.

this is perfect!
why?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,726
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Hebrews 7:19



Galatians 2:21



Galatians 3:12



Romans 14:23
why then the law?
and why does God make it so that being baptized into Christ remove the Law's jurisdiction over us?

the purpose for which God gave Israel sabbaths was so that they would know that it is the LORD which sanctifies them.

to be still, to wait upon Him, to know He is God

:)

for this reason He came, and for this reason there is salvation in no one else
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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answered you quite plainly about a dozen times.
Funny it isn't on here. Sure you went the long way about never giving a direct explanation of how what you say fits with this. It's all good I understand, either you can't answer as your teachings don't fit with it, or you won't answer becoause you don't want to find you may be wrong.