GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

[PS]

is this the same God in these two passages?

Genesis 2: 7. Yhwh God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

This is the true God, the creator.

Leviticus 20: 1. Yhwh spoke to Moses, saying, 2. "Moreover, you shall tell the children of Israel, 'Anyone of the children of Israel, or of the strangers who live as foreigners in Israel, who gives any of his seed to Molech; he shall surely be put to death. The people of the land shall stone him with stones.

The Israelites worshipped many gods, Yhwh was a jealous god, and demanded sole worship at pain of death. Islam is the same. There is no compulsion under Christ who is a God of love. He said come unto me all ye who are weary and I will give you rest. We are alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.... For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. (Rom 6:11-14 KJV)

 

[Studyman]

Negative, you are sitting on the fence and cannot reconcile the two. Saul was a good Jew only in the eyes of other Jews. After he repented and followed Christ he became a good Christian.

The change was remarkable. Why? Because originally he was following the deceiver.

We can see the two G/gods at work in the life of Saul/Paul.

Yes, that is my point. Paul followed the traditions and doctrines of religious man before his conversion, and followed the Commandments of God after his conversion.

We was an "Anti-Christ before his conversion, and a Faithful "Servant of the Word which became flesh" after his conversion.

Saul was not a Good Jew PS. He was a "viper" a Hypocrite, a murderer, according to the "Good Jews" if you consider JTB as a good Jew.

To the Mainstream Preachers who murdered the prophets, and Stephen and their own Messiah, he was a "good Jew", but to the Prophets, and the Christ he was the deceiver.

18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

The preaching that the Pharisees, including Saul, were trying to "Earn" Salvation by following God's Laws is simply a lie PS. It an ancient religious doctrine, created by the catholic church, that has deceived many people, but has no basis of truth in the Word of God.

That is the purpose of my post to begin with.

 

[posthuman]

Yes, after his conversion he became a good Jew. Before that he was an "Anti-Christ" murderer of innocent people and a liar who turned others away from God.

after he met Christ, he became a Christian, and said there was no more Gentile / Jew.
and he contended for most the rest of his life on earth against those who were teaching that believers in Christ must become physically Jews.

before he met Christ, he was an "Hebrew of the Hebrews" -- scrupulously keeping the Law.
((there's another scripture we must not boldly reject & redefine, btw))

 

[posthuman]

Yes, that is my point. Paul followed the traditions and doctrines of religious man before his conversion, and followed the Commandments of God after his conversion.

please see Philippians ch. 3

"the Law" means "the Law"

 

[posthuman]

You do to me as you do to the Christ. you only post parts of my post as use it to promote your religion.

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

stop right here, put your opinions in a bin and set them on fire. walk away.

what does the scripture say in this context?

is Paul listing a a bunch of evil things that damn him in the flesh?
is Paul listing a bunch of things that would justify confidence in the flesh ?

 

[PS]

Yes, that is my point. Paul followed the traditions and doctrines of religious man before his conversion, and followed the Commandments of God after his conversion.

We was an "Anti-Christ before his conversion, and a Faithful "Servant of the Word which became flesh" after his conversion.

Saul was not a Good Jew PS. He was a "viper" a Hypocrite, a murderer, according to the "Good Jews" if you consider JTB as a good Jew.

To the Mainstream Preachers who murdered the prophets, and Stephen and their own Messiah, he was a "good Jew", but to the Prophets, and the Christ he was the deceiver.

18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

The preaching that the Pharisees, including Saul, were trying to "Earn" Salvation by following God's Laws is simply a lie PS. It an ancient religious doctrine, created by the catholic church, that has deceived many people, but has no basis of truth in the Word of God.

That is the purpose of my post to begin with.

There is only 1 God, but people were following two very different religions and both were at odds with the other.

As there is only 1 God, there can only be 1 true religion. I leave it to you to chose between the religion of Saul or the religion of Paul.

 

[Dan_473]

So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute Him. In His defense Jesus said to them,
​

“My Father is always at His work to this very day, and I too am working.”
​

For this reason they tried all the more to kill Him; not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
(John 5:16-18)​

IMO any time i think the Bible is simple, i'm missing out on an unfathomable depth of meaning.

"IMO any time i think the Bible is simple, i'm missing out on an unfathomable depth of meaning.*"

boy, isn't that true!

 

[gb9]

please see Philippians ch. 3

"the Law" means "the Law"

words have definitions and meanings. these meanings are not open for personal opinions. some just use words, with no thought or care of what the words they throw around actually mean.

 

[Studyman]

after he met Christ, he became a Christian, and said there was no more Gentile / Jew.
and he contended for most the rest of his life on earth against those who were teaching that believers in Christ must become physically Jews.

Yes, before his conversion he transgressed God's Commandments by his ancient religious traditions. He taught for Doctrines, the Commandments of Men, not God.

After his conversion he rejected these "Commandments of men" that the Pharisees, including himself, had tried to force on the people for centuries and followed God's Word.

Acts 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

21 For these causes the Jews (Pharisees) caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me.

22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Before his conversion he didn't teach this truth. He was a Pharisee and taught their religion, not the Word's of God.

I know this because Jesus said they taught for Doctrines "the Commandments of Men", not God. The Word's of God were strange to the Pharisees. Paul said they called them "Heresy".

14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they (Pharisees) call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Before his conversion he was a Pharisee. He didn't believe "ALL THINGS" written in the Law and Prophets, they were "heresy" to him.

Some things are just truth. We either believe them or we don't. Our belief or unbelief doesn't change the truth.

 

[posthuman]

words have definitions and meanings. these meanings are not open for personal opinions. some just use words, with no thought or care of what the words they throw around actually mean.

some only think & care for what they vainly desire the words to mean

 

[Studyman]

There is only 1 God, but people were following two very different religions and both were at odds with the other.

As there is only 1 God, there can only be 1 true religion. I leave it to you to chose between the religion of Saul or the religion of Paul.

Absolutely.

There are the Word's of God and the religious traditions of man.

 

[Dan_473]

This is the true God, the creator.



The Israelites worshipped many gods, Yhwh was a jealous god, and demanded sole worship at pain of death. Islam is the same. There is no compulsion under Christ who is a God of love. He said come unto me all ye who are weary and I will give you rest. We are alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.... For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. (Rom 6:11-14 KJV)

okay, so in your view there are two different gods in the Old Testament both named yhwh, yes?

that being the case, if the fake God is speaking in Leviticus 20, then is it the fake God that is speaking all throughout Leviticus?

 

[posthuman]

Yes, before his conversion he transgressed God's Commandments by his ancient religious traditions. He taught for Doctrines, the Commandments of Men, not God.

After his conversion he rejected these "Commandments of men" that the Pharisees, including himself, had tried to force on the people for centuries and followed God's Word.

Acts 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

21 For these causes the Jews (Pharisees) caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me.

22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Before his conversion he didn't teach this truth. He was a Pharisee and taught their religion, not the Word's of God.

I know this because Jesus said they taught for Doctrines "the Commandments of Men", not God. The Word's of God were strange to the Pharisees. Paul said they called them "Heresy".

14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they (Pharisees) call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Before his conversion he was a Pharisee. He didn't believe "ALL THINGS" written in the Law and Prophets, they were "heresy" to him.

Some things are just truth. We either believe them or we don't. Our belief or unbelief doesn't change the truth.

before he met Christ he believed Jesus was a blasphemer. in scrupulous devotion and zeal to the commandments, e.g. Leviticus 24:16, he persecuted the church.
he found out different. he found out that it wasn't blasphemy, and that Jesus actually is the One all the Law and the Prophets write about.

that's what Acts 26 says.

his eyes were opened to the things Christ revealed to those disciples on the road to Emmaus.
nowhere in Acts 26 is "traditions and commandments of men" mentioned.

[/DEBUNK]

 

[posthuman]

14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they (Pharisees) call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Before his conversion he was a Pharisee. He didn't believe "ALL THINGS" written in the Law and Prophets, they were "heresy" to him.

Some things are just truth. We either believe them or we don't. Our belief or unbelief doesn't change the truth.

you are right; your unbelief doesn't change the truth.

the charge against Jesus was blasphemy, not failure to wash His hands before He ate.
the teachers of the Law were supremely offended by how He walked as though Lord of the Sabbath rather than servant of it.

they did not believe He was the Messiah, so they considered Him and all who followed Him heretics.

Paul says in v. 14 that after the way which He was called heretic he now worships Him.
in the exact same way He was called heretic.
this does not jive at all with your idea that Jesus was called heretic for failing to keep purely human traditions. if that were so, then Paul would be saying he now worships Him with human traditions. no; He was called heretic because they did not believe that He is I AM -- and Paul now worships Him as I AM.

. . if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins.
Then said they unto him, Who art thou?
And Jesus saith unto them,
Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
(John 8:24-25)

​

for this​ they sought to kill Him.
not for handwashing. not for associating with sinners. not for entering the house of gentiles.
for what in their blindness they thought was blasphemy.

 

[Studyman]

before he met Christ, he was an "Hebrew of the Hebrews" -- scrupulously keeping the Law.
((there's another scripture we must not boldly reject & redefine, btw))

You preach "scrupulously keeping the Law." and inject "God's Laws" even though the entire bible, including Paul himself, teaches just the opposite. Paul tells us he was zealous of the "Jews religion" which created their own Law according to him, the prophets, and Jesus the Christ.

He said "as toughing the Law" a Pharisee, which the entire Bible from the Prophets, to John the Baptist, to Jesus, to Stephen all say had "rejected God's Laws and created their own".

You are free to boldly reject and re-define the religion of the Pharisees to save your religion if you want.

But your rejection or unbelief doesn't change the Biblical facts regarding the religion of the Pharisees. Your refusal to acknowledge any of the scriptures regarding them is fascinating. You version of this one sentence doesn't erase the rest of the Bible.

 

[posthuman]

You preach "scrupulously keeping the Law." and inject "God's Laws" even though the entire bible, including Paul himself, teaches just the opposite.

i'm not "injecting" the Law.
Philippians 3 literally says "the Law"

you're injecting 'traditions and commandments of purely human origin' where the scripture clearly says "the Law"

throughout the entire Bible, "the Law" means "the Law"


this is stupidly obvious, studydude.

 

[PS]

okay, so in your view there are two different gods in the Old Testament both named yhwh, yes?

that being the case, if the fake God is speaking in Leviticus 20, then is it the fake God that is speaking all throughout Leviticus?

Moses did follow the true God much of the time. He received the commandments from the LORD, while at the same time Aaron was making a Golden Calf he called LORD.

As they are not the same this makes our task more difficult. I can only suggest we consider the context and ask ourselves whether or not we can sit back and imagine ourselves listening to Jesus.

 

[posthuman]

@Studyman :

Philippians 3:1-11

is this a list of things that damn the flesh or a list of things that would justify confidence in the flesh ((if such confidence were possible)) ?

simple question.

 

[Studyman]

you are right; your unbelief doesn't change the truth.

the charge against Jesus was blasphemy, not failure to wash His hands before He ate.
the teachers of the Law were supremely offended by how He walked as though Lord of the Sabbath rather than servant of it.

they did not believe He was the Messiah, so they considered Him and all who followed Him heretics.

Paul says in v. 14 that after the way which He was called heretic he now worships Him.
in the exact same way He was called heretic.
this does not jive at all with your idea that Jesus was called heretic for failing to keep purely human traditions. if that were so, then Paul would be saying he now worships Him with human traditions. no; He was called heretic because they did not believe that He is I AM -- and Paul now worships Him as I AM.

. . if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins.
Then said they unto him, Who art thou?
And Jesus saith unto them,
Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
(John 8:24-25)

​

for this​ they sought to kill Him.

Matt. 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:


Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

What some self righteous religious person, who transgresses the Commandments of God by their own religious traditions, "charge" against Jesus, the Prophets, Stephen, Paul, Peter or anyone else who hold Every Word of God as relevant, means nothing.

It certainly doesn't make the Pharisees "blameless", nor does it make the preaching that the Pharisees were "following the Commandments of God" any less of a lie.

Your insistence that it does can not change the truth of the Scriptures.

 

[posthuman]

Matt. 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:


Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

What some self righteous religious person, who transgresses the Commandments of God by their own religious traditions, "charge" against Jesus, the Prophets, Stephen, Paul, Peter or anyone else who hold Every Word of God as relevant, means nothing.

It certainly doesn't make the Pharisees "blameless", nor does it make the preaching that the Pharisees were "following the Commandments of God" any less of a lie.

Your insistence that it does can not change the truth of the Scriptures.

did they seek to put Jesus to death because they thought He was blaspheming or because He entered the house of a Gentile?

simple question.