GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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Dan_473

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post is definitely not a preacher. :p

"the Law" has meant "the Law" since the LORD gave it to Moses.

what's actually a more recent invention is re-defining "
the Law" to mean "human tradition" wherever it would upset a person's private doctrine if what is literally written in scripture is what is literally written in scripture.
true
and the law is indivisible

You shall walk in all the way which the*Lord
your God has commanded you

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+5&version=NASB
 

Dan_473

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Sorry, I do not believe it is right for one person, or a group of people, to take the life of another. Neither do I think the commandment to kill our fellow human beings came from the "Word made flesh."
I'm interested and how you reconcile this in your mind with the idea that the Bible is inerrant

did you want to talk about that?
last time we talked about it, if I remember right, at one point you said you didn't want to talk about it anymore.
that's cool if you don't want to talk about it
 

Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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Paul persecuted the church because he believed Jesus was guilty of blasphemy against God's own Law. zeal.

he found out different.
I see, so why did he consent to the murder of Stephen, did Stephen also blaspheme God's holy law? Or the others the Pharisees murdered? What of the Prophets before them, were they also murdered because they "blasphemed" against God's own Law?

What did God's own Law say about the Messiah? You see Post, if you had Zeal for the Word you would know that the Pharisees DIDN'T know God's Law because, as Jesus said, they had created their own law. Jesus and the disciples broke "THEIR LAW", blasphemed "THEIR RELIGION". "We have a Law" they said, but there wasn't one place in the entire Law and Prophets that condemned Jesus.

Why did they think Jesus was guilty of breaking God's Laws when Jesus clearly never broke God's Laws. He broke their Laws, their Doctrines created from the Commandments of man as Jesus said.

Your position is so hypocritical and simply rejects what the Bible teaches.

You guys preach that the Pharisees were following God's Laws with "ZEAL".

John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.



39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.


If Paul was "Zealous" of the Word's of God he would have known Jesus like Zechariahs and the Wise men did. Because it was God's Word that testified of Him. But he wasn't and he said as much.

Gal. 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

If you had "Zeal" for the Word instead of the traditions of the religions of the land, you would know the truth about the Levite Priests, the Pharisees, because The Word which became Flesh prophesied of their false religion over and over in the OT, and Jesus warned and described them for us many times.

Just because you don't believe in this God, doesn't make His Word Void. As Paul taught.


Rom. 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?

2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.


3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.


They were given the written instructions of God. They just didn't preach or follow them.

They HAD THE COMMANDMENTS, they just didn't keep them. This is why they didn't know God, or His son when He came.


John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Zechariahs had His Commandments and kept them as Luke taught. And Jesus manifested Himself as promised.

I don't agree with your religion because for it to stand, one must first reject much of the Word's of God. I believe if our traditions cause us to reject or transgress the commandments of God we should change repent of the religious tradition.

Not erase God's Words that we can't use from our mind, as did the Pharisees.
 

gb9

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Jan 18, 2011
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I see, so why did he consent to the murder of Stephen, did Stephen also blaspheme God's holy law? Or the others the Pharisees murdered? What of the Prophets before them, were they also murdered because they "blasphemed" against God's own Law?

What did God's own Law say about the Messiah? You see Post, if you had Zeal for the Word you would know that the Pharisees DIDN'T know God's Law because, as Jesus said, they had created their own law. Jesus and the disciples broke "THEIR LAW", blasphemed "THEIR RELIGION". "We have a Law" they said, but there wasn't one place in the entire Law and Prophets that condemned Jesus.

Why did they think Jesus was guilty of breaking God's Laws when Jesus clearly never broke God's Laws. He broke their Laws, their Doctrines created from the Commandments of man as Jesus said.

Your position is so hypocritical and simply rejects what the Bible teaches.

You guys preach that the Pharisees were following God's Laws with "ZEAL".

John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.



39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.


If Paul was "Zealous" of the Word's of God he would have known Jesus like Zechariahs and the Wise men did. Because it was God's Word that testified of Him. But he wasn't and he said as much.

Gal. 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

If you had "Zeal" for the Word instead of the traditions of the religions of the land, you would know the truth about the Levite Priests, the Pharisees, because The Word which became Flesh prophesied of their false religion over and over in the OT, and Jesus warned and described them for us many times.

Just because you don't believe in this God, doesn't make His Word Void. As Paul taught.


Rom. 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?

2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.


3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.


They were given the written instructions of God. They just didn't preach or follow them.

They HAD THE COMMANDMENTS, they just didn't keep them. This is why they didn't know God, or His son when He came.


John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Zechariahs had His Commandments and kept them as Luke taught. And Jesus manifested Himself as promised.

I don't agree with your religion because for it to stand, one must first reject much of the Word's of God. I believe if our traditions cause us to reject or transgress the commandments of God we should change repent of the religious tradition.

Not erase God's Words that we can't use from our mind, as did the Pharisees.
and we can't agree with your religion, because we would have to also throw out and/ or redefine massive chunks of Scripture.

post gave you the definition of Law, you reject it, because for your religion to work, the Law has to be divided into multiple parts, so they can be mixed and matched depending on the need to do so.

if you were to accept that Law is singular, your belief system would fall.

studyman, I think you are honest, sincere, and mean well. but, your self-made religion is a house of cards, if you move one a fraction of an inch, it all falls.
 

Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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Paul’s reasons why he might have confidence in the flesh.
• Paul was concerning the law, a Pharisee. This tells us that among an elite people (the Jews), Paul was of an elite sect (the Pharisees), who were noted for their scrupulous devotion to the law of God. “There were not very many Pharisees, never more than six thousand, but they were the spiritual athletes of Judaism. Their very name means The Separated Ones. They had separated themselves off from all common life and from all common tasks in order to make it the one aim of their lives to keep every smallest detail of the Law.” (Barclay) The concern that Pharisees had for keeping the law is reflected in passages like Mat_23:23.

This is why you shouldn't listen to religious man for your understanding. You should just trust Him and let His Word teach you.

To come to the conclusion above you must first reject all the Prophets prophesies about the "Priests". There are dozens as I have posted before, so I'll just show one.

Jer. 5:30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; (Not God's) and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

From the very beginning of the New Testament it was known to the "Godly Jews" who the Pharisees were regarding their religion..

Matt. 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

Quite a contrast between what the Bible actually says, and how Barclay describes them. So who should we listen too, Barclay or the Word's of God?

It is true that "many" who come in His Name, preach that the Pharisees were this obedient faithful "elite" sect of Jews who had devoted themselves to the very detail of the Law, "Letter of the Law".

You preach, as well as many on this forum, that the Pharisees were devoted to God and His Commandments.

But Jesus says;

Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Not from God)

It is this religion that Paul, as a Pharisee, was zealous for and he said as much.

Gal. 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.


Acts 24:13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

I could go on and on PS. You are trying to paint a picture of the Pharisees which is just not true according to the Bible. Not because it goes against my beliefs, but because it clearly goes against the Bibles description of the Pharisees. These preachers you trust refused to acknowledge any of God's Words regarding the Pharisees. What kind of preacher does this?
 

Endoscopy

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Oct 13, 2017
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That is right Maimonides not GOD. 613 is his number not GOD's. GOD did not compile the list contained in the Sefer Hamitzvot Maimonides did.

His list is a fail from the start. Though the Law mentioned is sound the Scriptural reference for it is a fail. If anything can be drawn from the citing of 20:2 it is that Yahweh is our Deliverer. Though it is true; No where does it even imply that he is the only source of power in the universe.

1. Believe in Yahweh as the Only Source of Power in the Universe. (Exo_20:2)

I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
(Exo 20:2)
You ignore the fact that others looked at the result and didn't find any more of them to add. Also when God created the universe He created the source of all power. In our case the sun generates the power to have life on the earth. It transfers power to the earth keeping it warm for living plants and animals. Without the sun we wouldn't exist and there would be no power here. It would approach absolute 0. So absolutely God is the source of all power on earth.
 

Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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and we can't agree with your religion, because we would have to also throw out and/ or redefine massive chunks of Scripture.

post gave you the definition of Law, you reject it, because for your religion to work, the Law has to be divided into multiple parts, so they can be mixed and matched depending on the need to do so.

if you were to accept that Law is singular, your belief system would fall.

studyman, I think you are honest, sincere, and mean well. but, your self-made religion is a house of cards, if you move one a fraction of an inch, it all falls.
Then as a Christian Brother, please show me the massive chunks of Scriptures which I have thrown out or re-defined. I implore you to show me. Make my religion fall through God's Word if you can. I only want to love the truth.

It is Paul the divides the "Law of Works" from the "Law of Faith" in Romans 3. To accept that the Levitical Priesthood given to the Levites is the same Law as "Love the Lord your God with all your heart" is not scriptural at all IMO. Show me how one is permanently linked to the other.

The preaching that the Pharisees were trying to earn Salvation by "Loving their neighbor as themselves, and "Love God with all their heart", which is following the "Letter of the Law", is not Biblically accurate.

There are some things that are just Biblical fact G9. Jesus is the Word which became Flesh. Abraham obeyed God's Commandments, and the Pharisees were "teaching for doctrines the commandments of men", not God.

I believe these things, not because some preacher told me so, but because the Word teaches them. If you can prove that these are not Biblical facts then please G9, show me in the Word where this belief is wrong.
 

Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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amen


placed in context with earlier in the book

I know that there is*nothing better for them than to rejoice and to do good in one’s lifetime
12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
 

PS

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Jan 11, 2013
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I'm interested and how you reconcile this in your mind with the idea that the Bible is inerrant

did you want to talk about that?
last time we talked about it, if I remember right, at one point you said you didn't want to talk about it anymore.
that's cool if you don't want to talk about it
The Bible is a true record of a wicked people, who in the main, forsook the true God who identified himself to Moses as the I AM, and instead they followed the imposter who first appeared to Adam and Eve as the serpent. This led to their expulsion from the Garden and the presence of the Creator.
 

Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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Talk about assume you take the cake!! You assume that Jesus lied about the whole earth seeing Jesus return and it happened only in the spirit world in 70AD. That is a huge whopper assumption. Jesus lied!!!
Have you been drinking again? What are you even talking about?
 

gb9

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Jan 18, 2011
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Then as a Christian Brother, please show me the massive chunks of Scriptures which I have thrown out or re-defined. I implore you to show me. Make my religion fall through God's Word if you can. I only want to love the truth.

It is Paul the divides the "Law of Works" from the "Law of Faith" in Romans 3. To accept that the Levitical Priesthood given to the Levites is the same Law as "Love the Lord your God with all your heart" is not scriptural at all IMO. Show me how one is permanently linked to the other.

The preaching that the Pharisees were trying to earn Salvation by "Loving their neighbor as themselves, and "Love God with all their heart", which is following the "Letter of the Law", is not Biblically accurate.

There are some things that are just Biblical fact G9. Jesus is the Word which became Flesh. Abraham obeyed God's Commandments, and the Pharisees were "teaching for doctrines the commandments of men", not God.

I believe these things, not because some preacher told me so, but because the Word teaches them. If you can prove that these are not Biblical facts then please G9, show me in the Word where this belief is wrong.
you have been shown. you do not want to see it. posthuman took the time to show you how all 613 commands that were in place in Jesus's time connect straight back to the Torah. you rejected it.

I told you in John's Gospel, Jesus said to the Pharisees " you search the Scriptures , thinking that in them, you will find eternal life..

see how those things connect? do you want to see it?

if the Pharisees cared nothing about God's word, as you have said in the past, why were they " searching the Scriptures"?
 

Endoscopy

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Oct 13, 2017
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I understand your preaching on this matter has been around since the Catholics created it, but if you look at the rest of the scriptures regarding the Pharisees, I can't see how you can come to this conclusion.

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: vn"]15:7[/TD]
[TD="class: vn"][/TD]
[TD="class: v en"]Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: vn"]15:8[/TD]
[TD="class: vn"][/TD]
[TD="class: v en"]This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: vn"]15:9[/TD]
[TD="class: vn"][/TD]
[TD="class: v en"]But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: vn"]1:13[/TD]
[TD="class: vn"][/TD]
[TD="class: v en"]For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: vn"]1:14[/TD]
[TD="class: vn"][/TD]
[TD="class: v en"]And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: vn"]3:5[/TD]
[TD="class: vn"][/TD]
[TD="class: v en"]Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: vn"]3:6[/TD]
[TD="class: vn"][/TD]
[TD="class: v en"]Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, (Whose Law? They didn't keep God's) blameless.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: vn"]1:21[/TD]
[TD="class: vn"][/TD]
[TD="class: v en"]Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: vn"]23:13[/TD]
[TD="class: vn"][/TD]
[TD="class: v en"]But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

The Jews had a religion, but according to the Prophets of Old and the Word's of Jesus and Paul, their "law" was not the Laws of God.


"We have a Law, and by our law He should die". What Law of God condemned Jesus?

What Law of God said you couldn't take a Sabbath Walk and eat a Strawberry. What Law condemned the Disciples for eating without going through some hand washing ceremony?

"As touching the Law, a Pharisee".

4 words of one sentence from Paul, taken out of context in my opinion, doesn't erase the Prophets prophesy of the Pharisees, or EVERY Word Jesus spoke about them, or everything Paul spoke about them.

Paul NEVER said He was obedient to God before his conversion.

If you can't accept this simple truth, how can you understand anything he says?
What law condemned Jesus? Jesus was born to be the unblemished (no sin) Lamb of God. He asked his accusers to say why he was to be killed. They had no answer at that time. Later they asked him if he was the Christ. He answered truthfully and the accusation was blasphemy. He was executed for speaking the truth.

63 But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest said to Him, I call upon you to swear by the living God, and tell us whether you are the Christ, the Son of God.
64 Jesus said to him, You have stated [the fact]. More than that, I tell you: You will in the future see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Almighty and coming on the clouds of the sky.
65 Then the high priest tore his clothes and exclaimed, He has uttered blasphemy! What need have we of further evidence? You have now heard His blasphemy.
 
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Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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happy to help address ignorance :)


the charge ((which was false, because Christ is God)) against Jesus was blasphemy.
Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I AM!
At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

(John 8:58-59)​

see also in particular Mark 14:62-64. Christ directly identifies Himself with YHWH

((re: Exodus. 13:21-22, Exodus 14:19-20, Exodus 14:24, Exodus 33:9, Psalm 78:14, Psalm 99:7, Exodus 34:5, Exodus 40:34-38, Numbers 9:15-22, Deuteronomy 31:15, 1 Kings 8:10-11, Ezekiel 10:3, Ezekiel 1:4, Ezekiel 1:28, Isaiah 4:5, Ezekiel 30:3, Joel 2:2, Nahum 1:3, Zepheniah 1:15, Isaiah 19:1, 2 Samuel 22:12, Job 22:14, Psalm 68:34, Psalm 104:3, etc etc))


the Law is clear:
Anyone who blasphemes the name of the Lord is to be put to death.
The entire assembly must stone them.

(Leviticus 24:16)

if it were anyone other than God enfleshed who made these statements, it would be blasphemy.
the leaders of the Jews were very zealous and scrupulous, and very well studied in the Law & prophets. they immediately recognized what Christ was claiming.

but they did not believe Jesus is who He is.
Why didn't they believe?

Given what the scripture say, Why didn't the Pharisees know Jesus, and Zechariahs and the Wise men did?

didn't Paul say:

Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they(Religious Jews) knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.


Why didn't Jesus manifest Himself to the Mainstream Preachers of His Time, yet made Himself known to Zechariahs and John the Baptist?

According to the Bible, what was the difference between the Pharisees and Zechariahs?

All religious doctrines and traditions aside, what does the Word say the difference between Zechariahs, who knew Jesus, and the Pharisees, who didn't know Jesus, was?

And if you can place our differences aside for just one reply, would the following Word's of the Christ have any bearing on the answer?

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
 

Dan_473

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Mar 11, 2014
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You ignore the fact that others looked at the result and didn't find any more of them to add. Also when God created the universe He created the source of all power. In our case the sun generates the power to have life on the earth. It transfers power to the earth keeping it warm for living plants and animals. Without the sun we wouldn't exist and there would be no power here. It would approach absolute 0. So absolutely God is the source of all power on earth.
I believe the Wikipedia article you cite has a section titled "controversy".
it lists some rabbis who disagree with the 613 number
 

Dan_473

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Mar 11, 2014
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Studyman,

one thing I believe you redefine is "under the law"

Galatians 5: 18. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
 

Dan_473

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Mar 11, 2014
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12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
yes, and

Ecclesiastes 12: 5. yes, they shall be afraid of heights, and terrors will be in the way; and the almond tree shall blossom, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail; because man goes to his everlasting home, and the mourners go about the streets
 

Dan_473

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The Bible is a true record of a wicked people, who in the main, forsook the true God who identified himself to Moses as the I AM, and instead they followed the imposter who first appeared to Adam and Eve as the serpent. This led to their expulsion from the Garden and the presence of the Creator.
does the God who identified himself to Moses as the I AM command stoning?
 

Studyman

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What law condemned Jesus? Jesus was born to be the unblemished (no sin) Lamb of God. He asked his accusers to say why he was to be killed. They had no answer at that time. Later they asked him if he was the Christ. He answered truthfully and the accusation was blasphemy. He was executed for speaking the truth.

63 But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest said to Him, I call upon you to swear by the living God, and tell us whether you are the Christ, the Son of God.
64 Jesus said to him, You have stated [the fact]. More than that, I tell you: You will in the future see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Almighty and coming on the clouds of the sky.
65 Then the high priest tore his clothes and exclaimed, He has uttered blasphemy! What need have we of further evidence? You have now heard His blasphemy.
So then you agree, there was no Law of God that condemned Jesus. So when the Pharisees said "We have a Law" they weren't talking about God's Laws, because God's Laws didn't condemn Jesus. So then Jesus was right when he said the following.

Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

There is no Law of God that teaches we should execute folks for speaking the truth. But the Pharisees had a long standing religious "LAW" of killing folks for telling the truth. their Law called for the murder of the Prophets, Jesus, Stephen and many others.

This is my whole point. The "many" who come in His Name, who preach that the Pharisees were trying to "earn" Salvation by following the "letter of God's Laws" are preaching a false doctrine whether they know it or not. Given that I see this truth, shall I not share it with others? Even if I know they also, will resent me for telling them this truth?
 

Endoscopy

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Studyman,

one thing I believe you redefine is "under the law"

Galatians 5: 18. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Then there is Jesus saying the law is in place until heaven and earth disappear. When we sin we break the law of God. We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. Those who reject Jesus will be judged with the law at judgement.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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does the God who identified himself to Moses as the I AM command stoning?
Negative. The true God would never condone the taking of life.

If you remember Father and Son are one. What the Father does the Son does and vice-a-versa. You will also remember Jesus rescued the woman caught in adultery from the clutches of those about to stone her to death, so plainly it was not of Jesus or the Father. The 'god' who commanded stoning is the god who tempted Jesus, saying he would give Jesus everything he could see. Jesus (the Word made flesh) was the original creator. The universe is his already.