GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

LoveGodForever · Nov 1, 2017

Well this statement only shows you did not read the OP and have ignored all the scriptures there and do not know the difference understand the Old and the New Covenants. Please read the OP then re-read the statement you made above.

May God bless you are you seek him through his Word....

garee · Nov 1, 2017

I think the substance is complaining to the shadows. Get thee behind me.

Ceremonial laws are designed to govern ceremonies as a way preaching the gospel of Christ in respect to the suffering of Christ beforehand and the glory to follow in the new heavens and earth.... our eternal rest.

Sabbath is not a time sensitive word it means rest with no other meaning added.

Some of the paraphrasers who insisted the Sabbath remained on Saturday would not give into the new era of Sabbaths the Sunday, the first day. They changed to word rest in to time sensitive word like week, making the true meaning without effect. Others like the Young’s literal keep the true meaning.

Rest(Sabbath ) means just that rest(Sabbath ) .

Anytime we hear His voice and do not harden our hearts we have already entered that rest as the lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world, the six days he did work to secure the eternal rest. It will not be realized fully until we receive our new bodies. Until then it remains a shadow of rest not a shadow of the of one day. .Again it is not a time sensitive word.

They are not moral laws that govern the whole world by which we could help each other become closer to God .They as shadows cannot make a clean conscience. God can move the shadow before the substance or bring it after.

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

LoveGodForever · Nov 1, 2017

Hello garee, some comments for your considerations.

garee said:

The 7th Day Sabbath is not a ceremonial law it is a moral Law and is one of God's 10 commandments and part of our duty that shows our love for God. You cannot enter into God's rest through unbelief and not following God's Word.

garee said:

God's Word would disagree with you........

Exodus 20
8, REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY TO KEEP IT HOLY. 9, SIX DAYS SHALT YOU LABOR, AND DO ALL YOUR WORK: 10, BUT THE SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD THY GOD: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: ,<why>11, FOR IN SIX DAYS THE LORD MADE THE HEAVEN AND EARTH, THE SEA, AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM IS, AND RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY: WHEREFORE GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY and HALLOWED IT (Origin; Genesis 2:1-3)

Yep God's commandment seems pretty time sensitive to me.

garee said:

Please show one scripture from God's Word that says that the 4th commandment is abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day? Sunday worship is a teaching and tradition of man that breaks the commandment of God. Jesus says that if we knowingly follow the teachings and traditions of men that break God's commandments we are not following God. Who should we believe and follow the teachings and traditions of man or the Word of God? Jesus says if you love me keep my commandments. If we brake God's Law we do not show our love to God or man. If we brake one we are guilty before God of breaking them all and do not know him (James 2:8-12; 1 John 3:3-9)

garee said:

God's Law is the standard of sin and righteousness and are a part of the Old and New Covenants and the judgement to come. If we break any of them we stand guilty before God in sin. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin have not seen or known God and will not be in His Kingdom. (Hebrews 10:26-27; 6:4-8; 1 John 2:2-4). We are only saved by God's grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God lest any man should boast. However God's Word says if your faith does not have the fruit of obedience your faith is dead and you are still in your sins and do not know God (Ephesians 2:8-10; Matthew 7:17-27; Romans 13:8-10; 1 John 2:2-4: 1 John 3:3-9; Hebrews 10:26-27; James 2:18; 20; 26)

Faith that works by love is the victory that overcomes the world because love is the fulfilling (doing) of the law in those that walk by faith in the Spirit (Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; 1 John 3:3-9; Romans 8:1-4). If we do not love we do not know God and are still in our sins...

Who do we believe God or man?

PS.... Hebrews 10 is talking about the ceremonial laws of Moses not God's 10 commandments (Read the OP)

crossnote · Nov 2, 2017

If a person is not resting in the finished work of Jesus they are breaking the True Sabbath...the one the shadow Sabbath pointed to.

Hebrews 10:1 KJVS
[1] For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

LoveGodForever · Nov 2, 2017

crossnote said:

Hi crossnote,

So nice to meet you and thanks very much for your post. Please read post # 363 above yours here as well as the content applies also to your post. Please also read the OP as it also addresses your post.

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word

LoveGodForever · Nov 2, 2017

Enow said:

Unbelief is not believing and following God's Word and following the teachings and traditions of man that break the commandments of God (Matthew 15:3-9). If God asks us to do something and we do not do it does it show faith or unbelief? Let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou might be justified in thy sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged. Jesus says;If any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejects me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Who should we believe God or man? The teachings and traditions of man that break the commandments of God, or God's Word? If we believe God we will follow him who loves all. If we do not believe God we will not follow what he says. This is unbelief.

Enow said:

We follow God because we love him and because we believe and have faith in His Word. He bids us follow so we follow. Those that do not follow him have not seen him or know him.

LoveGodForever · Nov 2, 2017

Studyman said:

Thanks very much Studyman for sharing your post. I have just taken your post and added a little to it but its pretty much the same as posted already. I like this post as it shows some nice scriptures showing parallels between mainstream religion of the days of Jesus versus mainstream religion of today and shows they are the same. Please take some time to read for those that are interested.............

THERE IS NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN - GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN

The very same topics that we discuss here was also discussed in the day of Jesus. The mainstream preachers of Christ's time all claimed to be Children of God because their claim was that they were the Children of Abraham right? This was their claim to being God's people.

JOHN 8
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say thou, Ye shall be made free?

They claimed belief on the God of Abraham, they claimed to be in bondage to no man. But what did Jesus tell them...............?

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever commits sin is the servant of sin.

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

There is more on this engagement between Jesus and the Mainstream God of Abraham preachers of His time in John 8.

Certainly the Pharisees studied the bible as it existed then. AS did Jesus.

Luke 24:27
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Yet these two factions, Jesus and the Mainstream preachers of His time had almost opposite understandings of the Bible.

It is fair to say not all Jews of that time had the same understanding as the Mainstream Preachers.

Luke 1:5
There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

6And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

So there seems to be a trend here.

The Mainstream Preachers claimed to be God's people, they read God's Words, yet they "Transgressed the Commandments of God by their own doctrines and traditions." (Matthew 15:3-9)

Yet there is no indication that Zacharias or Jesus did this and followed them.

So we have one example of understanding that was gained by study in obedience to the instructions in God's Word, ( Zacharias and Jesus)

And another example of study in disobedience to the instructions of God's Word. (Mainstream preachers of that time)

There were more than just Zacharias.

Matthew 2:1
Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

2Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

Here is another example of people who had a completely different understanding than the Mainstream preachers of that time. Is it wrong to assume that they, like Zacharias, also studied in obedience to the instruction?

And Peter, which side of this topic did he fall on?

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

33When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.

Now why was it that the Jews sought to persecute Jesus and the prophets? It was because they refused to obey the instruction of God, and created their own instructions, and the other example did not.

So fast forward to today. We have a Mainstream Christian teaching that "Transgresses the Commandments of God by their own traditions and doctrines."

This is not a judgment, rather, a simple fact.

It is Mainstream Christian Tradition to transgress God's Sabbath Commandment and replace it with the Catholic Sabbath (Sunday worship). It is Mainstream Christian Tradition to create images of God in the likeness of some long haired men's shampoo model, transgressing the first and greatest commandment.
It is Mainstream Christian Tradition to transgress God's Food Laws, and create their own definition of clean and unclean.

So it seems that even today, if a person studies in obedience to God's simple instructions he see's the scripture one way.

If a person studies scripture in disobedience following the traditions and teachings of man in place of God's Word and to God's simple instructions, he sees the scripture in another way.

I believe what Peter taught, that the Holy Spirit (Spirit of Truth) is given to those who do not "Transgress the Commandments of God by their own religious doctrines and traditions.

But I also know from Peter and Jesus that this belief will infuriate "many" who come in Christ's/God's name.

23 "When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them."

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endures to the end shall be saved."

My hope is that you might consider these words and understand.

John 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. (Is it evil or righteous to transgress the commandments of God by doctrines and traditions of men?)

20For every one that doeth evil (Transgress God's Commandments by their own Traditions) hates the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Is this why the Mainstream preachers of Peters time set about to kill or silence Peter, so he wouldn't expose their transgression of God's Commandments?

21But he that does truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest,.(let your light shine) that they are wrought in God.

So a circle complete once again. Those who live a doctrine created (wrought) by God have a different understanding than those who live a doctrine created by man who follow the traditions of man. The above was shared with me recently by a friend. I hope it was a blessing to you as it was for me.

Now the important question is who should we obey God or man...............?

The Jews (Pharisees/Lawyers) had placed so many restrictions on the Sabbath commandment through there man made traditions that it had become a burden to the people and was nearly impossible to keep (Luke 13:14; John 5:10-18; 9:16; etc.).

This was never how the Sabbath was to be kept. What did Jesus teach us about the Sabbath? Let's look to the Word of God.....

1. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)
2. Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind (Mark 2:27)
3. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28)
4. If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4)
5. It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all (James 2:8-12)
6. Breaking it is sin (1 John 3:4)
7. God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded (Rev 14:12; Rev 22:14; Eze 20:20)
8. Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; 1 Cor 11:1; Eph 5:1-21; Pet 2:20-22)
9. The Apostle kept the Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

God’s Law in the NC is written on our hearts it is through love and it is love that fulfills God’s Law in us as we walk not after the flesh but after the spirit and is why Jesus says f you love me keep my commandments. (John 14:15; John 15:10). If we knowingly and willfully break one of God’s commandments we commit sin (1 John 3:4). This includes the 7th Day Sabbath which Jesus made for us and commands us to keep as a holy day.

God gives us the other six days to labor and work and do whatever we like. We worship God everyday but the 7th Day God says is a Holy day that God has made for His people. Jesus is the maker of this day. It is the "Lords Day" and God has commanded us to keep it Holy (Mark 2:27-28; Exodus 20:8-11). The Sabbath is a sign that we worship the only true God of creation (Ezekiel 20:12). We follow Jesus because we love him (John 14:15;15:10). Love is the fulfilling of God's Law in us as we walk by faith in the Spirit.

Sunday worship is a teaching and tradition of man that breaks the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we knowingly follow the teachings and traditions of men that break God's commandments we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9). Who should we believe and follow the teachings and traditions of man or the Word of God? Jesus says if you love me keep my commandments. If we brake God's Law we do not show our love to God or man. If we brake one we are guilty before God of breaking them all and do not know him (James 2:8-12; 1 John 3:3-9).

Who do we believe the teachings and traditions of man or the Word of God? Who do we follow the traditions of man or the Word of God? Do we follow the mainstream religions of the day or the Word of God? Jesus says; Other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. God has his people in all the Churches........

Jesus is calling us as the true shepherd back to His Word because the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

God's sheep hear His voice...........

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

IamWhoIam · Nov 2, 2017

LoveGodForever said:

You are correct I didn't fully understand your opening post, I apologize,

Question do you believe the resurrection was on the 7th day sabbath?

valiant · Nov 2, 2017

In the epistles of Paul the Sabbath is mentioned only once.

There it says, 'let no one judge you concerning ---Sabbaths' (Col. 2.16) which are a mere shadow of things to come.'

Our friends above would have mentioned it in every epistle.

QED

Studyman · Nov 2, 2017

valiant said:

God's Sabbath is not a tradition of men or rudiment of the world.. If you don't know these things, then why should I let you judge me.

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

And for the record "Sabbath" is mentioned 147 times in KJV. 55 times in the New Testament. In contrast the man made tradition of Christmas is never mentioned, prophesied about, or discussed in the entire Bible. Yet it is by far the Largest religious celebration in North America and maybe the world. In fact, the only time anything that even resembles Chrsitmas is mentioned is in;

Jeremiah 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

Biblical reality is Fascinating isn't it.

gb9 · Nov 2, 2017

Studyman said:

that chapter in Jeremiah was describing how idols are made, and how silly it is to worship them.

now, if someone puts up a Christmas tree, and bows down and worships it, that is pagan and sinfull.

if one puts up a tree, and celebrates the Birth of Christ, and gives gifts in the sprit of the wise men, then nothing wrong with that.

yes, I know the tree thing has pagan roots, Jesus was most likely not born on the 25th of December, and the wise men were not at the manger, they came later.

see, I actually , you know, study.

Hizikyah · Nov 2, 2017

gb9 said:

But YHWH says, "You must not worship YHWH your Father in their way," We can not repurpose pagan rituals and say we are doing them to Yah.

Deuteronomy 12:29-32, “When YHWH your Father cuts off the nations from in front of you, and you displace them and live in their land, Be careful not to be ensnared into following them by asking about their gods (elohim), saying: How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do the same. You must not worship YHWH your Father in their way, for every abomination to YHWH, which He hates, they have done to their gods . They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods. Whatsoever I command you, be careful to observe and do it, you shall not add to it, nor take away from it.”

THankfully for us He did gives us 7 Holidays to celebrate the Messiah, in ways founded by Yah, focused 100$ on Yahshua/Jesus, not pagan rituals repurposed

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Fulfilled already- To be fulfilled in the future

1. Passover/First-fruits – Yahshua's Sacrifice(Passover), burial and resurrection (First Fruits – presenting Himself to YHWH)
2. Feast of Unleavened Bread – Removal of sin by Yahshua's perfect work as the Passover Sacrifice
3. Feast of Weeks – The blessing Holy Spirit of YHWH, coming into our lives stronger than ever
4. Feast of Trumpets – Yahshua's return and gathering of the Saints
5. Day of Atonement – Yahshua leads the army of YHWH to destroy evil rulers of this world and satan is chained for 1,000 years
6. Feast of Tabernacles – Yahshua dwells on earth for 1,000 years teaching truth and righteousness
7. The Last Great Day – satan is loosed and swiftly destroyed, the Kingdom of YHWH reigns forever[/FONT]

Grandpa · Nov 2, 2017

Studyman said:

Grandpa said:

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

How did Jesus becoming our High Priest fulfill "Thou shall not Commit Adultery"

How did Jesus becoming our High Priest fulfill the Levitical Priesthood.

You should be able to answer these easy questions given you are a preacher of God's Word.

Did God's Priesthood pass, or did it change? You should be able to answer this question.

Has all been fulfilled? Did Jesus 2nd coming happen, has the great throne judgment taken place? No Grand Pa, these things have not been fulfilled, the same earth that Jesus walked on is the same earth that you and I walk on. So given these undisputable truths, and given Christ's Word you quoted, the Law is still here, but the Levitical Priesthood Sacrificial "Works and Deeds of the Law" for remission of sins has been changed. No longer is the flesh "Justified by Works of the Law" this priesthood has changed and we are now "Justified by Grace, through Faith of/in Jesus Christ. How can you not know these truths?

[/COLOR]

I am not a Levitical Priest, and I am not the High Priest, so the Levitical Priesthood doesn't concern me. Jesus is my High Priest. So apart from the Levitical Priesthood, am I to preach to people that they shouldn't obey God's Commandments? Of course not. And given that Jesus is my High Priest, should I continue to teach the sacrifice of goats for remission of sins? Hoe foolish is it to clump all of God's Commandments along with the Levitical Priesthood.

Well there isn't "So Many" classifications. There is the definition of sin and there is a Priesthood charged with administering this definition, and with dealing with the remission of sins. The Priesthood, which deals with administration of God's Word and deals with the remissions of sins changed when our Messiah came.

But there is no where in the Bible that preaches the definition of sin has changed. This preaching comes from man and not from God. That is why it is so frustrating to you trying to defend your mainstream Doctrines and traditions with the Bible, just as it was for the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time.

If you "Walked as Jesus Walked" you would receive the Spirit of Truth and you would have a completely different take on God's Word. No longer would it be necessary for you to cherry pick, reject, ignore, omit scriptures. Because EVERY word of God agree with EVERY other Word of God. Much easier to let the Word create your doctrine, than to use the Word to defend man's religious traditions.

Yes, that is Catholic doctrine and by extension, your preaching to be sure. But Heb. 7 Separates them, Gal. 3:19 separates them, Abraham had God's Laws, but he didn't have the Levitical Priesthood as Levi wasn't born yet. So if your preaching is true, then Abraham would have had "The Whole" law because they can't be separated, but the scriptures clearly say He was justified "Without the Works of the Law" of justification that was ADDED 430 years after Abraham. Since you are a preacher, you should know this stuff Grandpa.

Well Jesus did say "MANY" would come in His name to deceive, and they would deceive "Many". And He did say His Path was difficult and few would be on it. So just because most people adhere to your preachi8ng, and few people actually follow the Bible, that is no reason for me to reject God's Word.

Matt. 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which?

Well, doesn't he know they are all one clump? There is no "Which" right?

What did Jesus tell Him?

Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, etc.

Any mention of bringing a goat so your sins can be forgiven? Why not? Any mention of the part of God's Law that has to do specifically with Levite priest's, you know the part that was "ADDED" to the Laws Abraham kept 430 years after Abraham according to Paul in Gal. 3:19?? You preach how ridiculous it is to separate God's Law when Jesus did just that.

No Grandpa,

The scriptures wreck Mainstream Christian teaching. You never answer any point or question I ask, you just keep moving the bar and changing the subject and moving on to the next scripture. Just once it would be good for you address my post instead of blowing it off because it goes against your church traditions.

This stuff is important don't you think?

That sure is a lot junk to answer some yes or no questions... Lot of twisting and misunderstanding.

But its what you must do in order to continue in your twisted philosophy. Deflect and confuse and twist.

All your questions are super easy to answer. But you can't see the simplicity that is in the scriptures. Even when I show you how silly your philosophy is you write up a whole bunch of un-related stuff. Do you think you answered any of the questions I asked?

It is the height of stupidity to re-classify the law into separate parts and then when law is spoken of YOU decide which law it is.

Sometimes law means Levitical law. Sometimes law means ceremonial law. Sometimes law means the 10 commandments. Sometimes law means Mosaic Law.

If there were so many different classifications of law and they COULD be seperated, then the author of the bible would be very specific to which law they were referencing.

So I wonder, can you answer my simple questions or do you already see how your silly philosophy is wrecked in only two verses?

Grandpa · Nov 2, 2017

Romans 8:2 [FONT=&quot]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Oh look, the author IS specific when talking about law...[/FONT]

Hizikyah · Nov 2, 2017

Grandpa said:

Romans 7:25, “Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.”

New International Version
Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

New Living Translation
Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord. So you see how it is: In my mind I really want to obey God's law, but because of my sinful nature I am a slave to sin.

English Standard Version
Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

Berean Study Bible
Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with my mind I serve the law of God, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

Romans 7

7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet.

12 Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous.

Not trying to be rude, just honest, your doctrine is a perfect example of why this was written;

2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul/Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless, but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior יהושע Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Amĕn.”

gb9 · Nov 2, 2017

Hizikyah said:

But YHWH says, "You must not worship YHWH your Father in their way," We can not repurpose pagan rituals and say we are doing them to Yah.

Deuteronomy 12:29-32, “When YHWH your Father cuts off the nations from in front of you, and you displace them and live in their land, Be careful not to be ensnared into following them by asking about their gods (elohim), saying: How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do the same. You must not worship YHWH your Father in their way, for every abomination to YHWH, which He hates, they have done to their gods . They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods. Whatsoever I command you, be careful to observe and do it, you shall not add to it, nor take away from it.”

THankfully for us He did gives us 7 Holidays to celebrate the Messiah, in ways founded by Yah, focused 100$ on Yahshua/Jesus, not pagan rituals repurposed

Fulfilled already- To be fulfilled in the future

1. Passover/First-fruits – Yahshua's Sacrifice(Passover), burial and resurrection (First Fruits – presenting Himself to YHWH)
2. Feast of Unleavened Bread – Removal of sin by Yahshua's perfect work as the Passover Sacrifice
3. Feast of Weeks – The blessing Holy Spirit of YHWH, coming into our lives stronger than ever
4. Feast of Trumpets – Yahshua's return and gathering of the Saints
5. Day of Atonement – Yahshua leads the army of YHWH to destroy evil rulers of this world and satan is chained for 1,000 years
6. Feast of Tabernacles – Yahshua dwells on earth for 1,000 years teaching truth and righteousness
7. The Last Great Day – satan is loosed and swiftly destroyed, the Kingdom of YHWH reigns forever

when you say " us ", if you mean Israel, then yes. if " us' means the whole gentile, then no. gentiles were never under the Mosaic Law.

and those verses, really that whole book, was specific instructions given to Israel before they entered into the promised land.

did you miss the part where I said worshiping a tree is sinful? I am speaking of celebrating Jesus.

Grandpa · Nov 2, 2017

Hizikyah said:

Romans 7:6-7
[FONT=&quot]6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

2 Cprinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 8:2 says pretty much the same thing as Romans 7:6

Did you overlook that?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

Hizikyah · Nov 2, 2017

gb9 said:

But did you not say

gb9 said:

So false worship was not ok in the OT but it is OK now?, we cant put up a Jesus tree, that is repurposing a pagan practice for the worship of the true Creator... it is written

But YHWH says, "You must not worship YHWH your Father in their way," We can not repurpose pagan rituals and say we are doing them to Yah.

Deuteronomy 12:29-32, “When YHWH your Father cuts off the nations from in front of you, and you displace them and live in their land, Be careful not to be ensnared into following them by asking about their gods (elohim), saying: How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do the same. You must not worship YHWH your Father in their way, for every abomination to YHWH, which He hates, they have done to their gods . They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods. Whatsoever I command you, be careful to observe and do it, you shall not add to it, nor take away from it.”

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 4:4, “But He answering, said, “It has been written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].” (Deut 8:3)[/FONT]

So you say there is a different way for Hebrews and non Hebrews, not true and it never was;

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Leviticus 19:34, "‘Let the stranger who dwells among you be to you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself. For you were strangers in the land of Mitsrayim. I am [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Strength."[/FONT] [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Numbers 15:15-16, “One law is for you of the assembly and for the stranger who sojourns with you – a law forever throughout your generations. As you are, so is the stranger before [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. One Torah and one right-ruling is for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Yisra’yl who belongs to Yisra’yl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is YHWH our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Galatians 3:27-29, “For as many of you as were immersed into Messiah have put on Messiah. There is not Yehuḏi nor Greek, there is not slave nor free, there is not male and female, for you are all one in Messiah [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And if you are of Messiah, then you are seed of Aḇraham, and heirs according to promise.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; ‘You are my Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of my salvation!’ And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish His Seed forever, and His throne will be as the days of heaven. Should His children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from Him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness, I cannot lie, and I say to David; His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."[/FONT]

gb9 · Nov 2, 2017

Hizikyah said:

But did you not say

So false worship was not ok in the OT but it is OK now?, we cant put up a Jesus tree, that is repurposing a pagan practice for the worship of the true Creator... it is written

But YHWH says, "You must not worship YHWH your Father in their way," We can not repurpose pagan rituals and say we are doing them to Yah.

Deuteronomy 12:29-32, “When YHWH your Father cuts off the nations from in front of you, and you displace them and live in their land, Be careful not to be ensnared into following them by asking about their gods (elohim), saying: How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do the same. You must not worship YHWH your Father in their way, for every abomination to YHWH, which He hates, they have done to their gods . They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods. Whatsoever I command you, be careful to observe and do it, you shall not add to it, nor take away from it.”

Mat 4:4, “But He answering, said, “It has been written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of יהוה.” (Deut 8:3)

So you say there is a different way for Hebrews and non Hebrews, not true and it never was;

Leviticus 19:34, "‘Let the stranger who dwells among you be to you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself. For you were strangers in the land of Mitsrayim. I am יהוה your Strength."

Numbers 15:15-16, “One law is for you of the assembly and for the stranger who sojourns with you – a law forever throughout your generations. As you are, so is the stranger before יהוה. One Torah and one right-ruling is for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you.”

Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”

Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Yisra’yl who belongs to Yisra’yl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."

Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is YHWH our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."

Galatians 3:27-29, “For as many of you as were immersed into Messiah have put on Messiah. There is not Yehuḏi nor Greek, there is not slave nor free, there is not male and female, for you are all one in Messiah יהושע. And if you are of Messiah, then you are seed of Aḇraham, and heirs according to promise.”

Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; ‘You are my Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of my salvation!’ And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast withHim. And I will establish His Seed forever, and His throne will be as the days of heaven. Should His children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from Him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness, I cannot lie, and I say to David; His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

2nd sentence post # 371. I did say worshiping the tree is a sin.

do you understand historical facts?? like this- Germany was once divided into 2 countries with a wall in the middle of it. in the late 80's, that changed, the wall was torn down, the country went into one. that is a historical fact. saying it did not happen does not change the reality of it.

gentiles were never under the Mosaic Law. that is historical fact. so, you trying to drag everything back to Sinai instead of accepting the New Covenant . your theology is invalid because it is not based on facts.

Hizikyah · Nov 2, 2017

gb9 said:

I get the part where you said trees for the sake of tress is sin, I commend you for that.

BUt you also said it's ok to do the tree thing for Jesus,

gb9 said:

we are told not to worship Yah in pagan ways, I dont care where it was written that holds true, John 4:24 "Spirit and truth"

You are picking and choosing from the word, when Yahshua/Jesus says, live by every word of Yah.

1 Corinthians 10:11-12, “And all these came upon them as examples, and they were written as a warning to us, on whom the ends of the ages have come, so that he who thinks he stands, let him take heed lest he fall.”

Romans 15:4-6, “For whatever was written before was written for our instruction, that through endurance and encouragement of the Scriptures we might have the expectation. And the Mighty One of endurance and encouragement give you to be of the same mind toward one another, according to Messiah יהושע, "that with one mind and one mouth, you might praise the YHWH and Father of our Master יהושע Messiah."

2 Timothy 3:16-17, “All Scripture is breathed out by YHWH and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for setting straight, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of YHWH might be fitted, equipped for every right work.”

Deuteronomy 12:29-32, “When YHWH your Father cuts off the nations from in front of you, and you displace them and live in their land, Be careful not to be ensnared into following them by asking about their gods (elohim), saying: How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do the same. You must not worship YHWH your Father in their way, for every abomination to YHWH, which He hates, they have done to their gods . They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods. Whatsoever I command you, be careful to observe and do it, you shall not add to it, nor take away from it.”

Mat 4:4, “But He answering, said, “It has been written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of יהוה.” (Deut 8:3)

GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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