GOD is hiding information from his only Son.
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John 7
Easy-to-Read Version
Jesus and His Brothers
7 After this, Jesus traveled around the country of Galilee. He did not want to travel in Judea, because the Jewish leaders there wanted to kill him. 2 It was time for the Jewish Festival of Shelters. 3 So his brothers said to him, “You should leave here and go to the festival in Judea. Then your followers there can see the miracles you do. 4 If you want to be well known, you must not hide what you do. So, if you can do such amazing things, let the whole world see you do them.” 5 Jesus’ brothers said this because even they did not believe in him.
6 Jesus said to them, “The right time for me has not yet come, but any time is right for you to go. 7 The world cannot hate you. But the world hates me, because I tell the people in the world that they do evil things. 8 So you go to the festival. I will not go now, because the right time for me has not yet come.” 9 After Jesus said this, he stayed in Galilee.
10 So his brothers left to go to the festival. After they left, Jesus went too, but he did not let people see him. 11 At the festival the Jewish leaders were looking for him. They said, “Where is that man?”
12 There was a large group of people there. Many of them were talking secretly to each other about Jesus. Some people said, “He is a good man.” But others said, “No, he fools the people.” 13 But no one was brave enough to talk about him openly. They were afraid of the Jewish leaders.
Jesus Teaches in Jerusalem
14 When the festival was about half finished, Jesus went to the Temple area and began to teach. 15 The Jewish leaders were amazed and said, “How did this man learn so much? He never had the kind of teaching we had!”
16 Jesus answered, “What I teach is not my own. My teaching comes from the one who sent me. 17 People who really want to do what God wants will know that my teaching comes from God. They will know that this teaching is not my own. 18 If I taught my own ideas, I would just be trying to get honor for myself. But if I am trying to bring honor to the one who sent me, I can be trusted. Anyone doing that is not going to lie. 19 Moses gave you the law, right? But you don’t obey that law. If you do, then why are you trying to kill me?”
20 The people answered, “A demon is making you crazy! We are not trying to kill you.”
21 Jesus said to them, “I did one miracle on a Sabbath day, and you were all surprised. 22 But you obey the law Moses gave you about circumcision—and sometimes you do it on a Sabbath day. (Really, Moses is not the one who gave you circumcision. It came from our ancestors who lived before Moses.) Yes, you often circumcise baby boys on a Sabbath day. 23 This shows that someone can be circumcised on a Sabbath day to obey the Law of Moses. So why are you angry with me for healing a person’s whole body on the Sabbath day? 24 Stop judging by the way things look. Be fair and judge by what is really right.”
People Wonder if Jesus Is the Messiah
25 Then some of the people who lived in Jerusalem said, “This is the man they are trying to kill. 26 But he is teaching where everyone can see and hear him. And no one is trying to stop him from teaching. Maybe the leaders have decided that he really is the Messiah. 27 But when the real Messiah comes, no one will know where he comes from. And we know where this man’s home is.”
28 Jesus was still teaching in the Temple area when he said loudly, “Do you really know me and where I am from? I am here, but not by my own decision. I was sent by one who is very real. But you don’t know him. 29 I know him because I am from him. He is the one who sent me.”
30 When Jesus said this, the people tried to grab him. But no one was able even to touch him, because the right time for him had not yet come. 31 But many of the people believed in Jesus. They said, “We are waiting for the Messiah to come. When he comes, will he do more miraculous signs than this man has done?”
The Jewish Leaders Try to Arrest Jesus
32 The Pharisees heard what the people were saying about Jesus. So the leading priests and the Pharisees sent some Temple police to arrest him. 33 Then Jesus said, “I will be with you a little while longer. Then I will go back to the one who sent me. 34 You will look for me, but you will not find me. And you cannot come where I am.”
35 These Jews said to each other, “Where will this man go that we cannot find him? Will he go to the Greek cities where our people live? Will he teach the Greek people there? 36 He says, ‘You will look for me, but you will not find me.’ He also says, ‘You cannot come where I am.’ What does this mean?”
Jesus Talks About the Holy Spirit
37 The last day of the festival came. It was the most important day. On that day Jesus stood up and said loudly, “Whoever is thirsty may come to me and drink. 38 If anyone believes in me, rivers of living water will flow out from their heart. That is what the Scriptures say.” 39 Jesus was talking about the Spirit. The Spirit had not yet been given to people, because Jesus had not yet been raised to glory. But later, those who believed in Jesus would receive the Spirit.
The People Argue About Jesus
40 When the people heard the things that Jesus said, some of them said, “This man really is the Prophet.[a]”
41 Other people said, “He is the Messiah.”
And others said, “The Messiah will not come from Galilee. 42 The Scriptures say that the Messiah will come from the family of David. And they say that he will come from Bethlehem, the town where David lived.” 43 So the people did not agree with each other about Jesus. 44 Some of the people wanted to arrest him. But no one tried to do it.
The Jewish Leaders Refuse to Believe
45 The Temple police went back to the leading priests and the Pharisees. The priests and the Pharisees asked, “Why didn’t you bring Jesus?”
46 The Temple police answered, “We have never heard anyone say such amazing things!”
47 The Pharisees answered, “So he has fooled you too! 48 You don’t see any of the leaders or any of us Pharisees believing in him, do you? 49 But those people out there know nothing about the law. They are under God’s curse!”
50 But Nicodemus was there in that group. He was the one who had gone to see Jesus before.[b] He said, 51 “Our law will not let us judge anyone without first hearing them and finding out what they have done.”
52 The Jewish leaders answered, “You must be from Galilee too! Study the Scriptures. You will find nothing about a prophet[c] coming from Galilee.”
A Woman Caught in Adultery
53 Then they all left and went home.
context matters
Easy-to-Read Version
Jesus and His Brothers
7 After this, Jesus traveled around the country of Galilee. He did not want to travel in Judea, because the Jewish leaders there wanted to kill him. 2 It was time for the Jewish Festival of Shelters. 3 So his brothers said to him, “You should leave here and go to the festival in Judea. Then your followers there can see the miracles you do. 4 If you want to be well known, you must not hide what you do. So, if you can do such amazing things, let the whole world see you do them.” 5 Jesus’ brothers said this because even they did not believe in him.
6 Jesus said to them, “The right time for me has not yet come, but any time is right for you to go. 7 The world cannot hate you. But the world hates me, because I tell the people in the world that they do evil things. 8 So you go to the festival. I will not go now, because the right time for me has not yet come.” 9 After Jesus said this, he stayed in Galilee.
10 So his brothers left to go to the festival. After they left, Jesus went too, but he did not let people see him. 11 At the festival the Jewish leaders were looking for him. They said, “Where is that man?”
12 There was a large group of people there. Many of them were talking secretly to each other about Jesus. Some people said, “He is a good man.” But others said, “No, he fools the people.” 13 But no one was brave enough to talk about him openly. They were afraid of the Jewish leaders.
Jesus Teaches in Jerusalem
14 When the festival was about half finished, Jesus went to the Temple area and began to teach. 15 The Jewish leaders were amazed and said, “How did this man learn so much? He never had the kind of teaching we had!”
16 Jesus answered, “What I teach is not my own. My teaching comes from the one who sent me. 17 People who really want to do what God wants will know that my teaching comes from God. They will know that this teaching is not my own. 18 If I taught my own ideas, I would just be trying to get honor for myself. But if I am trying to bring honor to the one who sent me, I can be trusted. Anyone doing that is not going to lie. 19 Moses gave you the law, right? But you don’t obey that law. If you do, then why are you trying to kill me?”
20 The people answered, “A demon is making you crazy! We are not trying to kill you.”
21 Jesus said to them, “I did one miracle on a Sabbath day, and you were all surprised. 22 But you obey the law Moses gave you about circumcision—and sometimes you do it on a Sabbath day. (Really, Moses is not the one who gave you circumcision. It came from our ancestors who lived before Moses.) Yes, you often circumcise baby boys on a Sabbath day. 23 This shows that someone can be circumcised on a Sabbath day to obey the Law of Moses. So why are you angry with me for healing a person’s whole body on the Sabbath day? 24 Stop judging by the way things look. Be fair and judge by what is really right.”
People Wonder if Jesus Is the Messiah
25 Then some of the people who lived in Jerusalem said, “This is the man they are trying to kill. 26 But he is teaching where everyone can see and hear him. And no one is trying to stop him from teaching. Maybe the leaders have decided that he really is the Messiah. 27 But when the real Messiah comes, no one will know where he comes from. And we know where this man’s home is.”
28 Jesus was still teaching in the Temple area when he said loudly, “Do you really know me and where I am from? I am here, but not by my own decision. I was sent by one who is very real. But you don’t know him. 29 I know him because I am from him. He is the one who sent me.”
30 When Jesus said this, the people tried to grab him. But no one was able even to touch him, because the right time for him had not yet come. 31 But many of the people believed in Jesus. They said, “We are waiting for the Messiah to come. When he comes, will he do more miraculous signs than this man has done?”
The Jewish Leaders Try to Arrest Jesus
32 The Pharisees heard what the people were saying about Jesus. So the leading priests and the Pharisees sent some Temple police to arrest him. 33 Then Jesus said, “I will be with you a little while longer. Then I will go back to the one who sent me. 34 You will look for me, but you will not find me. And you cannot come where I am.”
35 These Jews said to each other, “Where will this man go that we cannot find him? Will he go to the Greek cities where our people live? Will he teach the Greek people there? 36 He says, ‘You will look for me, but you will not find me.’ He also says, ‘You cannot come where I am.’ What does this mean?”
Jesus Talks About the Holy Spirit
37 The last day of the festival came. It was the most important day. On that day Jesus stood up and said loudly, “Whoever is thirsty may come to me and drink. 38 If anyone believes in me, rivers of living water will flow out from their heart. That is what the Scriptures say.” 39 Jesus was talking about the Spirit. The Spirit had not yet been given to people, because Jesus had not yet been raised to glory. But later, those who believed in Jesus would receive the Spirit.
The People Argue About Jesus
40 When the people heard the things that Jesus said, some of them said, “This man really is the Prophet.[a]”
41 Other people said, “He is the Messiah.”
And others said, “The Messiah will not come from Galilee. 42 The Scriptures say that the Messiah will come from the family of David. And they say that he will come from Bethlehem, the town where David lived.” 43 So the people did not agree with each other about Jesus. 44 Some of the people wanted to arrest him. But no one tried to do it.
The Jewish Leaders Refuse to Believe
45 The Temple police went back to the leading priests and the Pharisees. The priests and the Pharisees asked, “Why didn’t you bring Jesus?”
46 The Temple police answered, “We have never heard anyone say such amazing things!”
47 The Pharisees answered, “So he has fooled you too! 48 You don’t see any of the leaders or any of us Pharisees believing in him, do you? 49 But those people out there know nothing about the law. They are under God’s curse!”
50 But Nicodemus was there in that group. He was the one who had gone to see Jesus before.[b] He said, 51 “Our law will not let us judge anyone without first hearing them and finding out what they have done.”
52 The Jewish leaders answered, “You must be from Galilee too! Study the Scriptures. You will find nothing about a prophet[c] coming from Galilee.”
A Woman Caught in Adultery
53 Then they all left and went home.
context matters
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The text does not say what he did. Maybe he wore something that covered his whole body including his face.
We know that after the resurrection he was able cause people not to recognize him. We do not know what he did.
There is no reason to believe he could not keep others from recognizing who he was. He could have traveled at night into town when everyone was asleep.
We know that after the resurrection he was able cause people not to recognize him. We do not know what he did.
There is no reason to believe he could not keep others from recognizing who he was. He could have traveled at night into town when everyone was asleep.
TheLearner,
that seems like a good translation whichever it is cause I know 2Timothy was not purposely calling God a liar but only reading what the text said from the translations He seen. I never seen that verse and was going to ask why would it be written showing Jesus lied? But the translation you used I am going to think is correct.
See people do not realize the Greek language origin Bible is way more complex than translated to English. With something as serious as truth and if people free will decide salvation, having exact details of truth is so critical. And people do not realize our English translations are not close to perfect. And one word not correct changes the exact understanding of what a truth is causing conflicts. With something as important as truth for every human being it hurts that the truth is not made known with childlike simplicity to every human. The terrors of the Bible feels so brutal when finding truth even for westerners with technology and most available knowledge is still so hard.
that seems like a good translation whichever it is cause I know 2Timothy was not purposely calling God a liar but only reading what the text said from the translations He seen. I never seen that verse and was going to ask why would it be written showing Jesus lied? But the translation you used I am going to think is correct.
See people do not realize the Greek language origin Bible is way more complex than translated to English. With something as serious as truth and if people free will decide salvation, having exact details of truth is so critical. And people do not realize our English translations are not close to perfect. And one word not correct changes the exact understanding of what a truth is causing conflicts. With something as important as truth for every human being it hurts that the truth is not made known with childlike simplicity to every human. The terrors of the Bible feels so brutal when finding truth even for westerners with technology and most available knowledge is still so hard.
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2Timothy
Man you are one of the only ones I have seen that realizes getting the Holy Spirit is not how Christians think. That it’s extremely rare and that it alone has the power to change their personality and be holy like God says.
You mention true believers as if by their will and power they decided to be the special true believers and their choice made the Holy Spirit come in them.
Man did you know that humans don’t even get to choose to be saved or not 😭? Will all the terrors of the Bible and humans don’t even get to choose. Even though most the text is filled with instruction snd storyline of Bible people choosing. The real truth is veiled in the Bible that God alone chooses and decides who gets to know Him be saved and get to experience the Holy Spirit. The world just has no idea and it’s so brutal 😭. How do you think the world and Christians would react if they were plainly told that God controls every human and Satan and that He predecided who goes to hell and heaven and man has no choice even though they feel like they are making choices?
Man you are one of the only ones I have seen that realizes getting the Holy Spirit is not how Christians think. That it’s extremely rare and that it alone has the power to change their personality and be holy like God says.
You mention true believers as if by their will and power they decided to be the special true believers and their choice made the Holy Spirit come in them.
Man did you know that humans don’t even get to choose to be saved or not 😭? Will all the terrors of the Bible and humans don’t even get to choose. Even though most the text is filled with instruction snd storyline of Bible people choosing. The real truth is veiled in the Bible that God alone chooses and decides who gets to know Him be saved and get to experience the Holy Spirit. The world just has no idea and it’s so brutal 😭. How do you think the world and Christians would react if they were plainly told that God controls every human and Satan and that He predecided who goes to hell and heaven and man has no choice even though they feel like they are making choices?
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John 7:10 KJV - "But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret."
Jesus said what He said because He wanted to go to the Festival of Booths by Himself. I don't know WHY He did it . . . He just did it and it is of no concern to me why Jesus said what He said. His "brothers" wanted Him to go to the festival to prove himself; to make Himself known and famous . . . and this is for the reason that they Truly didn't believe in Him (and wanted to see more miracles). But there is more. The context is His Death, in that it would be His Death that will cause Him to be totally famous. But . . . it wasn't His Time YET. Jesus makes this clear in verse 6 . . . and it is in context to His Resurrection . . . a Resurrection that is in the near future. There is more to this body of text than most seem to realize, but we must make these realizations.
Some of you can get upset with me all you want, but unemotionally, I bring these Scriptures to you as a reporter. Whether "you" accept my reports or not doesn't cause me to fall into strong emotions. I'm just a reporter with the only agenda of knowing the Truth . . . that's all. Because I view myself as a reporter, I am able to give it to you objectively, for I have no motives or agenda. Again, all that I am doing is bringing forth what seems clear and obvious.
As for what is obvious . . . wasn't it obvious that Rahab lied to protect Israelites? And wasn't it David who acted like a Crazy Madman so as to throw-off the king? And didn't Abraham and Sarah agree to tell king Abimelech that they were brother and sister? All of these men and women were deceptive, but all of them are mentioned in the Great Hall of Faith, Hebrews Chapter 13.
Look . . . I don't get it; I really don't. It boggles me that this level of deception comes from Holy Men and Women. But that doesn't matter, does it? God is not concerned over whether or not each of us understands every little tittle of His Word. In fact, quite the opposite, for it seems that the Lord grants one piece of knowledge to one of us and issues wisdom to another. Now, if Christians would work together instead of always trying to gain an advantage, the upper hand over everyone else, then we could combine our knowledge and wisdom and create something whole. We're supposed to be depending upon each other instead of bickering, whining, griping, and constantly complaining.
Jesus said what He said because He wanted to go to the Festival of Booths by Himself. I don't know WHY He did it . . . He just did it and it is of no concern to me why Jesus said what He said. His "brothers" wanted Him to go to the festival to prove himself; to make Himself known and famous . . . and this is for the reason that they Truly didn't believe in Him (and wanted to see more miracles). But there is more. The context is His Death, in that it would be His Death that will cause Him to be totally famous. But . . . it wasn't His Time YET. Jesus makes this clear in verse 6 . . . and it is in context to His Resurrection . . . a Resurrection that is in the near future. There is more to this body of text than most seem to realize, but we must make these realizations.
Some of you can get upset with me all you want, but unemotionally, I bring these Scriptures to you as a reporter. Whether "you" accept my reports or not doesn't cause me to fall into strong emotions. I'm just a reporter with the only agenda of knowing the Truth . . . that's all. Because I view myself as a reporter, I am able to give it to you objectively, for I have no motives or agenda. Again, all that I am doing is bringing forth what seems clear and obvious.
As for what is obvious . . . wasn't it obvious that Rahab lied to protect Israelites? And wasn't it David who acted like a Crazy Madman so as to throw-off the king? And didn't Abraham and Sarah agree to tell king Abimelech that they were brother and sister? All of these men and women were deceptive, but all of them are mentioned in the Great Hall of Faith, Hebrews Chapter 13.
Look . . . I don't get it; I really don't. It boggles me that this level of deception comes from Holy Men and Women. But that doesn't matter, does it? God is not concerned over whether or not each of us understands every little tittle of His Word. In fact, quite the opposite, for it seems that the Lord grants one piece of knowledge to one of us and issues wisdom to another. Now, if Christians would work together instead of always trying to gain an advantage, the upper hand over everyone else, then we could combine our knowledge and wisdom and create something whole. We're supposed to be depending upon each other instead of bickering, whining, griping, and constantly complaining.
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you're welcome --
there's a pretty good explanation of the betrothal process in this article:
https://www.dentonpbc.org/articles_wedding.htm
when i first heard someone preach this i was astonished, and it cleared up the way i understood a number of strange passages.
i really don't know why it's not more widely taught?
there's a pretty good explanation of the betrothal process in this article:
https://www.dentonpbc.org/articles_wedding.htm
when i first heard someone preach this i was astonished, and it cleared up the way i understood a number of strange passages.
i really don't know why it's not more widely taught?
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thank you for bringing this topic up! it's really interesting.
it's something that, on the surface, looks like Jesus 'THE TRUTH' is being untruthful.
clearly that can't be the case -- which means that this passage is a lot more complex than it appears, and there's something absolutely wonderful hidden here, a gem, for us to dig out and understand.
it means we really need to study John 7:1-12 or so -- that we really need to understand all the elements of it to know why it is He says and does this, and what it means.
so we need to start asking questions and making a list of the big points here:
it's something that, on the surface, looks like Jesus 'THE TRUTH' is being untruthful.
clearly that can't be the case -- which means that this passage is a lot more complex than it appears, and there's something absolutely wonderful hidden here, a gem, for us to dig out and understand.
it means we really need to study John 7:1-12 or so -- that we really need to understand all the elements of it to know why it is He says and does this, and what it means.
so we need to start asking questions and making a list of the big points here:
- the Jews are trying to kill Him, at this point ((v.1))
- so He's in Galilee, not walking openly in Judea
- it's the feast of tabernacles ((v.2))
- what is this feast, what's the spiritual significance, the 'substance' that the law of the feast is a shadow of?
- the feast testifies of Christ - all scripture testifies of Him - how?
- his brothers are unbelievers ((v.5))
- they want Him to go out publicly in Judea ((vv. 3-4))
- why?
- are they trying to get Him killed?
- they want Him to go out publicly in Judea ((vv. 3-4))
- He tells them "My time is not yet come: but your time is alway ready" ((v.6))
- what's 'His time' ? when is 'His time' ?
- what's it have to do with:
- Tabernacles
- the Jews trying to kill Him
- their unbelief
- He hides Himself
- what's it have to do with:
- what's 'your time' ? why is it 'always ready' ?
- what's 'the time of unbelief'?
- the time of attempting to murder God?
- what's 'His time' ? when is 'His time' ?
- He says "The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil"
- why is this here? right here? why is the perfect answer to them?
- this isn't out of place at all -- it's God speaking; it's perfect
- He's saying his unbelieving brothers works are evil
- so what they say in vv. 3-4 is "evil"
- revisit that
- so by telling Him to go up to the feast with them, they are hating Him
- He's saying his unbelieving brothers works are evil
- remaining in Galilee ((v.9)) He says then "Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast: for my time is not yet full come." ((v.10))
- why isn't He going yet?
- why not with the unbelieving who hate Him and seek to kill Him, to tabernacles?
- what does He mean, 'not yet full come' ?
- how can His time be 'partially' come but not 'fully' come?
- when is it fully time?
- what's He waiting for?
- if we think He's afraid, we blaspheme. that can't be it. He is God, and not afraid of anything
- how can His time be 'partially' come but not 'fully' come?
- what's significant about staying in Galilee?
- what's the OT compliment to this? where do we find a man of God staying in someplace like Galilee, refusing to go with unbelievers to something like Tabernacles, because the time is not yet right?
- the unbelieving prophets looking for the body of Elijah - when Elisha tells them not to go, until they make him ashamed with their persistence? ((2 Kings 2)) ?
- something else?
- why isn't He going yet?
- after the unbelieving false brothers who hate Him and seek to kill Him and want Him to go to Judea performing signs leave, at some later point He goes to Tabernacles too, "as it were in secret" ((v.10))
- how much time passes?
- why does He go 'in secret' ?
- what's the significance of God hiding Himself, in Tabernacles?
- why is this not openly declared to unbelieving false brethren who want to murder God and demand signs from Him?
- why does He teach in parables? ha!
- He's there presumably for the whole feast - but 'hiding Himself' - and then 'about the middle of the feast' He suddenly comes into the Temple and teaches. ((v.14))
- is this "His time" fully come?
- is it still 'partially come' ?
- why in the middle of Tabernacles?
- what does it mean that He reveals Himself by teaching in the temple?
- reveals Himself to who?
- reveals Himself as Who?
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- "And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?" ((v.15))
- why would they say this??
- why 'the Jews' -- same Jews trying to kill Him?
- is this comment a compliment or an attempted murder?
- how is this comment 'hating Him' and 'trying to kill Him' ?
- what exactly is He teaching, that someone would say 'how does He know letters' ?
- what does it mean, 'how does He know letters' ?
- is He just reading and they think He's illiterate?
- how would they know if He has learned letters or not, whatever ''knowing letters" means to them?
- what does it mean, 'how does He know letters' ?
- what does this have to do with Tabernacles? with false, unbelieving, murderous brothers demanding signs?
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vv. 16-53 are a big argument that ensues between Christ ((God, fully God, hidden Himself in a 'tabernacle' of flesh from those who hate and do not believe God and wish to murder God)) and 'the Jews' in the temple.
it's incredibly complex
and my intuition is that this argument is parallel to the 'argument' between Jesus and His unbelieving, false, murderous brothers demanding signs --- which is going to be exactly why vv. 1-10 open the chapter; it's setting us up for the things Jesus says in the temple, which in more detail explain the same confrontation in the beginning of the chapter. that's how Hebrews write literature.
so there's in John 7 overall a confrontation between 2 'groups' as it were:
@2ndTimothyGroup
thank you again for calling this to attention
like i said, any time a superficial first-reading of a text makes no sense - whenever it appears that God is a liar or that God is doing something that is sinful or anything like that, there is something extraordinary buried in the passage that demands deeply studying out to understand.
that's something Wonderful -- it's just going to take us some thought, meditation, study and prayer to figure out.
yay!
it's incredibly complex
and my intuition is that this argument is parallel to the 'argument' between Jesus and His unbelieving, false, murderous brothers demanding signs --- which is going to be exactly why vv. 1-10 open the chapter; it's setting us up for the things Jesus says in the temple, which in more detail explain the same confrontation in the beginning of the chapter. that's how Hebrews write literature.
so there's in John 7 overall a confrontation between 2 'groups' as it were:
- the fullness of the LORD God Almighty, hidden in a tabernacle of flesh, waiting for just the right time to reveal Himself
- evil, murderous, false brethren who hate God and want to put God to death, who are demanding signs
@2ndTimothyGroup
thank you again for calling this to attention
like i said, any time a superficial first-reading of a text makes no sense - whenever it appears that God is a liar or that God is doing something that is sinful or anything like that, there is something extraordinary buried in the passage that demands deeply studying out to understand.
that's something Wonderful -- it's just going to take us some thought, meditation, study and prayer to figure out.
yay!
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Hatedfornoreason,
Just because someone prays for everything, even if they realize tv and things you listed is sin by others who were shown it by God and they beg God give them power to overcome amd be different and not sin, He still does not care or answer unless He chose a person 😭. I’ve lived it. And I met many who wasn’t looking for God but God irresistably gave the Holy Spirit that changed them. Humans pray and pray even if change their desires and nothing happens unless God predetermined it and chose mercy. It’s not love and mercy for anyone who wants it or gives their all 😭. It’s more like billions born without any chance living out as puppets what God made for them predoomed with no chance to quit sin even if they get exposed to info like yours wanting to. Does that sound fair and just by any measure humans are taught what just and fair is? Humans were created to sin. Did you or anyone make choice before birth if you wanted to be born a sinner or non sinner? Or was it decided for everyone?
That’s what is so extreme and brutal and how is that love by any measure or standard? Is even if all your desire and effort is to want to be like you say He does not move to help them. Only if He prechose them. Does that sound like an all loving every human God we are taught? Birthing billions with no chance knowing they will go to torture beyond imagining? Even the believers who are exposed to Christian knowledge who are trying to be with God and being led to believe they have a chance but are predoomed. How can you blame them for not knowing all the sins? Even if they knew that just about everything in life is considered sin, they couldn’t stop them unless they were given the holy spirit. You know that humans have no power or choice to have the holy spirit come which is the only way such mysteries are revealed to anyone so how do you blame them knowing that?
You refer to Christians in church as if it’s their fault or they have the power to change things. If you received the Holy Spirit it wasn’t because you chose it. And you like them didn’t know about the countless sins that the world is unaware of either until it was given to you. So how you not have empathy to know they are victims when you if chosen as the elect didn’t become so by your own choice or effort or will or strength?
Just because someone prays for everything, even if they realize tv and things you listed is sin by others who were shown it by God and they beg God give them power to overcome amd be different and not sin, He still does not care or answer unless He chose a person 😭. I’ve lived it. And I met many who wasn’t looking for God but God irresistably gave the Holy Spirit that changed them. Humans pray and pray even if change their desires and nothing happens unless God predetermined it and chose mercy. It’s not love and mercy for anyone who wants it or gives their all 😭. It’s more like billions born without any chance living out as puppets what God made for them predoomed with no chance to quit sin even if they get exposed to info like yours wanting to. Does that sound fair and just by any measure humans are taught what just and fair is? Humans were created to sin. Did you or anyone make choice before birth if you wanted to be born a sinner or non sinner? Or was it decided for everyone?
That’s what is so extreme and brutal and how is that love by any measure or standard? Is even if all your desire and effort is to want to be like you say He does not move to help them. Only if He prechose them. Does that sound like an all loving every human God we are taught? Birthing billions with no chance knowing they will go to torture beyond imagining? Even the believers who are exposed to Christian knowledge who are trying to be with God and being led to believe they have a chance but are predoomed. How can you blame them for not knowing all the sins? Even if they knew that just about everything in life is considered sin, they couldn’t stop them unless they were given the holy spirit. You know that humans have no power or choice to have the holy spirit come which is the only way such mysteries are revealed to anyone so how do you blame them knowing that?
You refer to Christians in church as if it’s their fault or they have the power to change things. If you received the Holy Spirit it wasn’t because you chose it. And you like them didn’t know about the countless sins that the world is unaware of either until it was given to you. So how you not have empathy to know they are victims when you if chosen as the elect didn’t become so by your own choice or effort or will or strength?
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2Timothy
I like the way you think
Posthuman,
You say the “brothers” were murderers or didn’t believe because they wanted Jesus to perform more miracles at the festival. How you think like that as if they were evil or something? The men already seen miracles so they already believed. They wanted those at the festival to see Jesus do miracles so those at the festival could believe. If Jesus did miracles for the apostles and brothers so they would believe He is God, then why on earth you act like these men were evil for having the loving intention that more people at the festival get to see that Jesus is God through miracles? I mean why do people like your doing judge people so rediculous as if humans are born with innate knowledge of how to be holy and other mysteries?
Also did you know that every character in Jesus story good or bad was so and acted so because God made them to be that way without their choice unawares? If that’s the case how you gonna judge anyone the same ever again?
What’s this verse say?
Acts 4:26
Why do the nations rage
and the peoples plot in vain?
26The kings of the earth take their stand
and the rulers gather together
against the Lord
and against His Anointed One.
27In fact, this is the very city where Herod and Pontius Pilate conspired with the Gentiles and the people of Israel against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed. 28They carried out what Your hand and will had decided beforehand would happen.
Amplified
They did whatever Your hand and Your purpose PREDESTINED [before the creation of the world] to occur [and so WITHOUT KNOWING IT, they served Your own purpose].
I like the way you think
Posthuman,
You say the “brothers” were murderers or didn’t believe because they wanted Jesus to perform more miracles at the festival. How you think like that as if they were evil or something? The men already seen miracles so they already believed. They wanted those at the festival to see Jesus do miracles so those at the festival could believe. If Jesus did miracles for the apostles and brothers so they would believe He is God, then why on earth you act like these men were evil for having the loving intention that more people at the festival get to see that Jesus is God through miracles? I mean why do people like your doing judge people so rediculous as if humans are born with innate knowledge of how to be holy and other mysteries?
Also did you know that every character in Jesus story good or bad was so and acted so because God made them to be that way without their choice unawares? If that’s the case how you gonna judge anyone the same ever again?
What’s this verse say?
Acts 4:26
Why do the nations rage
and the peoples plot in vain?
26The kings of the earth take their stand
and the rulers gather together
against the Lord
and against His Anointed One.
27In fact, this is the very city where Herod and Pontius Pilate conspired with the Gentiles and the people of Israel against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed. 28They carried out what Your hand and will had decided beforehand would happen.
Amplified
They did whatever Your hand and Your purpose PREDESTINED [before the creation of the world] to occur [and so WITHOUT KNOWING IT, they served Your own purpose].
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