Eat My Flesh <> Drink my Blood

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phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,159
113
#61
When I read it, it very much sounds like the people thought Jesus was talking about actual flesh and blood. They then left Him. and Jesus did not go and say anything like "Hey guys, I meant it as symbolism only. Don't leave!" Why would Jesus allow someone to reject Him and therefore go to hell based on an honest misunderstanding? That almost strikes me as Calvinistic.

Let me ask you this: If you somehow found out that the Catholic Eucharist was indeed the actual body and blood of Jesus, would you eat it?
You are correct, they did indeed think Jesus was referring to his actual physical flesh and blood. They wanted a sign like what had been given in the wilderness manna from heaven: "So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? 31 Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat (V30).

Jesus gave them the sign he Himself is the true manna from heaven that will never perish and those who partake shall live.

Jesus answered them: Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away" .

Also what is the bread of life? Man shall not live by bread alone (physical) but by every word that comes from the mouth of God (Spiritual) (Mt 4:4), remember this is nothing new, Jesus is quoting from the Old Testament (Deut 8:3). Jesus Himself is the word that has life. (John 1:1; 14:6).

These men had obviously no spiritual understanding:The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life. Yet there are some of you who do not believe (John 6:63-64).

It's a hard teaching because it's a spiritual teaching (V58), the unregenerate man cannot understand spiritual things: "The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit - 1 Corinthians 2:14 NIV."


So it is not a simple misunderstanding. The fact is they were unregenerate and did not understand spiritual things. Why would Jesus couch spiritual meanings of his parables..isn't that unfair? Of course not. Again the text answers your question. its up to you whether or not you accept it. Remember Jesus knew they did not understand as He said this:

41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?” 43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered.

So Jesus Knew they did not understand was he being unfair..? if you say yes who's standards of fairness are you going by? and more importantly God is for Justice not fairness. Fairness leads to universalism because man likes to dictate what he deems fair. God deals in Justice.

And lastly,

44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day

Did you read that..No man, that's what it says, No man can come to Christ unless the Father draws them... and a truth just as glorious... Christ will raise us up on the last day.. He will not loose one sheep.

So your idea of fairness is at odds with God;s justice revealed through His word.


Regarding, the Roman Catholic view of the Eucharist I would not agree or partake. Christ died once for all.
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
#62
Did any one notice:The three 666 & that they no longer walk with him?
Jhn 6:66
From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
 
Jul 28, 2021
1,226
406
83
#63
When I read it, it very much sounds like the people thought Jesus was talking about actual flesh and blood. They then left Him. and Jesus did not go and say anything like "Hey guys, I meant it as symbolism only. Don't leave!" Why would Jesus allow someone to reject Him and therefore go to hell based on an honest misunderstanding? That almost strikes me as Calvinistic.

Let me ask you this: If you somehow found out that the Catholic Eucharist was indeed the actual body and blood of Jesus, would you eat it?
How would you find something like that out? The fact that the Catholic religion teaches heresy upon heresy should be a really good indication this is also heresy.

.
 
Jul 28, 2021
1,226
406
83
#64
Would you even eat it once?
I've been down this road before. I was raised in the Catholic religion (not my choice) and ate the cracker many, many times. When I saw the light as a young adult (or rather, the Lord showed me), I repented of practicing that witchcraft and was born again.

.
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,896
1,084
113
Oregon
#65
Would you even eat it once?

If it were true that the Eucharist is the correct way to imbibe Jesus' blood
and consume his flesh? YES!!!!

John 6:53 . . I tell you the truth: unless you eat the flesh of the Son of
Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
_
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#66
So, communion should be as common as eating and drinking and not a religious observance.
The Lord's Supper is distinct from ordinary eating and drinking. You can call it a "religious observance" or you can call it a Remembrance Feast. But it is not something ordinary as you will note in 1 Corinthians 11. The Corinthians (or at least some of them) were abusing the Lord's Supper and had to be corrected. Paul also mentions "the Lord's table" in another context, so once again it is a special time of remembrance and worship. For the apostolic churches it was a weekly Remembrance Feast (as distinct from the annual Passover meal).

Since Christ Himself is "our Passover" (the Lamb of God became the Passover lamb on the 14th of Nisan in 30 AD) it is fitting that He converted the Passover meal into "the Lord's Supper" to be eaten on "the Lord's Day" at "the Lord's table".

Getting back to the title of the thread, we "consume" the body and blood of Christ when we receive Him into our hearts by faith (see Revelation 3:20). At the Lord's Supper we consume His body and blood symbolically in the bread and wine.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
3,045
1,800
113
#67
The Lord's Supper is distinct from ordinary eating and drinking. You can call it a "religious observance" or you can call it a Remembrance Feast. But it is not something ordinary as you will note in 1 Corinthians 11. The Corinthians (or at least some of them) were abusing the Lord's Supper and had to be corrected. Paul also mentions "the Lord's table" in another context, so once again it is a special time of remembrance and worship. For the apostolic churches it was a weekly Remembrance Feast (as distinct from the annual Passover meal).

Since Christ Himself is "our Passover" (the Lamb of God became the Passover lamb on the 14th of Nisan in 30 AD) it is fitting that He converted the Passover meal into "the Lord's Supper" to be eaten on "the Lord's Day" at "the Lord's table".

Getting back to the title of the thread, we "consume" the body and blood of Christ when we receive Him into our hearts by faith (see Revelation 3:20). At the Lord's Supper we consume His body and blood symbolically in the bread and wine.
It's ordinary to the spiritually minded.

However, because the church is comprised of believers of various maturity-levels, time set aside to break bread and drink wine in remembrance of Him is appropriate.
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,896
1,084
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Oregon
#68
.
Pop Quiz: Which of Jesus' bodies are people supposed to eat: his crucified
body or his glorified body?

It appears to me, from the language and grammar of Matt 26:26-28, that
the night of his last supper, Jesus had the men consume his crucified body.
(cf. 1Cor 11:23-25)
_
 
Jul 9, 2020
846
492
63
#69
You are correct, they did indeed think Jesus was referring to his actual physical flesh and blood. They wanted a sign like what had been given in the wilderness manna from heaven: "So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? 31 Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat (V30).

Jesus gave them the sign he Himself is the true manna from heaven that will never perish and those who partake shall live.

Jesus answered them: Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away" .

Also what is the bread of life? Man shall not live by bread alone (physical) but by every word that comes from the mouth of God (Spiritual) (Mt 4:4), remember this is nothing new, Jesus is quoting from the Old Testament (Deut 8:3). Jesus Himself is the word that has life. (John 1:1; 14:6).

These men had obviously no spiritual understanding:The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life. Yet there are some of you who do not believe (John 6:63-64).

It's a hard teaching because it's a spiritual teaching (V58), the unregenerate man cannot understand spiritual things: "The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit - 1 Corinthians 2:14 NIV."


So it is not a simple misunderstanding. The fact is they were unregenerate and did not understand spiritual things. Why would Jesus couch spiritual meanings of his parables..isn't that unfair? Of course not. Again the text answers your question. its up to you whether or not you accept it. Remember Jesus knew they did not understand as He said this:

41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?” 43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered.

So Jesus Knew they did not understand was he being unfair..? if you say yes who's standards of fairness are you going by? and more importantly God is for Justice not fairness. Fairness leads to universalism because man likes to dictate what he deems fair. God deals in Justice.

And lastly,

44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day

Did you read that..No man, that's what it says, No man can come to Christ unless the Father draws them... and a truth just as glorious... Christ will raise us up on the last day.. He will not loose one sheep.

So your idea of fairness is at odds with God;s justice revealed through His word.


Regarding, the Roman Catholic view of the Eucharist I would not agree or partake. Christ died once for all.
1. I never talked about fairness. Not sure why you brought it up. I'm fully on board with God's ways not being ours. I was just asking why? I guess you sort of answered that.
2. I can understand that maybe these people had hard hearts and Jesus let them go. Fine.
3. I am interested in the fact that even if you somehow knew the eucharist was real, you would still not eat it. I would. I absolutely, positively would do it after making sure I wasn't doing it in an unworthy manner. If it's real, then Jesus' words on the subject take on a whole new meaning. Basically if you don't eat it, then you have no part of Him. That takes on a whole new meaning if the Eucharist is actually his body and blood. I feel like, given Jesus' words on matter, that if you don't take Eucharist, then you better be 100% absolute sure that it's just a scam (ie not actual body and blood.)
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,896
1,084
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#70
.
Pop Quiz: Was the wine in the cup fermented or non fermented, i.e. alcoholic
or non alcoholic?
_
 
Jul 28, 2021
1,226
406
83
#71
.
Pop Quiz: Was the wine in the cup fermented or non fermented, i.e. alcoholic
or non alcoholic?
_
It was alcoholic, hence the warning that those in positions of authority in the church should not be given to much wine. If it was not fermented, there is no need for a warning.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#72
We need to rightly divide the word in order to learn from God. To learn from scripture you must read it as from a spiritual God, not a human God.

In scripture, we are told that we and our world is in the image of God. We are told that our earthly food is simply eliminated, but in God's eyes what we feed our brains is retained and feed the soul. We pray for our daily bread, and in God's eyes we are not only praying that we have enough food to feed our bodies, but that the food we feed the mind benefits and does not harm our soul.

We are to read about the body of Christ and the blood of Christ as God gave it to us, not as some man gives.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#73
Pop Quiz: Was the wine in the cup fermented or non fermented, i.e. alcoholic
or non alcoholic?
Just as the bread at the Passover was unleavened, the "wine" was unfermented. Leaven is a metaphor for sin in the Bible, but the sinless Son of God had no leaven in Him. Therefore His body and blood as presented at the Lord's supper must reflect this truth. In the Bible the word "wine" can mean anything from pure grape juice to strong alcoholic drink.

But it is significant that all references to the Lord's Supper mention "the cup" -- not "wine". Also, it is one bread and one cup that was to be shared to symbolize union and communion or fellowship between the saints and Christ. Most churches do not understand this. And using crackers instead of bread and tiny little cups further changes the meaning of all this. Paul says "the cup (singular") of blessing which we bless and the bread (singular) which we break..."
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#74
You really should be the one who is banned for presenting yourself as a moderator when you clearly are not and then proceeding to attempt to harass people. If it isn't obvious to you, your opinion means nothing. And as a side note, your grammar and spelling are atrocious. Did you even graduate high school?

One more question.. do you claim to be a born-again believer?

.
he is a moderator.
Been here a long time
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,896
1,084
113
Oregon
#75
.
It was alcoholic, hence the warning that those in positions of authority in the
church should not be given to much wine. If it was not fermented, there is
no need for a warning.

My eldest brother entered the Catholic priesthood, and in time advanced to
the rank of Friar. Somewhere along the way he became an alcoholic and had
to attend meetings with AA. I never did find out whether his drinking
problem was related to the Eucharist, but it seems likely.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,896
1,084
113
Oregon
#76
.
The Passover menu per Ex 12 doesn't specify a beverage.

Wine with the meal is a rabbinical invention, but Jesus went along with it at
his last supper. The Lord was sometimes a bit peeved with the Jews'
traditions; but not always since they were his heritage too as well as theirs.

Post No.73 points out that the chemistry of Jesus' beverage isn't clearly
defined, which requires some sleuthing because he not only referred to it as
"cup" but also "fruit of the vine" (Matt 26:27-29).
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,896
1,084
113
Oregon
#77
.
Pop Quiz: What does it mean to be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord?
(1Cor 11:27)
_
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,223
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Brighton, MI
#78
-

Now, Look at this verse that will help you understand why Christ's words are SPIRIT.....,and then i can show you the simple Spiritual application of "eat and drink my flesh and my blood".
.

Googled "and then i can show you the simple Spiritual application of "eat and drink my flesh and my blood"

https://69.64.69.17/bible-discussion-forum/eat-my-flesh-drink-my-blood.200938/

https://www.google.com/search?q=and...&ved=0ahUKEwifpPnZ6dTyAhVX6XMBHbEFBC8Q4dUDCA4

Looks like he had this discussion before. The other site has errors or viruses.

Warning that other site is trouble. https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/6098869#-202
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,223
1,584
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68
Brighton, MI
#79
.
The Passover menu per Ex 12 doesn't specify a beverage.

Wine with the meal is a rabbinical invention, but Jesus went along with it at
his last supper. The Lord was sometimes a bit peeved with the Jews'
traditions; but not always since they were his heritage too as well as theirs.


Post No.73 points out that the chemistry of Jesus' beverage isn't clearly
defined, which requires some sleuthing because he not only referred to it as
"cup" but also "fruit of the vine" (Matt 26:27-29).
_
I Cor 11
20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.

22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? what shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,896
1,084
113
Oregon
#80
.
Pop Quiz: What does it mean to be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord?
(1Cor 11:27)

1Cor 11:20-29 . .When you come together, it is not the Lord's Supper you
eat, for as you eat, each of you goes ahead without waiting for anybody
else. One remains hungry, another gets drunk. Don't you have homes to eat
and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who
have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you for this? Certainly
not!

. . .Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of The Lord in an
unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the
Lord. A man ought to soul-search himself before he eats of the bread and
drinks of the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the
body of The Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself.

What happened in the Corinthian church was that the members had
expanded The Lord's supper into a fellowship buffet; thus totally losing sight
of its solemn intention of reminding them of the terrible price Jesus paid for
their ransom from the wrath of God. You can just imagine how insulting that
must be for Jesus and his Father; not to mention what it did to their
feelings.

In a church I once attended, the Pastor wouldn't permit serving the
elements (a.k.a. species) till after he completed a half-hour lecture on their
purpose, including a word-for-word reading of Matt 26:26-29, and 1Cor
11:23-26, so that nobody had any excuse for assuming they were being
served a gratuitous snack; and thus eat the bread, and drink the cup of The
Lord in a thoughtless manner; thus committing sacrilege; defined by
Webster's as gross irreverence toward a hallowed person, place, or thing.
_