Does man have a freewill ?

[lrs68]

You failed to answer my question!

I showed how God's Will was accomplished because the Church invitation came from me. I didn't hear God say invite them to church. I did that on my own will.

 

[Magenta]

I am not overlooking it. I addressed the issue in three ways. First, I quoted the verses that clearly explain that we were all by nature children of wrath but now have become children of God.

Eh, I originally mentioned children of wrath, as were we all before conversion. You give credit to man, as if he has
some inborn power to overcome his nature when he does not. I give credit to God, for changing man's nature.

 

[BillyBob]

I showed how God's Will was accomplished because the Church invitation came from me. I didn't hear God say invite them to church. I did that on my own will.

God's will is always accomplished! My question was "If the man does not show up at your church, is God's will also accomplished?"

 

[lrs68]

No. You should read more carefully. I didn't condemn you. I have no such power. And even if I did, if you are a Christian, you have already passed from death to life. There is therefore no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.

God may well have used you to draw someone to Himself. But you didn't draw them; God did.

I believe this and yes it is all God. But you can send 10 people to a crowd and only one or two of them are able to be accepted. So I believe God is selective which person He sends to certain people because of how people perceive and accept strangers approaching them.

 

[Magenta]

It is true that God chooses who will be beneficiaries of His mercy and who will not. It is no one's choice but His own, and it could be no other way. But we do see His choice clearly explained in 1 Cor 1:21 -- "For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe." It pleases Him to save those who believe. It doesn't say it pleases him to choose who will believe then send the rest to hell for their unbelief.

Romans 8 verse 29-30; Ephesians 1 verse 5 ~ Those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.

 

[lrs68]

God's will is always accomplished! My question was "If the man does not show up at your church, is God's will also accomplished?"

Yes, because I obeyed God.

Had I not obeyed God would what He told me to do been accomplished in that specific moment? No, it would not have.

 

[Cameron143]

I believe this and yes it is all God. But you can send 10 people to a crowd and only one or two of them are able to be accepted. So I believe God is selective which person He sends to certain people because of how people perceive and accept strangers approaching them.

That's why God has lots of witnesses. But it doesn't matter. If God is exercising His power through anyone, He will accomplish His purpose.

 

[lrs68]

That's why God has lots of witnesses. But it doesn't matter. If God is exercising His power through anyone, He will accomplish His purpose.

As long as they do as God commands them to do. Being obedient to God is choosing to.

But yes, in general you are correct.

 

[BillyBob]

Yes, because I obeyed God.

Had I not obeyed God would what He told me to do been accomplished in that specific moment? No, it would not have.

To me, I believe that you are making this a story about yourself and what you are doing. Then you proclaim that you accomplished what God told you to do.
But the outcome, is controlled by God, and can be used to bring the person closer to Himself or push him further away. Either way, God's will has been accomplished.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Where is it stated that everyone has this ability to believe? Are you saying it is inborn and God needs to do nothing?

Yes, basically.

You speak of flipping some switch when that is nowhere in my posts or the Bible. Why do you say such things? Be honest. I believe it is because you wish to discredit me for promoting what the Bible actually does say and for which I have given ample evidence.

I was paraphrasing, perhaps poorly. I'm pushing back on the idea that only certain people can trust in Christ for the salvation of their souls. I contend believing is a purely human ability and that God has chosen to save the people who choose to use that ability when presented with the gospel.

I would not call heart circumcision or being raised to new life in Christ flipping a switch, and it seems very disrespectful of you to do so.

I didn't mean it to be disrespectful. I was just referring to it as a switch because Calvinists tend to see faith as something that does not exist until it is granted (i.e., like a light coming on inside their hearts).

There can be thousands of verses asking people to put their trust in Christ but nobody is going to do it while in the state of being hostile to God and hearing the gospel message as foolishness while under the power and influence of the devil as is the whole world, out of which we have been called. Do you reject that also?

Yes, basically. Everyone who puts their trust in Christ does so while being dead in sin. Isn't it clar that death-belief-life is the order, not death-life-belief?

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise (Eph 1:13).​

 

[lrs68]

When God first would tell me to help someone I would pretend God isn't talking to me.
There was times I would even barter with how much I felt impressed to give.
But when I finally just did it and later would see these blessings unaccounted for coming my way I was eager to do as God commanded.
But it took a minute for God to train me properly.
He had patience and that's something that I appreciate most about God.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Eh, I originally mentioned children of wrath, as were we all before conversion. You give credit to man, as if he has
some inborn power to overcome his nature when he does not. I give credit to God, for changing man's nature.

That's rediculous. Man has the ability to cry out to God for mercy and forgiveness and God has the power to rescue him from His wrath.

 

[lrs68]

To me, I believe that you are making this a story about yourself and what you are doing. Then you proclaim that you accomplished what God told you to do.
But the outcome, is controlled by God, and can be used to bring the person closer to Himself or push him further away. Either way, God's will has been accomplished.

Coming from someone who thinks there's no need to be a witness because God is choosing His Elect would see that someone obeying God is doing it and making it all about themselves.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Romans 8 verse 29-30; Ephesians 1 verse 5 ~ Those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.

Chosing ahead of time the destiny of those who would believe (and knowing who they are by way of foreknowledge) is not the same thing as choosing ahead of time who will believe.

 

[lrs68]

Amos and Hosea were prophets in the Days of Jonah but they didn't travel and dealt specifically with the Hebrew People. So, had Jonah been stubborn and not repented before he drowned [Tanakh shows he died and repented before his death] and the fish come swallowed him, there was no one with the ability to preach to Ninevah like he could.

So Jonah was it.

Because God wanted the people of Ninevah saved, would God still have saved Jonah if he refused to repent?

 

[Cameron143]

Amos and Hosea were prophets in the Days of Jonah but they didn't travel and dealt specifically with the Hebrew People. So, had Jonah been stubborn and not repented before he drowned [Tanakh shows he died and repented before his death] and the fish come swallowed him, there was no one with the ability to preach to Ninevah like he could.

So Jonah was it.

Because God wanted the people of Ninevah saved, would God still have saved Jonah if he refused to repent?

God could not have equipped and empowered someone else? God seems rather limited.

 

[HeIsHere]

And thinking that God would broadcast to all the world's hungry, blind, naked, and poor people a message of hope, only to hold it out of reach from most people is unimaginable to me.

So yes, I believe God offers salvation in Christ to everyone and leaves it up to each one of them to choose.
But of course, faith has never saved anyone.

Only Jesus can save people, and He saves everyone who believes.

Exactly... just honed in on this part!

Faith exercised correctly in Christ Jesus is the condition.... it is the "through" but salvation is received and it is the gift.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Jeremiah 18:3-6

the thing that was spoiled was the nation of israel.

How many times did God destroy them and build them back up again (make a new mold?)

again, its not about induviduals


Jer 18 in context

jer 18:
13 Therefore thus says the Lord:

“Ask now among the Gentiles,
Who has heard such things?
The virgin of Israel has done a very horrible thing.
14 Will a man [f]leave the snow water of Lebanon,
Which comes from the rock of the field?
Will the cold flowing waters be forsaken for strange waters?
15 “Because My people have forgotten Me,
They have burned incense to worthless idols.
And they have caused themselves to stumble in their ways,
From the ancient paths,
To walk in pathways and not on a highway,
16 To make their land desolate and a perpetual hissing;
Everyone who passes by it will be astonished
And shake his head.
17 I will scatter them as with an east wind before the enemy;
I will [g]show them the back and not the face
In the day of their calamity.”

 

[BillyBob]

Chosing ahead of time the destiny of those who would believe (and knowing who they are by way of foreknowledge) is not the same thing as choosing ahead of time who will believe.

2 Tim 1:9
Please note that the fact that we are saved was settled way before clocks and calendars were invented.
This is not just foreknowledge, it is a decision and action which took place before time began. And, if it was before time began, the decision was God's alone.

 

[lrs68]

God could not have equipped and empowered someone else? God seems rather limited.

God can do anything but the point is there was only the one man of God that traveled listed for those days. And it took him dying before he repented. Even after he preached and Ninevah was saved he still was mad about it.

The issue is always [timing]. Ninevah was ripe at that moment. Only Jonah was available. Had another month or 2 went by waiting for someone else who knows if the hearts of Ninevah would still be fertile soil. But we do know that it was then and only then and God commands Jonah to go.

But had he not repented...