Does man have a freewill ?
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In God's soverignty, He decided on His own, without counsel from man, that He would save those who believe (1 Cor 1:21) the seemingly foolish gospel that Jesus died on the cross for our sins. He gave the ability to believe to everyone, and He saves everyone who believes. The logic that says He pre-determined everyone's choice to believe (or not to believe) and the companion logic that it is only possible to believe if God flips a switch are both very difficult to reconcile with the pany (perhaps hundreds) of verses that ask people to put their trust in Christ. And thinking that God would broadcast to all the world's hungry, blind, naked, and poor people a message of hope, only to hold it out of reach from most people is unimaginable to me. So yes, I believe God offers salvation in Christ to everyone and leaves it up to each one of them to choose. But of course, faith has never saved anyone. Only Jesus can save people, and He saves everyone who believes.
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They are metaphors differentiating the lost from the saved. But like all metaphors, they can't be stretched too far or the break.
It does seem like we agree on our change of nature being a dramatic change, wrought by God. So that's good. It only appears we differ on one point -- is faith something within man's God-given capabilities (like breathing), or is it something that God must do for us.
It does seem like we agree on our change of nature being a dramatic change, wrought by God. So that's good. It only appears we differ on one point -- is faith something within man's God-given capabilities (like breathing), or is it something that God must do for us.
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This reads much like a doctrinal bi-law that I personally call an excuse. I have on several occasions been out and about and heard God tell me to give this person money, food, ext... and tell them this is from God and He loves you and I welcome you to visit this Church I preach at. I have seen them come and be part of a Sunday service and seen them come back again and again. God uses people all the time to draw people to Him.
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I have not seen you post any Scriptures on free will. Like, zero, none from anyone. Specifically relative to/in context of the natural man being able to choose God with his incurably wicked heart while hostile to God, suppressing the truth in unrighteous, a lover of darkness and slave to sin under the power and influence of Satan etc etc. What I do see is people clinging to their doctrine/tradition of man which has zero Biblical support. Some say God is unfair to do what He does, and that He is an unjust tyrant kidnapping people against their will if and when He acts unilaterally. They claim God enabling people is God forcing people to believe, and all manner of ridiculous misrepresentations are put forth by some in the free will crowd. Then they lie about misrepresenting. Some of their proclamations border on blasphemy.
I have posted many Scriptural references. Do you need citations? It is what the Bible teaches, and
I have referred to them over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. I do not
need to check myself in that regard, though I have seen none from you concerning free will. Perhaps
you should direct your attention to those who claim God is an unjust tyrant kidnapping people against
their will if and when He acts unilaterally and sovereignly, or to those who claim God enabling people
is forcing them, or to those who say God is unfair if He does what there is more than ample evidence
of Him doing in the Bible. They obviously need help.
You could start here for Biblical references/citations (there are more, also):
Man's depravity vs God's Grace
I have posted many Scriptural references. Do you need citations? It is what the Bible teaches, and
I have referred to them over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. I do not
need to check myself in that regard, though I have seen none from you concerning free will. Perhaps
you should direct your attention to those who claim God is an unjust tyrant kidnapping people against
their will if and when He acts unilaterally and sovereignly, or to those who claim God enabling people
is forcing them, or to those who say God is unfair if He does what there is more than ample evidence
of Him doing in the Bible. They obviously need help.
You could start here for Biblical references/citations (there are more, also):
Man's depravity vs God's Grace
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Yes, I understand what metaphors are, but you seem to be overlooking that a tare is never said to
become a wheat, and that Jesus never said anything about goats hearing and then becoming sheep.
In fact what Jesus did say was that some people do not hear at all and He gave the reason why.
Here is another set of verses for you and @reneweddaybyday to consider:
"Free will" in the Bible? ~ Freedom is something believers are called to (Galatians 5 verse 13). We need Jesus to “set us free” (Galatians 5 verse 1). If Jesus has not freed us from the bondage of sin, then we are still slaves to sin (Romans 6 verses 6-7). Freedom is found in the presence of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3 verse 17). Only Jesus can give us true freedom (John 8 verse 36). Only through His lovingkindness can we truly make choices unfettered by a nature that is inherently hostile toward God.
become a wheat, and that Jesus never said anything about goats hearing and then becoming sheep.
In fact what Jesus did say was that some people do not hear at all and He gave the reason why.
Here is another set of verses for you and @reneweddaybyday to consider:
"Free will" in the Bible? ~ Freedom is something believers are called to (Galatians 5 verse 13). We need Jesus to “set us free” (Galatians 5 verse 1). If Jesus has not freed us from the bondage of sin, then we are still slaves to sin (Romans 6 verses 6-7). Freedom is found in the presence of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3 verse 17). Only Jesus can give us true freedom (John 8 verse 36). Only through His lovingkindness can we truly make choices unfettered by a nature that is inherently hostile toward God.
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I would say that in a way we do have free will, we're all capable of making good and bad choices. With wisdom and advice you can tell these apart. It's like there's an angel and demon on our shoulder asking you to do different things. Inside you are two wolves, as the natives say and it matters which one you fed most.
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Where is it stated that everyone has this ability to believe? Are you saying it is inborn and God needs to do nothing?
You speak of flipping some switch when that is nowhere in my posts or the Bible. Why do you say such things?
Be honest. I believe it is because you wish to discredit me for promoting what the Bible actually does say and
for which I have given ample evidence. I would not call heart circumcision or being raised to new life in Christ
flipping a switch, and it seems very disrespectful of you to do so. There can be thousands of verses asking people
to put their trustin Christ but nobody is going to do it while in the state of being hostile to God and hearing the
gospel message as foolishness while under the power and influence of the devil as is the whole world, out of
which we have been called. Do you reject that also? More for you and @reneweddaybyday to consider while you
contemplate the fact that there are zero verses articulating any free will of the natural man in the Bible:
Despite what the un-Biblical free will doctrine promoters put forth, the natural man does not have everything he needs in order to grow the good fruit of faith from the stony ground of his incurably wicked heart which is opposed to the things of God, and he cannot change himself, being a lover of darkness who suppresses the truth in unrighteousness as a slave to sin, being inherently hostile in his mind toward God, and blinded to the truth while under the power of the evil one. Those who promote the free will of the natural man reject a plethora of Biblical truths.
You speak of flipping some switch when that is nowhere in my posts or the Bible. Why do you say such things?
Be honest. I believe it is because you wish to discredit me for promoting what the Bible actually does say and
for which I have given ample evidence. I would not call heart circumcision or being raised to new life in Christ
flipping a switch, and it seems very disrespectful of you to do so. There can be thousands of verses asking people
to put their trustin Christ but nobody is going to do it while in the state of being hostile to God and hearing the
gospel message as foolishness while under the power and influence of the devil as is the whole world, out of
which we have been called. Do you reject that also? More for you and @reneweddaybyday to consider while you
contemplate the fact that there are zero verses articulating any free will of the natural man in the Bible:
Despite what the un-Biblical free will doctrine promoters put forth, the natural man does not have everything he needs in order to grow the good fruit of faith from the stony ground of his incurably wicked heart which is opposed to the things of God, and he cannot change himself, being a lover of darkness who suppresses the truth in unrighteousness as a slave to sin, being inherently hostile in his mind toward God, and blinded to the truth while under the power of the evil one. Those who promote the free will of the natural man reject a plethora of Biblical truths.
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The purpose was that person had an immediate need may it have been short on money or was hungry. So it was definitely accomplished. Also them hearing this is from God and He loves you was accomplished. I'm the one who added coming to Church and many times that doesn't happen even though I tell them more help is available to them because it is [spiritually and financially and food].
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I am not overlooking it. I addressed the issue in three ways. First, I quoted the verses that clearly explain that we were all by nature children of wrath but now have become children of God. Then I explained that the change of nature that actually took place in our lives is far greater than a goat turning into a sheep, though it is similar in that both would represent a change of nature. Finally, I said that if metaphors are stretched too far, they break.
I addressed that point as well when I quoted the verses that Jesus quoted that explain the reason behind their lack of understanding being the result of them closing their eyes. I also quoted a lengthy passage from Romans 1 and highlighted several prases that clearly show the lost hear and know and choose to reject God and the things of God so that they are without excuse.
Both those verses are directing believers to reject the bondage of legalism because Jesus has set them free from the curses of the law. That requires the excercise of those Christians' free will (and ours as well). It is not pointing to freedom from sin. These verses are talking about our liberation from sin that the change of nature wrought by our death, burrial, and resurrection together with Christ. they have nothing to do with Christian liberty except that we need to change our minds about ourselves to see ourselves as who we are in Christ - slaves of righteousness instead of slaves of sin. It's about more than our choices. It's about being new creatures in Christ who have been "created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness" (Eph 4:24).
I addressed that point as well when I quoted the verses that Jesus quoted that explain the reason behind their lack of understanding being the result of them closing their eyes. I also quoted a lengthy passage from Romans 1 and highlighted several prases that clearly show the lost hear and know and choose to reject God and the things of God so that they are without excuse.
Both those verses are directing believers to reject the bondage of legalism because Jesus has set them free from the curses of the law. That requires the excercise of those Christians' free will (and ours as well). It is not pointing to freedom from sin. These verses are talking about our liberation from sin that the change of nature wrought by our death, burrial, and resurrection together with Christ. they have nothing to do with Christian liberty except that we need to change our minds about ourselves to see ourselves as who we are in Christ - slaves of righteousness instead of slaves of sin. It's about more than our choices. It's about being new creatures in Christ who have been "created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness" (Eph 4:24).
It is true that God chooses who will be beneficiaries of His mercy and who will not. It is no one's choice but His own, and it could be no other way. But we do see His choice clearly explained in 1 Cor 1:21 -- "For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe." It pleases Him to save those who believe. It doesn't say it pleases him to choose who will believe then send the rest to hell for their unbelief.
No. You should read more carefully. I didn't condemn you. I have no such power. And even if I did, if you are a Christian, you have already passed from death to life. There is therefore no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.
God may well have used you to draw someone to Himself. But you didn't draw them; God did.
God may well have used you to draw someone to Himself. But you didn't draw them; God did.