Documentary—7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture
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No - I was not baiting you. Many, many churches today teach erroneously that the Church is the New Israel. What they mean by that is, Israel has been permanently set aside by God. The Church is how National Israel's promises are to be attained. These Covenant promises are not to be taken literally but are to be spiritualized. Many who think along these lines, also spiritualize the Millennial Kingdom. They do not believe in the physical setting up of the Kingdom age because the Church is the Kingdom.
This then leads, to an improper distinction between Israel and the Church. One is the Covenant Wife of Jehovah and the other is the Bride of Christ. If the distinction is lost, in ones Theology, it will lead to serious misinterpretation of the various Scriptures. Some belong to Israel and some to the Church.
Israel, the Wife, has been temporarily blinded by the reading of Moses but she will be reinstated in the Millennial Kingdom. It is in the Kingdom that Israel and the Church are united as one. United in the King and the Lamb. They both have different offices to fulfill but they are together on the Earth, as Jesus Christ sits on the Throne of David, in the restored Holy City of Jerusalem.
Israel, as a chosen Nation, has not been permanently set aside. This was argued heavily for by the Apostle Paul, in Romans 9-11. In the Great Tribulation, the primary focus is on unbelieving Israel, as God's Wrath is poured out on an unbelieving world. If this distinction is not maintained, then one could place the Church into a period where the Lord is dealing with His wife - National Israel and is Judging the world. The Church has no business in the Tribulation. It is completed and the time of Israel being set aside is over. The Tribulation will slam up against Israel and their rejection of the Messiah, as if the last two thousand years never happened.
The Church is not needed in the Tribulation days. God seals 144, 000 born again Jews as His witnesses. Later two more Jewish witnesses will testify and be killed and will be raised after three days. The martyrs of the Tribulation are primarily Jews. Gentiles will be saved just as they were in the Old Testament days but they are not the primary focus. But none of these are members of the Church. The Bride is in Heaven about to be married to the Bridegroom.
I hope that helps.
This then leads, to an improper distinction between Israel and the Church. One is the Covenant Wife of Jehovah and the other is the Bride of Christ. If the distinction is lost, in ones Theology, it will lead to serious misinterpretation of the various Scriptures. Some belong to Israel and some to the Church.
Israel, the Wife, has been temporarily blinded by the reading of Moses but she will be reinstated in the Millennial Kingdom. It is in the Kingdom that Israel and the Church are united as one. United in the King and the Lamb. They both have different offices to fulfill but they are together on the Earth, as Jesus Christ sits on the Throne of David, in the restored Holy City of Jerusalem.
Israel, as a chosen Nation, has not been permanently set aside. This was argued heavily for by the Apostle Paul, in Romans 9-11. In the Great Tribulation, the primary focus is on unbelieving Israel, as God's Wrath is poured out on an unbelieving world. If this distinction is not maintained, then one could place the Church into a period where the Lord is dealing with His wife - National Israel and is Judging the world. The Church has no business in the Tribulation. It is completed and the time of Israel being set aside is over. The Tribulation will slam up against Israel and their rejection of the Messiah, as if the last two thousand years never happened.
The Church is not needed in the Tribulation days. God seals 144, 000 born again Jews as His witnesses. Later two more Jewish witnesses will testify and be killed and will be raised after three days. The martyrs of the Tribulation are primarily Jews. Gentiles will be saved just as they were in the Old Testament days but they are not the primary focus. But none of these are members of the Church. The Bride is in Heaven about to be married to the Bridegroom.
I hope that helps.
The rapture is after the Great Tribulation has ended, after Christ's second coming begins, after the resurrection of the dead in Christ.
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(second coming reference)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)
The resurrection only happens at the second coming and the second coming can only happen after the trib has ended, and since the verses tell us the rapture happens AFTER the resurrection and second coming means these verses decisively prove the rapture is post-trib not pre-trib.
It's that simple.
Christ also spoke of the rapture but used the wording of saints being gathered together, and no surprise, placed it after the end of the Great Tribulation.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation (great tribulation has ended) of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming (second coming reference) in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect (*another way to speak of the Rapture) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
*(also see 2nd Thessalonians 2:1 for the same language regarding the Rapture)
Timing of the gathering/rapturing is exactly the same in these two passages. In both we have saved Christians being moved from one place to another and in both that happens after the tribulation has ended and when the second coming has commenced.
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(second coming reference)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)
The resurrection only happens at the second coming and the second coming can only happen after the trib has ended, and since the verses tell us the rapture happens AFTER the resurrection and second coming means these verses decisively prove the rapture is post-trib not pre-trib.
It's that simple.
Christ also spoke of the rapture but used the wording of saints being gathered together, and no surprise, placed it after the end of the Great Tribulation.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation (great tribulation has ended) of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming (second coming reference) in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect (*another way to speak of the Rapture) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
*(also see 2nd Thessalonians 2:1 for the same language regarding the Rapture)
Timing of the gathering/rapturing is exactly the same in these two passages. In both we have saved Christians being moved from one place to another and in both that happens after the tribulation has ended and when the second coming has commenced.
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In metamorphic concept they [all died that day bad guys in their sins] and Noah & the 8 died 2 self.There is um a scipture that says we die with Christ in baptism and raised up in honer [8 is circumcision of the heart] Noah means rest.Lam-meek His dad say he was to take the curse from the land in the book of gen
Jackson123 Having 2 know secrets seems 2 b hurting peoples relationship with god
It is important to differentiate between 'the abomination that maketh desolate' in Daniel 11:31;12:11 and 'for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate' in Daniel 9:27.
The phrase in Daniel 11:31;12:11 is specifically referring to the AoD.
The phrase in Daniel 9:27 is not specifically referring to the AoD.
The context is different.
The phrase in Daniel 11:31;12:11 is specifically referring to the AoD.
The phrase in Daniel 9:27 is not specifically referring to the AoD.
The context is different.
I agree with some of that and disagree with some of that. There's too much there to really form a concise reply to.
I'll settle with you on that the church has not replaced Israel. I see it a bit different than you, I think. I think Christianity is what Judaism is supposed to be now. Yeshua of Nazareth, the promised Messiah, started a New Covenant where anyone can become a member of the body of Christ. Yeshua came to bring Israeli into the body of Christ.
I'll settle with you on that the church has not replaced Israel. I see it a bit different than you, I think. I think Christianity is what Judaism is supposed to be now. Yeshua of Nazareth, the promised Messiah, started a New Covenant where anyone can become a member of the body of Christ. Yeshua came to bring Israeli into the body of Christ.