Documentary—7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture
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some history before that time like the star pulling the 3rd down from the heaven some bombastic sounding stuff but not that important,[intrinsic value is more important] bombastic: sounds important but with very little meaning
GaryA consider matt 42 generation and the 42 kids that 2 bears killed for mocking the Elisha guy[2 kings 2:23-25]
GaryA consider matt 42 generation and the 42 kids that 2 bears killed for mocking the Elisha guy[2 kings 2:23-25]
No, he said one generation would see all things he described.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
See, that one generation would not pass until all things were fulfilled.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The generation of 70AD passed without seeing any of above events. No generation has yet seen them either.
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How can you start a Biblical study and expect to arrive at the Truth, if you start with a preconceived bias?
You just stated: If we know that doctrine is deeply flawed and extra-biblical in origin of course we have a bias. Rightly so.
If the Scriptures are not the source of your knowledge, then how can you do a honest study of what the Bible says? You said.. deeply flawed... in what way? You said.. extra-biblical... who is listening to that kind of source?
All religious documentaries, have a particular bias they are pushing. That's why they should be ignored.
You just stated: If we know that doctrine is deeply flawed and extra-biblical in origin of course we have a bias. Rightly so.
If the Scriptures are not the source of your knowledge, then how can you do a honest study of what the Bible says? You said.. deeply flawed... in what way? You said.. extra-biblical... who is listening to that kind of source?
All religious documentaries, have a particular bias they are pushing. That's why they should be ignored.
Hello rayzor,
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And he will confirm a covenant with many for one week (weeks of years), but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of the temple will come the abomination that causes desolation, until the decreed destruction is poured out upon him.” - Daniel 9:27
And from the time the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation set up, there will be 1,290 days. - Dan.12:11
So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. - Matthew 24:15-22
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The context is what will bear out when something is to be interpreted literally or symbolically. If we look at the Biblical references about regarding the abomination, it is speaking about an object that will be placed in the physical temple and not our bodies as the temple of God. In reference to the abomination, Jesus says to Israel "when you see standing in the holy place the abomination of desolation."
The Greek word 'charagma' translated as 'abomination' is an object that will be set up in the holy place, not within our bodies, but in the actual temple. Otherwise, how could Israel see that object in order to flee if it was speaking about our bodies? The 'holy place' referred to, is the room in the Jewish temple just outside of the Holy of Holies. When the Jews see this idolatrous object standing in that room, then that is their cue to flee out into the wilderness, which is what the desolation is.
The setting up of the abomination, is the same time that Paul was speaking of when that man of lawlessness (antichrist) would stand in the temple of God, claiming to be God. It is during that last 3 1/2 years after the setting up of the abomination that the beast will have authority over all people and who will make war against the great tribulation saints and will conquer many of them.
Also, the coming wrath of God would not be to refine us, but are meant to kill and torment. We, believers within the church, are not appointed to suffer God's wrath and so we must be removed prior to the on-set of said wrath.
If you study the scriptures above regarding the abomination, you will see that the context is referring to a literal/physical temple and not referring to our bodies as the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit. It is paramount to be able to discern between the two in order to come to the right conclusion.
As additional information, I personally believe from scripture, that the 'image' that the false prophet has the inhabitants of the earth make and causes to worship, is synonymous with the abomination.
*Correction from the word charama to bdelugma.
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And he will confirm a covenant with many for one week (weeks of years), but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of the temple will come the abomination that causes desolation, until the decreed destruction is poured out upon him.” - Daniel 9:27
And from the time the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation set up, there will be 1,290 days. - Dan.12:11
So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. - Matthew 24:15-22
=============================================================================
The context is what will bear out when something is to be interpreted literally or symbolically. If we look at the Biblical references about regarding the abomination, it is speaking about an object that will be placed in the physical temple and not our bodies as the temple of God. In reference to the abomination, Jesus says to Israel "when you see standing in the holy place the abomination of desolation."
The Greek word 'charagma' translated as 'abomination' is an object that will be set up in the holy place, not within our bodies, but in the actual temple. Otherwise, how could Israel see that object in order to flee if it was speaking about our bodies? The 'holy place' referred to, is the room in the Jewish temple just outside of the Holy of Holies. When the Jews see this idolatrous object standing in that room, then that is their cue to flee out into the wilderness, which is what the desolation is.
The setting up of the abomination, is the same time that Paul was speaking of when that man of lawlessness (antichrist) would stand in the temple of God, claiming to be God. It is during that last 3 1/2 years after the setting up of the abomination that the beast will have authority over all people and who will make war against the great tribulation saints and will conquer many of them.
Also, the coming wrath of God would not be to refine us, but are meant to kill and torment. We, believers within the church, are not appointed to suffer God's wrath and so we must be removed prior to the on-set of said wrath.
If you study the scriptures above regarding the abomination, you will see that the context is referring to a literal/physical temple and not referring to our bodies as the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit. It is paramount to be able to discern between the two in order to come to the right conclusion.
As additional information, I personally believe from scripture, that the 'image' that the false prophet has the inhabitants of the earth make and causes to worship, is synonymous with the abomination.
*Correction from the word charama to bdelugma.
At one point someone tried to indoctrinate me into the pre-trib rapture, but that was unsuccessful because I couldn't see it in the Bible. Years later I still can't see where you guys get the idea there is a pre-trib, even after looking at it closely and studying it.
However, I see plenty of evidence for post-trib.
I sense that question is bait and it isn't clear so I didn't answer. Can you elaborate a little more on who you or what you think Israel is before I answer?
However, I see plenty of evidence for post-trib.
I sense that question is bait and it isn't clear so I didn't answer. Can you elaborate a little more on who you or what you think Israel is before I answer?
The 'abomination' that causes desolation, is not speaking about sin or a characteristic of sinful nauture, but about a tangible idolatrous object, which is like a reeking stench that goes up before God.
Strong's Concordance
bdelugma: a detestable thing
Original Word: βδέλυγμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: bdelugma
Phonetic Spelling: (bdel'-oog-mah)
Definition: a detestable thing
Usage: an abominable thing, an accursed thing.
HELPS Word-studies
946 bdélygma (from 948 /bdelýssō, derived from bdēō, "to reek with stench") – properly, what emits a foul odor and hence is disgustingly abhorrent (abominable, detestable); (figuratively) moral horror as a stench to God (like when people refuse to hear and obey His voice).
Strong's Concordance
bdelugma: a detestable thing
Original Word: βδέλυγμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: bdelugma
Phonetic Spelling: (bdel'-oog-mah)
Definition: a detestable thing
Usage: an abominable thing, an accursed thing.
HELPS Word-studies
946 bdélygma (from 948 /bdelýssō, derived from bdēō, "to reek with stench") – properly, what emits a foul odor and hence is disgustingly abhorrent (abominable, detestable); (figuratively) moral horror as a stench to God (like when people refuse to hear and obey His voice).
^ @Jackson123 ,
Matthew 24:29-31 corresponds with Isaiah 27:[9]12-13... these are not "rapture / snatch / caught up" verses or contexts (rather, they pertain to His Second Coming to the earth [Rev19]):
Matthew 24:29-31 [ylt] -
29 ‘And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken; 30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in the heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth smite the breast, and they shall see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of the heaven, with power and much glory; 31 and he shall send his messengers [/angels] with a great sound of a trumpet, and they [the angels/messengers] shall gather together his chosen from the four winds, from the ends of the heavens unto the ends thereof [i.e. from the extremities (note: this is not saying the destination is "TO Heaven")].
Isaiah 27:12-13,9 [bsb] -[/B]
9 Therefore Jacob’s guilt will be atoned for,
and the full fruit of the removal of his sin will be this: [see Rom11:27 in its context]
[...]
12 In that day the LORD will thresh from the flowing Euphrates to the Wadi of Egypt, and you, O Israelites, will be gathered one by one. 13 And in that day a great ram’s horn [/trumpet] will sound, and those who were perishing in Assyria will come forth with those who were exiles in Egypt. And they will worship the LORD on the holy mountain in Jerusalem.
[compare also Isaiah 24:[21-22]23, which passage I've shown in past posts to be parallel time-wise with Rev19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5 at the time of His Second Coming to the earth; see also Isa11:11-12--note these are not "rapture / snatch / caught up" passages]
Notice the distinction between the ONE "SNATCH-action" of our Rapture event, contrasted with their being "gathered ONE BY ONE" (and "to worship the Lord in the holy mount, AT JERUSALEM"<--that's not "our Rapture" event)
Matthew 24:29-31 corresponds with Isaiah 27:[9]12-13... these are not "rapture / snatch / caught up" verses or contexts (rather, they pertain to His Second Coming to the earth [Rev19]):
Matthew 24:29-31 [ylt] -
29 ‘And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken; 30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in the heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth smite the breast, and they shall see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of the heaven, with power and much glory; 31 and he shall send his messengers [/angels] with a great sound of a trumpet, and they [the angels/messengers] shall gather together his chosen from the four winds, from the ends of the heavens unto the ends thereof [i.e. from the extremities (note: this is not saying the destination is "TO Heaven")].
Isaiah 27:12-13,9 [bsb] -[/B]
9 Therefore Jacob’s guilt will be atoned for,
and the full fruit of the removal of his sin will be this: [see Rom11:27 in its context]
[...]
12 In that day the LORD will thresh from the flowing Euphrates to the Wadi of Egypt, and you, O Israelites, will be gathered one by one. 13 And in that day a great ram’s horn [/trumpet] will sound, and those who were perishing in Assyria will come forth with those who were exiles in Egypt. And they will worship the LORD on the holy mountain in Jerusalem.
[compare also Isaiah 24:[21-22]23, which passage I've shown in past posts to be parallel time-wise with Rev19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5 at the time of His Second Coming to the earth; see also Isa11:11-12--note these are not "rapture / snatch / caught up" passages]
Notice the distinction between the ONE "SNATCH-action" of our Rapture event, contrasted with their being "gathered ONE BY ONE" (and "to worship the Lord in the holy mount, AT JERUSALEM"<--that's not "our Rapture" event)
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Compare that wording ^ (from Matt24:31 ^ ) to that of the following:
Neh1:8-9 -
8 Remember, I beseech thee, the word that thou commandedst thy servant Moses, saying, If ye transgress, I will scatter you abroad among the nations: 9 But if ye turn unto me, and keep my commandments, and do them; though there were of you cast out unto the uttermost part of the heaven [PLURAL - "heavenS"... like in Matt24:31], yet will I gather them from thence, and will bring them unto the place that I have chosen to set my name there."
Neh1:8-9 -
8 Remember, I beseech thee, the word that thou commandedst thy servant Moses, saying, If ye transgress, I will scatter you abroad among the nations: 9 But if ye turn unto me, and keep my commandments, and do them; though there were of you cast out unto the uttermost part of the heaven [PLURAL - "heavenS"... like in Matt24:31], yet will I gather them from thence, and will bring them unto the place that I have chosen to set my name there."