Doctrine of Unconditional Election

[peldom10]

FreeGrace2 said:
No, a person will be saved when he believes the biblical gospel.

Prove that with clear Scripture. That would mean all who believe are NOT saved until they die. Nonsense.

Further, consider the tenses in John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes (present tense) him who sent me has (present tense) eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

This means the MOMENT one believes they possess eternal life. That's what the verse is saying. No interpretation needed.

Now, consider John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Another crystal clear verse: Jesus gives the gift of eternal life, and the result is that the recipients shall never perish.

No argument...doesn't apply.
You are quoting the basis of us receiving eternal salvation.

Basic questions.....It is appointed unto man once to die...then the judgement....please explain what that means? If you are.... saved.... on this earth...what is the judgement for?
The Bible says we can be born again while on this earth...what does that mean?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Do you really think God would be that unfair?
Somethings are reserved for our Father's knowledge only.

My answer is that since Jesus Christ paid the sin debt for EVERYONE, those who never come to the knowledge of sin and accountability are saved. Otherwise, all who never reach accountability will be unfairly separated from God, without the opportunity to hear and belive the gospel.

Calvinists will say that the "saved" are only those God "chose" to save, like it's a one-sided deal. God just does an Eeny Meeny Miny Moe as He goes through humanity. All choices are without conditions. But since the Bible is very clear that believing on Christ IS the only condition for salvation, their view is unbiblical.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Prove that with clear Scripture. That would mean all who believe are NOT saved until they die. Nonsense.

Further, consider the tenses in John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes (present tense) him who sent me has (present tense) eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

This means the MOMENT one believes they possess eternal life. That's what the verse is saying. No interpretation needed.

Now, consider John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Another crystal clear verse: Jesus gives the gift of eternal life, and the result is that the recipients shall never perish.

No argument...doesn't apply.
You are quoting the basis of us receiving eternal salvation.

What kind of response is this to my quote? You didn't even touch the 2 verses that prove what I say. Go figure.

Basic questions.....It is appointed unto man once to die...then the judgement....please explain what that means? If you are.... saved.... on this earth...what is the judgement for?

Actually, both the saved and the unsaved will face judgment, and both are based on the same principle.

For believers that judgment is the Bema, or Judgment Seat of Christ, per 2 Cor 5:10. This judgment will determine one's eternal reward, or loss of reward.

For unbelievers that judgment is the GWT judgment, per Rev 20:11-15. This judgment will determine just how "tolerable" it will be for them in the LoF.

Matt 10:15 - Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Matt 11:22 - But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
Matt 11:24 - odom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

So, we learn from these verses that it will be "more tolerable" for some and "less tolerable" for other unbelievers, all based on their deeds.

Just like the Bema. But for different reasons.

The moment one believes in Christ for salvation, they possess eternal life, per John 5:24. And John 10:28 says that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

So all believers ARE saved the MOMENT they believe and are guaranteed to NEVER PERISH.



The Bible says we can be born again while on this earth...what does that mean?[/QUOTE]

 

[rogerg]

Do you really think God would be that unfair?
Somethings are reserved for our Father's knowledge only.

God can't leave that aspect open or unspecified if He wants as to be as you said, fair, can He?

 

[rogerg]

No argument...doesn't apply.
You are quoting the basis of us receiving eternal salvation.

Basic questions.....It is appointed unto man once to die...then the judgement....please explain what that means? If you are.... saved.... on this earth...what is the judgement for?
The Bible says we can be born again while on this earth...what does that mean?

Who is your question addressed to? I don't see anyone specified in it.

 

[rogerg]

Do you really think God would be that unfair?
Somethings are reserved for our Father's knowledge only.

Can there be a way to salvation other than of Christ? And if not, them all must be saved the same way, right?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Can there be a way to salvation other than of Christ? And if not, them all must be saved the same way, right?

Only everyone who has reached the understanding of accountability. Because the gospel is offered, not to babies who can't understand, but to those understand sin and accountability and realize there is a choice to be made.

 

[brightfame52]

This calvinistic doctrine is unbiblical.

You cannot show any verse that supports your statement, and you know it. If it were true, then every calvinst would shove that or those verses down all our throats.

in fact, there are multiple verses that clearly say that Christ died for all.

You mocking scripture teaching.

 

[rogerg]

You mocking scripture teaching.

Me?

 

[peldom10]

Prove that with clear Scripture. That would mean all who believe are NOT saved until they die. Nonsense.

Further, consider the tenses in John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes (present tense) him who sent me has (present tense) eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

This means the MOMENT one believes they possess eternal life. That's what the verse is saying. No interpretation needed.

Now, consider John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Another crystal clear verse: Jesus gives the gift of eternal life, and the result is that the recipients shall never perish.

What kind of response is this to my quote? You didn't even touch the 2 verses that prove what I say. Go figure.


Actually, both the saved and the unsaved will face judgment, and both are based on the same principle.

For believers that judgment is the Bema, or Judgment Seat of Christ, per 2 Cor 5:10. This judgment will determine one's eternal reward, or loss of reward.

For unbelievers that judgment is the GWT judgment, per Rev 20:11-15. This judgment will determine just how "tolerable" it will be for them in the LoF.

Matt 10:15 - Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Matt 11:22 - But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
Matt 11:24 - odom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

So, we learn from these verses that it will be "more tolerable" for some and "less tolerable" for other unbelievers, all based on their deeds.

Just like the Bema. But for different reasons.

The moment one believes in Christ for salvation, they possess eternal life, per John 5:24. And John 10:28 says that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

So all believers ARE saved the MOMENT they believe and are guaranteed to NEVER PERISH.



The Bible says we can be born again while on this earth...what does that mean?

[/QUOTE]


You have proved nothing of your position with the scriptures posted.
Try again...or give up and start following the Bible...not new age religion thinking.

 

[peldom10]

Can there be a way to salvation other than of Christ? And if not, them all must be saved the same way, right?

No...Christ is it. We need no other.

 

[rogerg]

No...Christ is it. We need no other.

Okay, well then, my question remains. What happens to those who are unable to hear or understand the Gospel to come to faith in Christ? Doesn't that question have to be answered to know that your POV regarding salvation is correct? If you can't,
then it can't be

 

[peldom10]

Okay, well then, my question remains. What happens to those who are unable to hear or understand the Gospel to come to faith in Christ? Doesn't that question have to be answered to know that your POV regarding salvation is correct? If you can't,
then it can't be

Please read carefully;
...some things are reserved for our Father's knowledge only.....

 

[rogerg]

Please read carefully;
...some things are reserved for our Father's knowledge only.....

Yeah, I've already read carefully, and the logic of your statement is way wanting

If salvation can only be by Christ as you yourself said, then the requirements as you've described them are set and therefore, no other alternatives for them are possible.
Just because you say some things are reserved for the Father for salvation that He hasn't already revealed, well, that doesn't make it true. Post the verses that support your theory specifically regarding salvation. Otherwise, you transplant your personal conjecture into the Bible and that's bad. God cannot hold anyone responsible, or not responsible, for things they don't know about, which would then make all that we know about salvation invalid.

 

[peldom10]

Yeah, I've already read carefully, and the logic of your statement is way wanting

If salvation can only be by Christ as you yourself said, then the requirements as you've described them are set and therefore, no other alternatives for them are possible.
Just because you say some things are reserved for the Father for salvation that He hasn't already revealed, well, that doesn't make it true. Post the verses that support your theory specifically regarding salvation. Otherwise, you transplant your personal conjecture into the Bible and that's bad. God cannot hold anyone responsible, or not responsible, for things they don't know about, which would then make all that we know about salvation invalid.

That's not my statement....geeeessscccchhhh...that is scripture, verbatim.

...some things are reserved for our Father's knowledge only.....post 1873.

 

[rogerg]

That's not my statement....geeeessscccchhhh...that is scripture, verbatim.
...some things are reserved for our Father's knowledge only.....post 1873.

Well yeah, I know that, but I asked you to post specifically regarding salvation because you chose to use it within the context of salvation.

Deu 29:29 also tells us the things "revealed unto us belong to us."

[Deu 29:29 KJV] 29 The secret [things belong] unto the LORD our God: but those [things which are] revealed [belong] unto us and to our children for ever, that [we] may do all the words of this law.

Guess what... salvation has in fact been revealed to us, so, God no longer holds any secrets regarding its principals. This, I think, eliminates your defense of the requirement of first having to hear and believe the Gospel to become saved as the maladies or age of certain people makes that an impossibility for them. So, either those with those maladies or age will not be saved, or.... there must be another way.


[Eph 3:3-5, 9-11 KJV]
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; ...
9 And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Per the above verses, while there are probably still things that God holds secret, the principals of salvation are not of them.

If you have an alternative explanation, please post with corroborating verses.

 

[justpassinthrough]

I think that it is you who doesn't understand the Bible and its message. If you don't trust
Christ as Saviour, then you are the one who is "Christless", not me

Exactly, and please explain how a person can trust Christ whom he doesn’t believe.


Maybe you can answer my question that I have asked you many times in different forums.

• How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?
• And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?
• And how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14

JPT

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
This calvinistic doctrine is unbiblical.

You cannot show any verse that supports your statement, and you know it. If it were true, then every calvinst would shove that or those verses down all our throats.

in fact, there are multiple verses that clearly say that Christ died for all.

You mocking scripture teaching.

Nope. Just pointing out the truth. I would never mock the Bible.

 

[justpassinthrough]

So then what happens to those who for some physical reason (for example) are unable to hear or believe the Gospel? Do they remain unsaved? What is their end spiritual result?

Please post the scripture you are referring to.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Now, consider John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Another crystal clear verse: Jesus gives the gift of eternal life, and the result is that the recipients shall never perish.

What kind of response is this to my quote? You didn't even touch the 2 verses that prove what I say. Go figure.

You have proved nothing of your position with the scriptures posted.

Then you tell me what John 10:28 does teach.

Try again...or give up and start following the Bible...not new age religion thinking.

I'll wait for your explanation of John 10:28.