Doctrine of Unconditional Election

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#1,841
Jul 2, 2011
21,465
6,722
113
#1,841
justpassinthrough said:
No one here is judging anyone.


What we are saying is no one gets saved apart from hearing and believing the Gospel.



If you believe otherwise, then please post the scriptures that says unbelievers are saved.
Click to expand...
You are still twisting what has been shared here.
Abraham believed God, and this was counted to him as righteousness. Afterwards, he became the fist man to receive the Gospel.
 
F

FreeGrace2

Banned
#1,842
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
#1,842
FreeGrace2 said:
No, a person will be saved when he believes the biblical gospel.
JaumeJ said:
It is the Spirit Who gives life, the written word is dead and can be death without the Holy Spirit.

I learn from the written Word only when the Holy Spirit reveals, there is no other way to learn from the Word. Even if you have somene gifted with that of being a teacher, it can only be taught through him by the Holy Spirit, and understood too.
Click to expand...
Is this an agreement with what I said or a disagreement?
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#1,843
Jul 2, 2011
21,465
6,722
113
#1,843
FreeGrace2 said:
FreeGrace2 said:
No, a person will be saved when he believes the biblical gospel.

Is this an agreement with what I said or a disagreement?
Click to expand...
It is in agreement with the Holy Spirit.
Listen, I do not have you on trial here, so please stop the cross examination, it will come back upon your own head.
 
R

rogerg

Well-known member
#1,844
Jul 13, 2021
3,922
656
113
#1,844
justpassinthrough said:
Please explain how a person is saved who has never heard or believed the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
Click to expand...
They are saved because God had chosen to save them nothing else. Hearing and believing occurs after, and as a result of, that. Becoming saved is not by our actions or choice but God's. Christ is the Saviour, we are not
 
F

FreeGrace2

Banned
#1,846
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
#1,846
JaumeJ said:
It is in agreement with the Holy Spirit.
Listen, I do not have you on trial here, so please stop the cross examination, it will come back upon your own head.
Click to expand...
Hey, lighten up. I was only trying to get a clarification of your post. It was no cross exam, I assure you.
 
F

FreeGrace2

Banned
#1,847
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
#1,847
justpassinthrough said:
Please explain how a person is saved who has never heard or believed the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
rogerg said:
They are saved because God had chosen to save them nothing else.
Click to expand...
No one is chosen to be saved. God chooses (elects) people for service.

Hearing and believing occurs after, and as a result of, that.
Click to expand...
The Bible says differently. Titus 2:11 says that the grace of God offers salvation to everyone.

Becoming saved is not by our actions or choice but God's. Christ is the Saviour, we are not
Click to expand...
True. In fact 1 Cor 1:21 says - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

So, you see, God doesn't choose who will believe, but He is please to save those who do believe.
 
P

peldom10

Banned
#1,849
May 22, 2020
2,382
358
83
#1,849
FreeGrace2 said:
No, a person will be saved when he believes the biblical gospel.
Click to expand...


...and the Gospel says we are not ......saved....... until death, judgement and Christ says we are saved. On earth we are ...born again.
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#1,850
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
#1,850
JaumeJ said:
You are still twisting what has been shared here.
Abraham believed God, and this was counted to him as righteousness. Afterwards, he became the fist man to receive the Gospel.
Click to expand...
Abraham obeyed the Gospel and justified, in Genesis 12.




JLB
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#1,851
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
#1,851
rogerg said:
They are saved because God had chosen to save them nothing else. Hearing and believing occurs after, and as a result of, that. Becoming saved is not by our actions or choice but God's. Christ is the Saviour, we are not
Click to expand...

Your Christ-less salvation doctrine is not biblical.


Only those who hear and believe the Gospel and saved.



JLB
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#1,852
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
#1,852
brightfame52 said:
By the Blood of Jesus Christ, the Grace of God.
Click to expand...


The blood of Jesus was shed for the whole world, yet the whole world is not saved.



We must hear and believe the message of salvation, the Gospel of Jesus Christ in order to be saved.



For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. Romans 1:16


The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, for those who believe.



Those who have not heard and therefore have not believed are not saved.



How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14




how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?






JPT
 
R

rogerg

Well-known member
#1,853
Jul 13, 2021
3,922
656
113
#1,853
justpassinthrough said:
Your Christ-less salvation doctrine is not biblical.


Only those who hear and believe the Gospel and saved.
Click to expand...
I think that it is you who doesn't understand the Bible and its message. If you don't trust
Christ as Saviour, then you are the one who is "Christless", not me
 
R

rogerg

Well-known member
#1,854
Jul 13, 2021
3,922
656
113
#1,854
justpassinthrough said:
We must hear and believe the message of salvation, the Gospel of Jesus Christ in order to be saved.
Click to expand...
So then what happens to those who for some physical reason (for example) are unable to hear or believe the Gospel? Do they remain unsaved? What is their end spiritual result?
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#1,855
Jul 2, 2011
21,465
6,722
113
#1,855
FreeGrace2 said:
Hey, lighten up. I was only trying to get a clarification of your post. It was no cross exam, I assure you.
Click to expand...
I apologize ,dtext to voice dows not read all, the colors, not at all................God bless.
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#1,856
Nov 21, 2020
6,484
596
113
#1,856
justpassinthrough said:
The blood of Jesus was shed for the whole world, yet the whole world is not saved.



We must hear and believe the message of salvation, the Gospel of Jesus Christ in order to be saved.



For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. Romans 1:16


The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, for those who believe.



Those who have not heard and therefore have not believed are not saved.



How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14




how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?






JPT
Click to expand...
The blood of Christ was only shed for them that are saved, which are the elect.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#1,857
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#1,857
FreeGrace2 said:
justpassinthrough said:
Please explain how a person is saved who has never heard or believed the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

No one is chosen to be saved. God chooses (elects) people for service.


The Bible says differently. Titus 2:11 says that the grace of God offers salvation to everyone.


True. In fact 1 Cor 1:21 says - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

So, you see, God doesn't choose who will believe, but He is please to save those who do believe.
Click to expand...
I agree. It is through the foolishness of what you preach that people can come to see the Truth and the True Gospel.
 
P

peldom10

Banned
#1,858
May 22, 2020
2,382
358
83
#1,858
rogerg said:
So then what happens to those who for some physical reason (for example) are unable to hear or believe the Gospel? Do they remain unsaved? What is their end spiritual result?
Click to expand...
Do you really think God would be that unfair?
Somethings are reserved for our Father's knowledge only.
 
F

FreeGrace2

Banned
#1,859
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
#1,859
FreeGrace2 said:
No, a person will be saved when he believes the biblical gospel.
peldom10 said:
...and the Gospel says we are not ......saved....... until death,
Click to expand...
Prove that with clear Scripture. That would mean all who believe are NOT saved until they die. Nonsense.

Further, consider the tenses in John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes (present tense) him who sent me has (present tense) eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

This means the MOMENT one believes they possess eternal life. That's what the verse is saying. No interpretation needed.

Now, consider John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Another crystal clear verse: Jesus gives the gift of eternal life, and the result is that the recipients shall never perish.
 
F

FreeGrace2

Banned
#1,860
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
#1,860
brightfame52 said:
The blood of Christ was only shed for them that are saved, which are the elect.
Click to expand...
This calvinistic doctrine is unbiblical.

You cannot show any verse that supports your statement, and you know it. If it were true, then every calvinst would shove that or those verses down all our throats.

in fact, there are multiple verses that clearly say that Christ died for all.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.