Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
- Thread starter MerSee
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So, Adam wasn't practising pride when He sinned? and was not refusing instruction when He took the forbidden fruit? So proverbs does not say Adam had shame?
And condemnation does not mean guilt, so Romans 5 does not say Adam became guilty?
Prov. 11:2 When pride comes, then comes shame; but with the lowly is wisdom.
Prov. 13:18 Poverty and shame shall be to him that refuses instruction, but he that regards reproof shall be honoured.
Rom. 5:16 for the judgment was by one (Adam) to condemnation...
And condemnation does not mean guilt, so Romans 5 does not say Adam became guilty?
Prov. 11:2 When pride comes, then comes shame; but with the lowly is wisdom.
Prov. 13:18 Poverty and shame shall be to him that refuses instruction, but he that regards reproof shall be honoured.
Rom. 5:16 for the judgment was by one (Adam) to condemnation...
if you keep running when your presuppositions get pinned to the wall, and then just unpeal them ready for another thread, you will continue to hold on to your failed presuppositions. Why not face the discussion and run it to it's logical and biblical conclusion and adopt a position that fits the logical final conclusion?
The context of the Heb 10:7 verse elaborates of Jesus "He comes to take away the first and establish the second." (v.9b), and v. 10, "And by that will, we have been sanctified through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."
And John6:39 is followed with an elaboration also of those that Father gives the Son,
v. 40, "For it is My Father’s will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
And John6:39 is followed with an elaboration also of those that Father gives the Son,
v. 40, "For it is My Father’s will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
There is a common misconception regarding total depravity. Total depravity does not mean that man is as
wicked or sinful as he could be, nor does it mean that man is without a conscience or any sense of right or
wrong. Neither does it mean that man does not or cannot do things that seem to be good when viewed from
a human perspective or measured against a human standard. It does not even mean that man cannot do things
that seem to conform outwardly to the law of God. What the Bible does teach and what total depravity does
recognize is that even the “good” things man does are tainted by sin because they are not done for the glory
of God and out of faith in Him (Romans 14:23; Hebrews 11:6). While man looks upon the outward acts and
judges them to be good, God looks upon not only the outward acts but also the inward motives that lie
behind them, and because they proceed from a heart that is in rebellion against Him and they are not done
for His glory, even these good deeds are like “filthy rags” in His sight. In other words, fallen man’s good deeds
are motivated not by a desire to please God but by our own self-interest and are thus corrupted to the point
where God declares that there is “no one who does good, no not one!” source
Romans 3:10-12
wicked or sinful as he could be, nor does it mean that man is without a conscience or any sense of right or
wrong. Neither does it mean that man does not or cannot do things that seem to be good when viewed from
a human perspective or measured against a human standard. It does not even mean that man cannot do things
that seem to conform outwardly to the law of God. What the Bible does teach and what total depravity does
recognize is that even the “good” things man does are tainted by sin because they are not done for the glory
of God and out of faith in Him (Romans 14:23; Hebrews 11:6). While man looks upon the outward acts and
judges them to be good, God looks upon not only the outward acts but also the inward motives that lie
behind them, and because they proceed from a heart that is in rebellion against Him and they are not done
for His glory, even these good deeds are like “filthy rags” in His sight. In other words, fallen man’s good deeds
are motivated not by a desire to please God but by our own self-interest and are thus corrupted to the point
where God declares that there is “no one who does good, no not one!” source
Romans 3:10-12
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I don't believe your conclusions are logical or biblical. Because of this, I don't think further discourse to be of any value. I do understand your positions and why you hold them; however, I don't believe your understanding is correct. Rather than engage in disparaging discussion, I would rather part company. Grace and peace.
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This brings to mind the parable of the talents. Believing"...that He is and that He is... translates to me as a directive to not only believe but to believe rightly of Him. The first and second man doubled the talents given to them according to each one's own ability, but the third gained nothing from the one he had been given. He was afraid and wanted to play if 'safe' and didn't want to risk losing it so, he hid it in the ground. And ultimately, he lost it and was 'fired.' His talent was taken from him and given to the man with ten. But I can't help but note that, considering that he took from the man with the one and gave it to him with the ten, it has been left to assumption whether the master of those serves, when he "returned to settle accounts with them," had actually taken (re)possession of any of those talents besides from the one with one talent. It seems that, actually, he gifted those as their reward for being, "good and faithful servant."
