Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
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His dwelling within us is what makes us born-again. It is impossible to truly know salvation or believe in Christ until and unless indwelt by the Holy Spirit. How say you then that we must be born again first, yet not being able to know the things of God and salvation until born-again.
Read the following verses, please.
[1Co 2:12-14 KJV]
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
[Jhn 6:45 KJV]
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
[Luk 1:77 KJV]
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
His dwelling within us is what makes us born-again. It is impossible to truly know salvation or believe in Christ until and unless indwelt by the Holy Spirit. How say you then that we must be born again first, yet not being able to know the things of God and salvation until born-again.
Read the following verses, please.
[1Co 2:12-14 KJV]
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
[Jhn 6:45 KJV]
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
[Luk 1:77 KJV]
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
Same salvation, different chapter - occurring at the end of time - the day of the Lord. Only those saved during their lifetimes
will be saved in the last day, hence, the "endure to the end shall be saved" - future tense.
This isn't the best verse to illustrate it, but the one that comes to mind right now:
[1Co 5:5 KJV] 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
will be saved in the last day, hence, the "endure to the end shall be saved" - future tense.
This isn't the best verse to illustrate it, but the one that comes to mind right now:
[1Co 5:5 KJV] 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Good God
1. We are dead in tresspasses and sins - We have a debt, or penalty of sin..
2. This debt must be removed before we are made alive, This is called justification.
3. Once we are justified, God is now free to enter us, because we are no longer seperated from God (God can not enter a person who is still under the penalty of sin)
this is all the salvation process
We are dead
We hear the word. and thus believe the word. and cry out to Jesus in faith to save us,
We then are justified. and through this justification we are regenerated or born again,
THEN satan enters us.
1. We are dead in tresspasses and sins - We have a debt, or penalty of sin..
2. This debt must be removed before we are made alive, This is called justification.
3. Once we are justified, God is now free to enter us, because we are no longer seperated from God (God can not enter a person who is still under the penalty of sin)
this is all the salvation process
We are dead
We hear the word. and thus believe the word. and cry out to Jesus in faith to save us,
We then are justified. and through this justification we are regenerated or born again,
THEN satan enters us.
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Nope. How can someone "call out" if they are spiritually dead in sin as you said they are? A spiritually dead person can't respond to things spiritual any more than a physically dead person can respond to things physical.
You either didn't read or didn't understand those verses, right? It's all spelled out right there if you can understand them.
You either didn't read or didn't understand those verses, right? It's all spelled out right there if you can understand them.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,--
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
εν ω και υμεις ακουσαντες τον λογον της αληθειας το ευαγγελιον της σωτηριας υμων εν ω και πιστευσαντες εσφραγισθητε τω πνευματι της επαγγελιας τω αγιω
Eph 1:13 ἐν en|G1722|Prep|in ᾧ hō|G3739|RelPro-DMS|whom καὶ kai|G2532|Conj|also ὑμεῖς, hymeis|G4771|PPro-N2P|you, ἀκούσαντες akousantes|G191|V-APA-NMP|having heard τὸν ton|G3588|Art-AMS|the λόγον logon|G3056|N-AMS|word τῆς tēs|G3588|Art-GFS|- ἀληθείας, alētheias|G225|N-GFS|of truth, τὸ to|G3588|Art-ANS|the εὐαγγέλιον euangelion|G2098|N-ANS|gospel τῆς tēs|G3588|Art-GFS|of the σωτηρίας sōtērias|G4991|N-GFS|salvation ὑμῶν, hymōn|G4771|PPro-G2P|of you, ἐν en|G1722|Prep|in ᾧ hō|G3739|RelPro-DMS|whom καὶ kai|G2532|Conj|also πιστεύσαντες pisteusantes|G4100|V-APA-NMP|having believed, ἐσφραγίσθητε esphragisthēte|G4972|V-AIP-2P|you were sealed τῷ tō|G3588|Art-DNS|with the Πνεύματι Pneumati|G4151|N-DNS|Spirit τῆς tēs|G3588|Art-GFS|- ἐπαγγελίας epangelias|G1860|N-GFS|of promise τῷ tō|G3588|Art-DNS|- Ἁγίῳ, Hagiō|G40|Adj-DNS|Holy,
IF you want to do a deeper study brother-
Eph 1:13 In Moshiach you also, having heard the message of HaEmes, the Besuras HaGeulah of Yeshu'at Eloheinu which is yours, having also come to emunah, received your chotam (seal) in Moshiach with the Ruach Hakodesh of havtachah (promise),
Eph 1:14 Who is bestowed as an eravon (pledge) of our nachalah (allotted inheritance, TEHILLIM 16:5-6), with a view to the Geulah of Hashem's own possession, to the tehilat kavod (praise of glory) of Him.
(14) Which is the earnest of our inheritance.—On the word “earnest” (arrhabôn), a precious gift, as surety for a fuller gift hereafter, see 2Co_1:22.
The word “inheritance” has a correspondent meaning. It is a present possession (as in Act_7:5), which shall be developed into a more precious future. “We are very members, incorporate in the mystical body of Christ, and also heirs through hope of His everlasting kingdom.”
Until the redemption of the purchased possession.—The “redemption” here is the complete and final salvation from sin and death (as in Rom_8:23). The original word here rendered “purchased possession” properly means “the act of purchase or acquisition,” and is so used in 1Th_5:9; 2Th_2:14; Heb_10:39. But
it seems clear that it is here used (in the sense of our version) with that confusion of idea, common in English, though rare in Greek, under which the result of an action is understood instead of the action itself, so that the word “purchases” is used for “things purchased,” “acquisitions” for “things acquired” and the like. The transition is marked in relation to this same word in Mal_3:17; 1Pe_2:9, where the Israelites are spoken of as “a people for acquisition,” that is, as a people acquired or purchased.
ye also. **Eph_2:1; **Eph_2:11; **Eph_2:12, *Col_1:21-23, +*1Pe_2:10.
trusted. Eph_1:12, 2Ch_16:7, Psa_86:2; Psa_125:1, Pro_16:20, Son_8:5, Dan_3:28, Zep_3:12, Mat_12:21, Rom_15:12, Php_2:19.
after that ye heard. Eph_4:21, **+Joh_1:17, *Act_15:7; **Act_16:31; **Act_16:32, Rom_6:17; **Rom_10:14-17, *Col_1:4-6; *Col_1:23, **1Th_2:13.
the word of truth. *Psa_119:43, Joh_17:17, *2Co_6:7, Gal_2:5, Col_1:5, **2Ti_2:15, *Jas_1:18, *1Pe_1:23.
the gospel. *Mar_16:15; *Mar_16:16, Act_13:38-39; Act_15:7, +*Rom_1:16, 1Co_2:2; *1Co_15:1-4, Php_1:27, +**2Ti_3:15, *Tit_2:11, **Heb_2:3, +*Jas_1:21.
of your salvation. Act_13:26.
in whom. Joh_5:23.
after that ye believed. Joh_5:24; Joh_7:39, Gal_3:2, *2Ti_1:12, 1Pe_1:8.
ye were sealed. +*Eph_4:30, Exo_28:11, Lev_14:14; Lev_14:17, *Est_8:8, Son_4:12, Jer_32:10, +*Eze_9:4, Mat_27:66, Luk_15:22, +Joh_3:33; +*Joh_6:27, *Rom_4:11, *2Co_1:22, **2Ti_2:19, Rev_7:2-3.
holy. +*Joe_2:28, *Luk_11:13; *Luk_24:49, *Joh_14:16; *Joh_14:17; *Joh_14:26; *Joh_15:26; Joh_16:7-15, *Act_1:4; Act_2:16-22; Act_2:33; Act_9:31, Rom_5:5, Gal_3:14.
Spirit. FS121A1, +Luk_1:17 note. Rom_8:9; Rom_8:15-16, 2Co_5:5, Gal_4:6, Php_2:1.
of promise. Eze_36:27; *Eze_37:14, *+Luk_24:49, Joh_4:14; Joh_14:16-17; Joh_16:13, Act_1:4, Gal_3:2; Gal_3:14.
J.
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
εν ω και υμεις ακουσαντες τον λογον της αληθειας το ευαγγελιον της σωτηριας υμων εν ω και πιστευσαντες εσφραγισθητε τω πνευματι της επαγγελιας τω αγιω
Eph 1:13 ἐν en|G1722|Prep|in ᾧ hō|G3739|RelPro-DMS|whom καὶ kai|G2532|Conj|also ὑμεῖς, hymeis|G4771|PPro-N2P|you, ἀκούσαντες akousantes|G191|V-APA-NMP|having heard τὸν ton|G3588|Art-AMS|the λόγον logon|G3056|N-AMS|word τῆς tēs|G3588|Art-GFS|- ἀληθείας, alētheias|G225|N-GFS|of truth, τὸ to|G3588|Art-ANS|the εὐαγγέλιον euangelion|G2098|N-ANS|gospel τῆς tēs|G3588|Art-GFS|of the σωτηρίας sōtērias|G4991|N-GFS|salvation ὑμῶν, hymōn|G4771|PPro-G2P|of you, ἐν en|G1722|Prep|in ᾧ hō|G3739|RelPro-DMS|whom καὶ kai|G2532|Conj|also πιστεύσαντες pisteusantes|G4100|V-APA-NMP|having believed, ἐσφραγίσθητε esphragisthēte|G4972|V-AIP-2P|you were sealed τῷ tō|G3588|Art-DNS|with the Πνεύματι Pneumati|G4151|N-DNS|Spirit τῆς tēs|G3588|Art-GFS|- ἐπαγγελίας epangelias|G1860|N-GFS|of promise τῷ tō|G3588|Art-DNS|- Ἁγίῳ, Hagiō|G40|Adj-DNS|Holy,
IF you want to do a deeper study brother-
Eph 1:13 In Moshiach you also, having heard the message of HaEmes, the Besuras HaGeulah of Yeshu'at Eloheinu which is yours, having also come to emunah, received your chotam (seal) in Moshiach with the Ruach Hakodesh of havtachah (promise),
Eph 1:14 Who is bestowed as an eravon (pledge) of our nachalah (allotted inheritance, TEHILLIM 16:5-6), with a view to the Geulah of Hashem's own possession, to the tehilat kavod (praise of glory) of Him.
(14) Which is the earnest of our inheritance.—On the word “earnest” (arrhabôn), a precious gift, as surety for a fuller gift hereafter, see 2Co_1:22.
The word “inheritance” has a correspondent meaning. It is a present possession (as in Act_7:5), which shall be developed into a more precious future. “We are very members, incorporate in the mystical body of Christ, and also heirs through hope of His everlasting kingdom.”
Until the redemption of the purchased possession.—The “redemption” here is the complete and final salvation from sin and death (as in Rom_8:23). The original word here rendered “purchased possession” properly means “the act of purchase or acquisition,” and is so used in 1Th_5:9; 2Th_2:14; Heb_10:39. But
it seems clear that it is here used (in the sense of our version) with that confusion of idea, common in English, though rare in Greek, under which the result of an action is understood instead of the action itself, so that the word “purchases” is used for “things purchased,” “acquisitions” for “things acquired” and the like. The transition is marked in relation to this same word in Mal_3:17; 1Pe_2:9, where the Israelites are spoken of as “a people for acquisition,” that is, as a people acquired or purchased.
ye also. **Eph_2:1; **Eph_2:11; **Eph_2:12, *Col_1:21-23, +*1Pe_2:10.
trusted. Eph_1:12, 2Ch_16:7, Psa_86:2; Psa_125:1, Pro_16:20, Son_8:5, Dan_3:28, Zep_3:12, Mat_12:21, Rom_15:12, Php_2:19.
after that ye heard. Eph_4:21, **+Joh_1:17, *Act_15:7; **Act_16:31; **Act_16:32, Rom_6:17; **Rom_10:14-17, *Col_1:4-6; *Col_1:23, **1Th_2:13.
the word of truth. *Psa_119:43, Joh_17:17, *2Co_6:7, Gal_2:5, Col_1:5, **2Ti_2:15, *Jas_1:18, *1Pe_1:23.
the gospel. *Mar_16:15; *Mar_16:16, Act_13:38-39; Act_15:7, +*Rom_1:16, 1Co_2:2; *1Co_15:1-4, Php_1:27, +**2Ti_3:15, *Tit_2:11, **Heb_2:3, +*Jas_1:21.
of your salvation. Act_13:26.
in whom. Joh_5:23.
after that ye believed. Joh_5:24; Joh_7:39, Gal_3:2, *2Ti_1:12, 1Pe_1:8.
ye were sealed. +*Eph_4:30, Exo_28:11, Lev_14:14; Lev_14:17, *Est_8:8, Son_4:12, Jer_32:10, +*Eze_9:4, Mat_27:66, Luk_15:22, +Joh_3:33; +*Joh_6:27, *Rom_4:11, *2Co_1:22, **2Ti_2:19, Rev_7:2-3.
holy. +*Joe_2:28, *Luk_11:13; *Luk_24:49, *Joh_14:16; *Joh_14:17; *Joh_14:26; *Joh_15:26; Joh_16:7-15, *Act_1:4; Act_2:16-22; Act_2:33; Act_9:31, Rom_5:5, Gal_3:14.
Spirit. FS121A1, +Luk_1:17 note. Rom_8:9; Rom_8:15-16, 2Co_5:5, Gal_4:6, Php_2:1.
of promise. Eze_36:27; *Eze_37:14, *+Luk_24:49, Joh_4:14; Joh_14:16-17; Joh_16:13, Act_1:4, Gal_3:2; Gal_3:14.
J.
They beytter be able to. Because if they di not. they will remain dead.
How do you call out when you are in trouble? Do you just sit their and wait?
Thats wrong
if they can not believe, they have no way to be saved.. Because they can not fulfill John 1, John 3, John 4, John 5, John 6 and so many other places where jesus said we must ask, recieve, or see and believe.
How do you call out when you are in trouble? Do you just sit their and wait?
Thats wrong
if they can not believe, they have no way to be saved.. Because they can not fulfill John 1, John 3, John 4, John 5, John 6 and so many other places where jesus said we must ask, recieve, or see and believe.
“We do have to hear to truly believe, but we must have the faith of Christ first in order to truly believe. “
The hearing and believing has to come first that’s what’s saves it’s where faith comes from
We have to believe the testimony the report first or we can’t ever believe it …….
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?
and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Romans 10:13-17
The circle continues i reckon but what’s the last thing you believed in that you’d never heard about ?
The hearing and believing has to come first that’s what’s saves it’s where faith comes from
We have to believe the testimony the report first or we can’t ever believe it …….
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?
and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Romans 10:13-17
The circle continues i reckon but what’s the last thing you believed in that you’d never heard about ?
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No, an unsaved person cannot hear spiritually. I think these verses might explain/confirm that, especially 1 Co 2:14.
In essence, it is saying that unsaved man can't know the things of God. One must have the Holy Spirit first, but
He will indwell someone only as a result OF/WITH salvation/being born-again
* I'm editing my last statement above. The but not to become saved makes no sense - taking it out -not sure what I was thinking
[1Co 2:12-14 KJV]
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
[Jhn 6:45 KJV]
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
[Luk 1:77 KJV]
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
In essence, it is saying that unsaved man can't know the things of God. One must have the Holy Spirit first, but
He will indwell someone only as a result OF/WITH salvation/being born-again
* I'm editing my last statement above. The but not to become saved makes no sense - taking it out -not sure what I was thinking
[1Co 2:12-14 KJV]
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
[Jhn 6:45 KJV]
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
[Luk 1:77 KJV]
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
The MOMENT you are sealed-Aorist-is the MOMENT you are indwelt by the Holy Spirit brother.
The sealing of the Spirit, mentioned in Ephesians 1:13-14, serves as a guarantee and a deposit securing the complete deliverance promised by God. It is a mark of ownership and security for believers until the final redemption. Therefore, while all believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation, they are also encouraged to seek being filled by the Spirit for ongoing empowerment and guidance in their Christian walk.
Rom 5:5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
Rom 5:6 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
2Co 1:21 And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us,
2Co 1:22 and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
The Holy Spirit indwells believers according to numerous biblical passages. Here are several relevant verses:
John 14:17 – Jesus reveals that the Holy Spirit will reside permanently in believers after His departure.
Romans 8:9 – Believers possess the Spirit of God, implying His constant presence.
1 Corinthians 3:16 – The apostle Paul states that believers are the temple of God, and the Spirit of God dwells in them.
1 Corinthians 6:19 – Our bodies are referred to as temples of the Holy Spirit, indicating that He inhabits believers.
Ephesians 1:13-14 – The Holy Spirit guarantees believers' inheritance and secures them for the future.
Titus 3:5 – The Holy Spirit imparts new life to believers, creating a spiritual resurrection.
These verses indicate that the Holy Spirit indwells believers, providing them with His presence and power for godly living.
The Greek term for "indwelt by the Holy Spirit" is "κατοικοῦντος τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος" (katoikountos tou hagiou pneumatos).
This phrase is used in the New Testament to describe the Holy Spirit taking up permanent residence in the body of a believer in Jesus. It signifies the continuous and permanent presence of the Holy Spirit within the believer, empowering, guiding, and transforming their lives. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is a central aspect of Christian theology and is associated with the believer's identity as a temple of the Holy Spirit
J.
The sealing of the Spirit, mentioned in Ephesians 1:13-14, serves as a guarantee and a deposit securing the complete deliverance promised by God. It is a mark of ownership and security for believers until the final redemption. Therefore, while all believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation, they are also encouraged to seek being filled by the Spirit for ongoing empowerment and guidance in their Christian walk.
Rom 5:5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
Rom 5:6 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
2Co 1:21 And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us,
2Co 1:22 and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
The Holy Spirit indwells believers according to numerous biblical passages. Here are several relevant verses:
John 14:17 – Jesus reveals that the Holy Spirit will reside permanently in believers after His departure.
Romans 8:9 – Believers possess the Spirit of God, implying His constant presence.
1 Corinthians 3:16 – The apostle Paul states that believers are the temple of God, and the Spirit of God dwells in them.
1 Corinthians 6:19 – Our bodies are referred to as temples of the Holy Spirit, indicating that He inhabits believers.
Ephesians 1:13-14 – The Holy Spirit guarantees believers' inheritance and secures them for the future.
Titus 3:5 – The Holy Spirit imparts new life to believers, creating a spiritual resurrection.
These verses indicate that the Holy Spirit indwells believers, providing them with His presence and power for godly living.
The Greek term for "indwelt by the Holy Spirit" is "κατοικοῦντος τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος" (katoikountos tou hagiou pneumatos).
This phrase is used in the New Testament to describe the Holy Spirit taking up permanent residence in the body of a believer in Jesus. It signifies the continuous and permanent presence of the Holy Spirit within the believer, empowering, guiding, and transforming their lives. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is a central aspect of Christian theology and is associated with the believer's identity as a temple of the Holy Spirit
J.