Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[Johann]

Yes. It is spiritual, not human hearing. Comes only with/from salvation.



Do you see the "unto the end"? It is speaking of the salvation that will occur on the last day.




Same thing: future tense - saved on the last day.

To truly believe comes only from the faith of Christ.

Incorrect-Present Tense

1Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

ταυτα εγραψα υμιν τοις πιστευουσιν εις το ονομα του υιου του θεου ινα ειδητε οτι ζωην εχετε αιωνιον και ινα πιστευητε εις το ονομα του υιου του θεου


That You May Know
1Jn 5:13 These things I wrote to you who have emunah b'Shem HaBen HaElohim, that you vada (with certainty) may have da'as that you have Chayyei Olam. [Yn 20:31]

It would seem that you cast our PRESENT salvation INTO the future-correct me if I'm wrong brother.
J.

 

[rogerg]

Incorrect-Present Tense

Did you not see the "unto the end" part? The end is the last day.
Anyway, the tense is future:

Inflected:σωθήσεταιRoot:σῴζω

Strong's:G4982English:shall be saved.Code:V-FPI-3SLong:Verb - Future Passive Indicative - 3rd Person Singular

 

[Cameron143]

The Bible says that faith is imputed or reckoned. Faith which is imputed results in believing. Righteousness came/comes with Christ's faith. Faith is not enabled.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Hearing produces faith.
Reckoning is an acknowledgement of something. Inputing is an impartation of something. Two different things.

 

[rogerg]

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Hearing produces faith.
Reckoning is an acknowledgement of something. Inputing is an impartation of something. Two different things.

Actually it doesn't say that. The "cometh" isn't in the verse but was added by the translators. Faith is imputed as a fruit of the Spirit
upon becoming born-again.

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The Bible says that faith is imputed or reckoned. Faith which is imputed results in believing. Righteousness came/comes with Christ's faith. Faith is not enabled.

No,

it says righteousness in imputed Through faith

we are saved because of Gods righteousness imputed to us (hence we are justified)

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Actually it doesn't say that. The "cometh" isn't in the verse but was added by the translators. Faith is imputed as a fruit of the Spirit
upon becoming born-again.

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

The furit of the spirit is only given to those who are sealed by the spirit.

The bible says they are sealed because they heard and believed.

 

[rogerg]

The furit of the spirit is only given to those who are sealed by the spirit.

The bible says they are sealed because they heard and believed.

No, the fruit of the Spirit is given upon becoming born-again. Being sealed, afterwards.

 

[rogerg]

No,

it says righteousness in imputed Through faith

we are saved because of Gods righteousness imputed to us (hence we are justified)

Righteousness (Christ's) is imputed as part of His faith.

 

[rogerg]

The bible says they are sealed because they heard and believed.

Believing comes from/because of the faith of Christ.

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes. It is spiritual, not human hearing. Comes only with/from salvation.



Do you see the "unto the end"? It is speaking of the salvation that will occur on the last day.




Same thing: future tense - saved on the last day.

To truly believe comes only from the faith of Christ.

“Yes. It is spiritual, not human hearing. Comes only with/from salvation.”

hmmm I see

“Do you see the "unto the end"? It is speaking of the salvation that will occur on the last day.”

oh I see I thought it was in the context of what he was saying to them about the rivulation they were about to face because of him but. Lol okay

“Same thing: future tense - saved on the last day.”

ahh lol I see that seperate different salvation again that other way of being saved

“To truly believe comes only from the faith of Christ.”

hmm I wish I understood that part I thought to believe we had to hear what God said to believe and be saved hmm wow your interpretations are something friend

ahh I see so why did Jesus send out his witnesses tomoresch the gospel and say whoever believes would be saved and whoever rejected it would be?

 

[Cameron143]

Actually it doesn't say that. The "cometh" isn't in the verse but was added by the translators. Faith is imputed as a fruit of the Spirit
upon becoming born-again.

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Faith as an element of salvation is of the same character as faith that is produced by the Spirit in sanctification, as well as the faith given as a gift to some in 1 Corinthians 12. But they are given for different purposes and fulfill different ends.

 

[Johann]

Did you not see the "unto the end" part? The end is the last day.
Anyway, the tense is future:

Inflected:σωθήσεταιRoot:σῴζω

Strong's:G4982English:shall be saved.Code:V-FPI-3SLong:Verb - Future Passive Indicative - 3rd Person Singular

Incorrect-

I am more than willing to go the extra mile with you-as long as we remain teachable and not dogmatic.

I don't use online tools-I have my own.

I have written (egrapsa). Not epistolary aorist, but refers to 1Jn_5:1-12 of this Epistle as in 1Jn_2:26 to the preceding verses.

That ye may know (hina eidēte). Purpose clause with hina and the second >>perfect<< active subjunctive of oida, to know with settled intuitive knowledge.

What is the Perfect Tense brother?

He wishes them to have eternal life in Christ (Joh_20:31) and to know that they have it, but not with flippant superficiality (1Jn_2:3.).

Unto you that believe on (tois pisteuousin eis). Dative of the articular present active participle of pisteuō and eis as in 1Jn_5:10. For this use of onoma (name) with pisteuō see 1Jn_3:23; Joh_2:23.

These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that ye have eternal life,—unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God. The awkwardness of the explanatory clause added at the end has led to various expedients for making the whole run more smoothly. Comp. the similarly added explanation in 1Jn_5:16; τοῖς ἁμαρτάνουσιν μὴ πρὸς θάνατον.
[850] 4th century. Discovered by Tischendorf in 1859 at the monastery of S. Catherine on Mount Sinai, and now at Petersburg. All three Epistles.
[851] 4th century. Brought to Rome about 1460. It is entered in the earliest catalogue of the Vatican Library, 1475. All three Epistles.
ἵνα εἰδῆτε ὅτι ζ. ἔχ. αἰ.

At the opening of the Epistle S. John said ‘These things we write that our joy may be fulfilled’ (1Jn_1:4). The context there shews what constitutes this joy. It is the consciousness of fellowship with God and His Son and His saints; in other words it is the conscious possession of eternal life (Joh_17:3).

Thus the Introduction and Conclusion of the Epistle mutually explain one another. This verse should also be compared with its parallel in the Gospel (Joh_20:31), a passage which has probably influenced some of the various readings here. We see at once the similar yet not identical purposes of Gospel and Epistle. S. John writes his Gospel, ‘that ye may have life’; he writes his Epistle ‘that ye may know that ye have life’. The one leads to the obtaining of the boon; the other to the joy of knowing that the boon has been obtained. The one is to produce faith; the other is to make clear the fruits of faith. For πιστ. εἰς τὸ ὄνομα see on 1Jn_5:10 and on 1Jn_3:23.

Ah! The sweet bliss of KNOWING we have-presently-life eternal! Sheer grace and mercy from our loving Father and our great God and Savior Christ Jesus! May His Name be extolled and magnified and reverberate throughout the kosmos and the heavens!

Shalom
J.

 

[rogerg]

hmm I wish I understood that part I thought to believe we had to hear what God said to believe and be saved hmm wow your interpretations are something friend

We do have to hear to truly believe, but we must have the faith of Christ first in order to truly believe.
Only those who have it can do so. And for those so chosen for it, they will, in one way or the other, be preached the gospel.

 

[Cameron143]

Believing comes from/because of the faith of Christ.

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Again, justification is different than regeneration. One is experiential and the other positional.

 

[rogerg]

Incorrect-

I am more than willing to go the extra mile with you-as long as we remain teachable and not dogmatic.

I don't use online tools-I have my own.

I have written (egrapsa). Not epistolary aorist, but refers to 1Jn_5:1-12 of this Epistle as in 1Jn_2:26 to the preceding verses.

That ye may know (hina eidēte). Purpose clause with hina and the second >>perfect<< active subjunctive of oida, to know with settled intuitive knowledge.

What is the Perfect Tense brother?

He wishes them to have eternal life in Christ (Joh_20:31) and to know that they have it, but not with flippant superficiality (1Jn_2:3.).

Unto you that believe on (tois pisteuousin eis). Dative of the articular present active participle of pisteuō and eis as in 1Jn_5:10. For this use of onoma (name) with pisteuō see 1Jn_3:23; Joh_2:23.

These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that ye have eternal life,—unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God. The awkwardness of the explanatory clause added at the end has led to various expedients for making the whole run more smoothly. Comp. the similarly added explanation in 1Jn_5:16; τοῖς ἁμαρτάνουσιν μὴ πρὸς θάνατον.
[850] 4th century. Discovered by Tischendorf in 1859 at the monastery of S. Catherine on Mount Sinai, and now at Petersburg. All three Epistles.
[851] 4th century. Brought to Rome about 1460. It is entered in the earliest catalogue of the Vatican Library, 1475. All three Epistles.
ἵνα εἰδῆτε ὅτι ζ. ἔχ. αἰ.

At the opening of the Epistle S. John said ‘These things we write that our joy may be fulfilled’ (1Jn_1:4). The context there shews what constitutes this joy. It is the consciousness of fellowship with God and His Son and His saints; in other words it is the conscious possession of eternal life (Joh_17:3).

Thus the Introduction and Conclusion of the Epistle mutually explain one another. This verse should also be compared with its parallel in the Gospel (Joh_20:31), a passage which has probably influenced some of the various readings here. We see at once the similar yet not identical purposes of Gospel and Epistle. S. John writes his Gospel, ‘that ye may have life’; he writes his Epistle ‘that ye may know that ye have life’. The one leads to the obtaining of the boon; the other to the joy of knowing that the boon has been obtained. The one is to produce faith; the other is to make clear the fruits of faith. For πιστ. εἰς τὸ ὄνομα see on 1Jn_5:10 and on 1Jn_3:23.

Ah! The sweet bliss of KNOWING we have-presently-life eternal! Sheer grace and mercy from our loving Father and our great God and Savior Christ Jesus! May His Name be extolled and magnified and reverberate throughout the kosmos and the heavens!

Shalom
J.

No need to go the extra mile - guess we'll just have to disagree then.

 

[rogerg]

Again, justification is different than regeneration. One is experiential and the other positional.

Not sure what you mean.

 

[Johann]

No need to go the extra mile - guess we'll have to disagree then.

No problem-I am getting used to the cold shoulder.
J.

 

[rogerg]

No problem-I am getting used to the cold shoulder.
J.

Cold shoulder, really? From me? Not intended.

 

[Johann]

Cold shoulder, really? From me? Not intended.

Good to hear-it was more of a general statement.
Shalom
J.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

No, the fruit of the Spirit is given upon becoming born-again. Being sealed, afterwards.

Nope

We do not have gifts of the spirit until he comes in us

He does not come in us until AFTER we are born again.

I would study John 3 hard. especially the part about moses lifting the serpent. Did God force those people to look at the serpent and did he refuse to allow the ones who did not to die because they did not have faith to look?