Biblical Eternal Security vs 'Calvinistic Eternal Security' -by Gregg Jackson
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What is a "gospel heretic".... This is a person who adds some type of self effort to the Gospel, or some type of revision.
So, heresy, is not just about misunderstanding, but its about revising.
Its a theology that is revising TRUTH, based on misinterpretation, or based on the devil deceiving.
Can be the same thing.... often is.
So a Catholic will say.....>"Yes, Jesus SAVES, but, you must get water baptized".
See that?
That is agreeing then revision of ..
"Yes, Jesus saves"......then the revision of the truth...>"BUT, you must get water baptized".
See that?
That is a blend....That is a hybrid truth, and that is how the devil fools you.
He mixes truth with deception, and it sounds true, but isn't.
Now how do the "predestined elect" (Calvinists) do the same, trick?
They teach, that Jesus is the Savior, then deny His Blood Redemption and reject His Cross, by making it CONDITIONAL.
Like this.
"Its only some"......>"its only the elect"......."its only the predestined".
So, the offer of Salvation, is now only offered to SOME and not ALL, and that is the lie, as that is the revision of the truth.
Of course all christians/ those in Christ are called the elect. It is because God elected them.. Your faith is not election. election is God decree.
All Christians are elected to be saved:
But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ - 2 Thes 2:13ff.
And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. - Romans 8:28-30
Anyhow Kidron, it has been good chatting with you. I won't answer your post #703 as it is not even factual. Enjoy the rest of your evening. It's time for a cuppa and maybe a piece of cake here
The bible is a progressive revelation.
It basically starts with Creation, and ends at the end of the Revelation.
A lot happens in between, and all of it is this...>God is dealing with man, and this changes and changes.
God never changes, yet His dealing with man, is shown as changing all through the bible.
= Progressive revelaiton.
Right now, you and me and all of us, are in the "time of the Gentiles".
Paul is our literal apostle, as Paul is the "apostle TO the Gentiles".
This is God's dealing not just with the JEW.........but mostly with the GENTILES.
When the Grt Trib starts, God is again back with the Jew and the time of the Gentiles is OVER.
Jesus is coming back, 2nd time, not to save, but to destroy and bring vengeance. 2nd Thessalonians 1:8-9
He is literally coming back to bring vengeance on those who do not believe or obey the Gospel.
That's the next progressive reveal, and we are HERE.........before that, in the "time of the Gentiles".
During this Time of the Gentiles, you have some rules that apply, in this time of the Gentiles.
These rules DEFINE, the new covenant and the church doctrine.
When Jesus was here, he was in the OLD Covenant time, and when His Cross was raised the time of the Gentiles, and the NEW Covenant, literally began.
So, here is the first key you have to SEE, so that you dont get lost in the bible, as it has many working parts, and not all of them work correctly, when you try to JAM THEM INTO THE TIME OF THE GENTILES.
First Key........1.) Every verse that is written in the NT, that happened before the Cross was raised, has to be viewed in light of the Cross.
For example.......You have John' the Baptist's water baptism. This happened before the Cross was raised.
So, are you supposed to be baptized according to John's baptism that was for JEWS, (Jews like JESUS).....2000 yrs after the New Covenant is given?
Nope.
So, see that change?
And so, lots of changes occurred because the new Covenant replaced the Old covenant.
Now, your question.....""""""is everyone saved, just because they are born."
Not at all.............no.
And yet all who will become born again, ......God knew they would, before they were born.
He know i would be saved before i was born, but He didnt make me. He didnt force me.
He OFFERED Jesus to me, and said......"will you believe"..........and i DID, and God said...."your faith is counted as My Righteousness"., and i was born again.
And, He knew i would believe, before i was born......but that is not causing it to happen, that is FOREKNOWLEDGE.....that is : "God knows everything before it happens".......including who will end up in heaven and who will end up in hell.
BUT HERE IS THE KEY...... =.Knowing a thing, is not the same as causing it to happen.
Foreknowledge, is KNOWING.........not causing.
God's foreknowledge shows Him who will be saved, but that is God knowing they will before they are born.... that is not God causing it to happen.
Foreknowledge is KNOWING before it happens........... this is not the same as causing it to happen..
(foreknowledge)..= KNOWING it will, is not the same as causing it to happen.
It basically starts with Creation, and ends at the end of the Revelation.
A lot happens in between, and all of it is this...>God is dealing with man, and this changes and changes.
God never changes, yet His dealing with man, is shown as changing all through the bible.
= Progressive revelaiton.
Right now, you and me and all of us, are in the "time of the Gentiles".
Paul is our literal apostle, as Paul is the "apostle TO the Gentiles".
This is God's dealing not just with the JEW.........but mostly with the GENTILES.
When the Grt Trib starts, God is again back with the Jew and the time of the Gentiles is OVER.
Jesus is coming back, 2nd time, not to save, but to destroy and bring vengeance. 2nd Thessalonians 1:8-9
He is literally coming back to bring vengeance on those who do not believe or obey the Gospel.
That's the next progressive reveal, and we are HERE.........before that, in the "time of the Gentiles".
During this Time of the Gentiles, you have some rules that apply, in this time of the Gentiles.
These rules DEFINE, the new covenant and the church doctrine.
When Jesus was here, he was in the OLD Covenant time, and when His Cross was raised the time of the Gentiles, and the NEW Covenant, literally began.
So, here is the first key you have to SEE, so that you dont get lost in the bible, as it has many working parts, and not all of them work correctly, when you try to JAM THEM INTO THE TIME OF THE GENTILES.
First Key........1.) Every verse that is written in the NT, that happened before the Cross was raised, has to be viewed in light of the Cross.
For example.......You have John' the Baptist's water baptism. This happened before the Cross was raised.
So, are you supposed to be baptized according to John's baptism that was for JEWS, (Jews like JESUS).....2000 yrs after the New Covenant is given?
Nope.
So, see that change?
And so, lots of changes occurred because the new Covenant replaced the Old covenant.
Now, your question.....""""""is everyone saved, just because they are born."
Not at all.............no.
And yet all who will become born again, ......God knew they would, before they were born.
He know i would be saved before i was born, but He didnt make me. He didnt force me.
He OFFERED Jesus to me, and said......"will you believe"..........and i DID, and God said...."your faith is counted as My Righteousness"., and i was born again.
And, He knew i would believe, before i was born......but that is not causing it to happen, that is FOREKNOWLEDGE.....that is : "God knows everything before it happens".......including who will end up in heaven and who will end up in hell.
BUT HERE IS THE KEY...... =.Knowing a thing, is not the same as causing it to happen.
Foreknowledge, is KNOWING.........not causing.
God's foreknowledge shows Him who will be saved, but that is God knowing they will before they are born.... that is not God causing it to happen.
Foreknowledge is KNOWING before it happens........... this is not the same as causing it to happen..
(foreknowledge)..= KNOWING it will, is not the same as causing it to happen.
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Hyper Calvinism is a cult teaching that teaches that God causes some to be saved and others to burn in the lake of fire.
This cult teaches that God does not allow some to believe, = that sends them to the lake of Fire.
They have no free will, they are forced to remain unbelievers.........That God causes this...
This theology is the Devil's lie.
Don't buy it for yourself.
This cult teaches that God does not allow some to believe, = that sends them to the lake of Fire.
They have no free will, they are forced to remain unbelievers.........That God causes this...
This theology is the Devil's lie.
Don't buy it for yourself.
I would agree with you Hyper Calvinism is terrible
And I still stand by the statement I made echoing Paul.. All Christians are elected to be saved:
But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ - 2 Thes 2:13ff.
And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. - Romans 8:28-30
Anyhow I just wanted to let you know I disagree with Hyper Calvinism also..
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You didnt read your verse.
Calvinists never do.
Let me show you something important.
Verse's have a context, and when people like you just post some random verse, and then say..>"see there, i posted a verse"......as if this is proof of anything other then a cut and paste skill, then, that explains why you can't understand your own verse.
Look at your verse.......here is the result......."chose you as firstfruits"........but look at the context, or the 'HOW DID THAT HAPPEN ????
It happened like this...."""" CHOSE you as firstfruits""""......happened BECAUSE......"sanctifying work of the Spirit, and through BELIEF IN THE TRUTH">
See those 2?? They are in your verse, phil36
All these that God chose, had to BELIEVE first., after the sanctifying work of the Spirit was in process.
*********Welcome to the GOSPEL.********* Its nice to see that you found it.
= "faith comes by hearing". > "all that believe in Jesus shall be saved, have eternal life".
Notice your verse speaks of the "sanctifying work of the Spirit.""
What is that?
that is Jesus saying this.....>"if i be lifted up, i will DRAW ALL MEN to me".... = by the Holy Spirit.
How does that happen?
Here is how......I preach the Cross, and the Holy Spirit opens their heart, and some BELIEVE.
Those that do, are the chosen/elect......because they have BELIEVED..........just like your verse teaches.
See that Freewill in operation.
They made a choice, and God honors your choice.
Faith Elects
God Saves
Calvinists never do.
Let me show you something important.
Verse's have a context, and when people like you just post some random verse, and then say..>"see there, i posted a verse"......as if this is proof of anything other then a cut and paste skill, then, that explains why you can't understand your own verse.
Look at your verse.......here is the result......."chose you as firstfruits"........but look at the context, or the 'HOW DID THAT HAPPEN ????
It happened like this...."""" CHOSE you as firstfruits""""......happened BECAUSE......"sanctifying work of the Spirit, and through BELIEF IN THE TRUTH">
See those 2?? They are in your verse, phil36
All these that God chose, had to BELIEVE first., after the sanctifying work of the Spirit was in process.
*********Welcome to the GOSPEL.********* Its nice to see that you found it.
= "faith comes by hearing". > "all that believe in Jesus shall be saved, have eternal life".
Notice your verse speaks of the "sanctifying work of the Spirit.""
What is that?
that is Jesus saying this.....>"if i be lifted up, i will DRAW ALL MEN to me".... = by the Holy Spirit.
How does that happen?
Here is how......I preach the Cross, and the Holy Spirit opens their heart, and some BELIEVE.
Those that do, are the chosen/elect......because they have BELIEVED..........just like your verse teaches.
See that Freewill in operation.
They made a choice, and God honors your choice.
Faith Elects
God Saves
Not sure what you want here. Well you didn't use the word of God at all. Cal said.. you said then the bible is true. Fact you and Cal believe the same on that.
Since you talked about salvation and Calvinist then you know there are wow so many that believe salvation is in fact a gift from God. I just searched again and read what they said about salvation. It does seem some pick and choose what they quote.. not sure why.
Took not even a min. Maybe not lumping all into one? Just a thought. Hmm wonder of some say WORKS would say something like "well you can't just receive Jesus as lord then go back to normal life. You need to work.. show some kind of good works? Now one can if you choose get lost in the WORKS lol. Maybe try to help them? Who wants to hear YOUR WRONG.. can you see I AM RIGHT! haha
Since you talked about salvation and Calvinist then you know there are wow so many that believe salvation is in fact a gift from God. I just searched again and read what they said about salvation. It does seem some pick and choose what they quote.. not sure why.
Took not even a min. Maybe not lumping all into one? Just a thought. Hmm wonder of some say WORKS would say something like "well you can't just receive Jesus as lord then go back to normal life. You need to work.. show some kind of good works? Now one can if you choose get lost in the WORKS lol. Maybe try to help them? Who wants to hear YOUR WRONG.. can you see I AM RIGHT! haha
2 Thessalonians 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Here is the contextual approach. Paul is referring to the "brethren" (spiritual brothers and sisters = saved). This "chosen to salvation" is not the positional one (every believer is saved from the penalty of sin/justified) but this is the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit in the everyday life of the believer, it means we are saved from the power of sin. This salvation is specifically from the work of iniquity (v.7), deceivers causing unrighteous (vv.9-10). This sanctification and belief of the truth will thwart every working of Satan.
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Here is the contextual approach. Paul is referring to the "brethren" (spiritual brothers and sisters = saved). This "chosen to salvation" is not the positional one (every believer is saved from the penalty of sin/justified) but this is the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit in the everyday life of the believer, it means we are saved from the power of sin. This salvation is specifically from the work of iniquity (v.7), deceivers causing unrighteous (vv.9-10). This sanctification and belief of the truth will thwart every working of Satan.
A new age religion teaching which is ...wrong.
End time prophecy in scriptures includes......in the end times there will be great deceptions. The above ....is one.
We must repent of our sins, be baptized and then live a righteous life...until the end....such is God's commandment.
The Lord's prayer includes the point of ....forgive us of our tress passes as we forgive our tress passers...as a daily prayer.
Also, if OSAS is true why did God give us, virtually, unlimited times of sin forgiveness?...once would be enough.
Rev 22; 18,19, (and two other books says the same thing)..........says no man should change the Bible.
New age religion teachings are an attempt too change the Bible and God's intent.
These ....new age religion teachings..... have no record prior to the 1960's. Are we to believe that we just became smarter in the 1960"s? I believe not.
End time prophecy in scriptures includes......in the end times there will be great deceptions. The above ....is one.
We must repent of our sins, be baptized and then live a righteous life...until the end....such is God's commandment.
The Lord's prayer includes the point of ....forgive us of our tress passes as we forgive our tress passers...as a daily prayer.
Also, if OSAS is true why did God give us, virtually, unlimited times of sin forgiveness?...once would be enough.
Rev 22; 18,19, (and two other books says the same thing)..........says no man should change the Bible.
New age religion teachings are an attempt too change the Bible and God's intent.
These ....new age religion teachings..... have no record prior to the 1960's. Are we to believe that we just became smarter in the 1960"s? I believe not.
Did you say "God created evil"?
Then if you did, you accused God, on a publc forum, of creating : Rape, Incest, lies, hatred, child molesting, christ rejection, murder, Hitler, bigoty.
See, all that is EVIL and so when you accuse God of "creating evil" or "causing evil", you SEE what you have actually accused Him of Doing.
Think about that before you do it again., and if you are in a CULT that teaches you to accuse God of "causing evil", then get out of it.
FreeGrace2 said:
Election doesn't cause anything. God's election is a choice. Specifically, it is God's choice of believers for service.
This verse doesn't show that election CAUSES anything.
In fact, Paul's point is about the method or mechanics that God CHOSE for salvation: that being, the sanctifying work of the Spirit and belief in the truth.
The key words are are "saved through...". iow, God has chosen the means by which man is saved.
And, the Greek word for "chose" here is NOT the Greek word translated elsewhere as "elected". Here, the word is "haireomai" while the Greek word for elected is "eklegomai".
Paul was not talking about election here.
Election doesn't cause anything. God's election is a choice. Specifically, it is God's choice of believers for service.
This verse doesn't show that election CAUSES anything.
In fact, Paul's point is about the method or mechanics that God CHOSE for salvation: that being, the sanctifying work of the Spirit and belief in the truth.
The key words are are "saved through...". iow, God has chosen the means by which man is saved.
And, the Greek word for "chose" here is NOT the Greek word translated elsewhere as "elected". Here, the word is "haireomai" while the Greek word for elected is "eklegomai".
Paul was not talking about election here.
No we aren't. That's an error from Calvinism's "doctrine of election". Election has nothing to do with being chosen for salvation, or, really, that God chooses who will believe, which is the real issue in that doctrine.
In every verse where the purpose of election is stated, it is about service. included the unsaved Judas Iscariot.
John 6:70,71
70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”
71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)
Eph 1:4 teaches that God has chosen believers to be holy and blameless. That is service.
1 Cor 1:27,28
27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are,
There is no salvation here, only service.
In every verse where the purpose of election is stated, it is about service. included the unsaved Judas Iscariot.
John 6:70,71
70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”
71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)
Eph 1:4 teaches that God has chosen believers to be holy and blameless. That is service.
1 Cor 1:27,28
27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are,
There is no salvation here, only service.
That isn't the issue. The issue in election is service, whether an unsaved person like Judas, per John 6:70,71 or believers, per Eph 1:4 and 1 Cor 1:27,28.
The fruit of the Spirit isn't "grown" as you note. The fruit of the Spirit is what the Spirit does through the believer who is in fellowship and filled with the Spriit, as I have explained.
What was unclear about my explanation?
The fruit of the Spirit isn't "grown" as you note. The fruit of the Spirit is what the Spirit does through the believer who is in fellowship and filled with the Spriit, as I have explained.
What was unclear about my explanation?
I think you mistake "forbidding" with "preventing".
Since God did NOT prevent man or woman from eating of that tree, they were actually free to eat of it. Which they DID.
So, they had free will to eat of the forbidden tree.
The example of preventing free will was about the "tree of life". After they rebelled and ate from the forbidden tree, they were kicked out of the garden so that they COULDN'T eat of the tree of life.
Since God did NOT prevent man or woman from eating of that tree, they were actually free to eat of it. Which they DID.
So, they had free will to eat of the forbidden tree.
The example of preventing free will was about the "tree of life". After they rebelled and ate from the forbidden tree, they were kicked out of the garden so that they COULDN'T eat of the tree of life.