Biblical Eternal Security vs 'Calvinistic Eternal Security' -by Gregg Jackson

[Grandpa]

What no man can obey is the Mosaic Law. Everyone can believe the gospel.

Otherwise, Titus 2:11 is a LIE. Is that your view?

Titus 2:11 doesn't say everyone can believe the gospel.

To be specific, only by believing in Christ are we given rest.

Again, the Lord didn't say "believe in me and I will give you rest". He said "come to me and I will give you rest".

 

[Kidron]

Who are saved? The elect.
Who are chosen? Only the called.
Who are all? The elect who are called.

"many are called"......this is : John 3:16......""""For God so love the WORLD"..
See the "world"......that is who is being called to the Cross.

but few "are Chosen"

Who are Chosen? = All who Believe in Jesus.

So, God calles everyone .......>" if i be lifted up i will DRAW ALL MEN".....

See that 'All"? That is the "world".

YET< not everyone in the world will Believe.
All who do, are "chosen", and become Born again.

Faith Elects.
God saves.

 

[JerryInBoston]

"many are called"......this is : John 3:16......""""For God so love the WORLD"..
See the "world"......that is who is being called to the Cross.

but few "are Chosen"

Who are Chosen? = All who Believe in Jesus.

So, God calles everyone .......>" if i be lifted up i will DRAW ALL MEN".....

See that 'All"? That is the "world".

YET< not everyone in the world will Believe.
All who do, are "chosen", and become Born again.

Faith Elects.
God saves.

Faith is a gift which is by God's grace. All men are spiritually dead in trespasses and sins. What can dead men do? Dead men are not able to believe in Christ. But God resurrects the spiritual death of men with the power HIS Word and the power of the Holy Spirit. God provokes the spiritually dead in order to have them respond to HIS grace offer, just as God provoked Israel by offering the promise and salvation to the Gentiles. The called respond and receive the gift of faith.

 

[JerryInBoston]

"many are called"......this is : John 3:16......""""For God so love the WORLD"..
See the "world"......that is who is being called to the Cross.

but few "are Chosen"

Who are Chosen? = All who Believe in Jesus.

So, God calles everyone .......>" if i be lifted up i will DRAW ALL MEN".....

See that 'All"? That is the "world".

YET< not everyone in the world will Believe.
All who do, are "chosen", and become Born again.

Faith Elects.
God saves.

Romans 8:28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth

 

[Kidron]

Faith is a gift which is by God's grace.

The heresy of : "pre-destined elect", is the barbaric theology that defines God as a Cosmic Psychopath, who causes the evil in the world, and also left Heaven to die on the Cross for only some, but not for all.

These Cross denying devil led people, teach that God chooses some to burn and choose others to go to Heaven, as if Salvation is some type of Lotto or slot machine and if you are not the right number, you end up in the Lake of Fire.

What i have always noted about these liars is that everyone in their family is miraculously chosen to go to heaven.

So Jerry, If you ever come in contact with one of these devil led God accusing heretics, be sure to call them out and make sure everyone knows what they believe, as these are perhaps the most harmful of all the Devil's false ministers.

 

[JerryInBoston]

The heresy of : "pre-destined elect", is the theology that defines God as a Cosmic Psychopath, who, causes the evil in the world, and left Heaven to die on the Cross for only some, but not for all.

So Jerry, If you ever come in contact with one of these devil led God accusing heretics, be sure to call them out and make sure everyone knows what they believe, as these are perhaps the most harmful of all the Devil's false ministers.

I don't know anyone that ascribes to the notion that God is a psychopath. But, the Bible cleary says that there are the elect that are predestinated. How can biblical terms be heretical?

 

[Kidron]

I don't know anyone that ascribes to the notion that God is a psychopath. But, the Bible cleary says that there are the elect that are predestinated. How can biblical terms be heretical?

Have you ever met a true Calvinist?
A real one that will define themselves as a Calvinist.
Want me to send you to at least one Forum, where all the Mods and most of the Members are Calvinsist's?

Here is what they teach..

"God causes everything to happen".

"God created Evil"

So, these Calvinist nutbars teach that because God causes everything, that means RAPE, MURDER< INCEST< CHILD PORN, HITLER, ......"all evil", is "God created".

So i can show you the link, if you want to read their theological insanity.

Do you watch movies?

Every heard of a Movie.....or seen it.......from the '80s.....>"The Boy Who Could Fly"?

I love this movie........
I once dealt with the boy in the movie, who is grown now.
He lives in California, and is a true "pre-destined" elect, flake.
I talked to him for a while and tried to get him out of this cult mindset, but, these types are so hardened, and so spiritually blinded, that you really have to get them out of their cult (church)........to help them, and he was not about to leave his group.

 

[JerryInBoston]

Have you ever met a true Calvinist?
A real one that will define themselves as a Calvinist.
Want me to send you to at least one Forum, where all the Mods and most of the Members are Calvinsist's?

Here is what they teach..

"God causes everything to happen".

"God created Evil"

So, these Calvinist nutbars teach that because God causes everything, that means RAPE, MURDER< INCEST< CHILD PORN, HITLER, ......"all evil", is "God created".

So i can show you the link, if you want to read their theological insanity.

I have not personally met what you've described. Give me some names. Perhaps I've heard of them.

 

[Kidron]

I have not personally met what you've described. Give me some names. Perhaps I've heard of them.

Christianforums.net

Christianforums.com


Go there, and write a Thread........." All Christians Have Freewill".

They will find you.
No worries.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Titus 2:11 doesn't say everyone can believe the gospel.

Since the grace of God OFFERS salvation to everyone, it is OBVIOUS that everyone can. But those who continue to insist that not everyone can believe simply don't want to believe the obvious.

 

[Kidron]

Again, the Lord didn't say "believe in me and I will give you rest". He said "come to me and I will give you rest".

You misquoted the verse.

Jesus said that "ALL that come unto me".
So, you have a real problem with that word "ALL" because it does not fit your Calvinism.

Lets look at "all" again.

Jesus said...>"if i be lifted up (the Cross) I will draw ALL men to me".

John 3:16, says........"For God so loved the Elect"............ummm no.
It says....."For God so loved the WORLD............. that He Gave Jesus..........that WHOSOEVER believes in Him.....shall not perish, but HAVE eternal life".

Notice that you HAVE eternal life if you BELIEVE......and the offer of Eternal Life is to "whosoever".
That means "All who will believe".

So, the OFFER of Salvation is to EVERYONE, but only those who BELIEVE will receive it.

 

[JerryInBoston]

You misquoted the verse.

Jesus said that "ALL that come unto me".
So, you have a real problem with that word "ALL" because it does not fit your Calvinism.

Lets look at "all" again.

Jesus said...>"if i be lifted up (the Cross) I will draw ALL men to me".

John 3:16, says........"For God so loved the Elect"............ummm no.
It says....."For God so loved the WORLD............. that He Gave Jesus..........that WHOSOEVER believes in Him.....shall not perish, but HAVE eternal life".

Notice that you HAVE eternal life if you BELIEVE......and the offer of Eternal Life is to "whosoever".
That means "All who will believe".

So, the OFFER of Salvation is to EVERYONE, but only those who BELIEVE will receive it.

But all do not come because all will not come.

Who are the elect and the called? Aren't they the one's who come?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Faith is a gift which is by God's grace.

But you have NOT provided any verses that support your view. And Eph 2:8 isn't one.

All men are spiritually dead in trespasses and sins. What can dead men do?

The Bible tells us what spiritually dead men can do:

John 5:25 - Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.

That's what spiritually dead men can do.

Dead men are not able to believe in Christ.

Another claim without any evidence at all.

But God resurrects the spiritual death of men with the power HIS Word and the power of the Holy Spirit.

Well, this is true, but not in the way you think. There will be A resurrection of the saved and a resurrection of the unsaved per Acts 24:15. God will resurrect the spritually dead people to attend the Great White Throne judgment in Rev 20:11-15.

God provokes the spiritually dead in order to have them respond to HIS grace offer

No, God does not FORCE (provoke) anyone to respond to His offer of grace.

In fact, because the grace of God OFFERS salvation proves that God does NOT provoke anyone.

 

[JerryInBoston]

But you have NOT provided any verses that support your view. And Eph 2:8 isn't one.


The Bible tells us what spiritually dead men can do:

John 5:25 - Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.

That's what spiritually dead men can do.


Another claim without any evidence at all.


Well, this is true, but not in the way you think. There will be A resurrection of the saved and a resurrection of the unsaved per Acts 24:15. God will resurrect the spritually dead people to attend the Great White Throne judgment in Rev 20:11-15.


No, God does not FORCE (provoke) anyone to respond to His offer of grace.

In fact, because the grace of God OFFERS salvation proves that God does NOT provoke anyone.

If I told you once, I told you a dozen times, Ephesians 2:8 states that faith is a gift. You are dense for a hypergracer.

Yes, God does provoke with HIS omnipotence and HIS perfect righteousness and HIS perfect love.

Those who HEAR will live. As I said, DENSE.

 

[FreeGrace2]

But all do not come because all will not come./QUOTE]
Right, Jerry. That's a choice that men make from their heart. God doesn't FORCE anyone.

Who are the elect and the called? Aren't they the one's who come?

Paul was specific about who are the elect of God. In Eph 1:4 it says "God chose US...to be holy and blamess". Then Paul defined "us" in v.19 as "us who believe". So in this verse, God chose believers to be holy and blameless.

And we find that same message in other verses.

2 Tim 1:9 - He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time

 

[FreeGrace2]

If I told you once, I told you a dozen times, Ephesians 2:8 states that faith is a gift. You are dense for a hypergracer.

And I've told you MORE TIMES that it isn't. The "added" words "it is" are clearly implied in the Greek, and so that's why Greek scholars put those words in the translation. And the phrase "it is of God" is masculine, just as salvation, and "faith" is feminine, so what is of God isn't faith, but salvation itself.

Yes, God does provoke with HIS omnipotence and HIS perfect righteousness and HIS perfect love.

Those who HEAR will live. As I said, DENSE.

Your claims are without any evidence.

btw, "those who hear" are described as DEAD MEN. Which you have said can't believe.

 

[Grandpa]

You misquoted the verse.

Jesus said that "ALL that come unto me".
So, you have a real problem with that word "ALL" because it does not fit your Calvinism.

Lets look at "all" again.

Jesus said...>"if i be lifted up (the Cross) I will draw ALL men to me".

John 3:16, says........"For God so loved the Elect"............ummm no.
It says....."For God so loved the WORLD............. that He Gave Jesus..........that WHOSOEVER believes in Him.....shall not perish, but HAVE eternal life".

Notice that you HAVE eternal life if you BELIEVE......and the offer of Eternal Life is to "whosoever".
That means "All who will believe".

So, the OFFER of Salvation is to EVERYONE, but only those who BELIEVE will receive it.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Evmur]

Have you ever met a true Calvinist?
A real one that will define themselves as a Calvinist.
Want me to send you to at least one Forum, where all the Mods and most of the Members are Calvinsist's?

Here is what they teach..

"God causes everything to happen".

"God created Evil"

So, these Calvinist nutbars teach that because God causes everything, that means RAPE, MURDER< INCEST< CHILD PORN, HITLER, ......"all evil", is "God created".

So i can show you the link, if you want to read their theological insanity.

Do you watch movies?

Every heard of a Movie.....or seen it.......from the '80s.....>"The Boy Who Could Fly"?

I love this movie........
I once dealt with the boy in the movie, who is grown now.
He lives in California, and is a true "pre-destined" elect, flake.
I talked to him for a while and tried to get him out of this cult mindset, but, these types are so hardened, and so spiritually blinded, that you really have to get them out of their cult (church)........to help them, and he was not about to leave his group.

Of course God created evil

... He did not create man for evil or to have knowledge of it.

 

[fredoheaven]

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:45

King James Version

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

I viewed, the word “except” John 6:44 as connected to “come” rather than “draw”. Jesus cited what’s written by Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Micah and how every man “cometh” to Jesus. This follows that coming to Christ are the ff:

1. There must be teaching about God or his words “taught of God”

2. There must be hearing “hath heard”

3. There must be learning “Learned”

Yes, the Fathers draw every person to Christ but every person may “can come” or will not come. It is only the coming man to Christ to be “IN Christ”.

 

[phil36]

Faith Elects.

God saves.

It is God who elects:

For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love - Ephesians 1:4

He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, - 2 Timothy 1:9

Notice election is according to God's purpose and will.

Faith is not the cause of election. Faith is a fruit of election : It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. - Romans 9:16

Yes it is God who saves.