Being born of water and Spirit

[Pilgrimshope]

Romans 6:1-7
1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Amen here’s another accounting from Paul’s epistles of the same witness

“in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:11-13‬ ‭

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38

this subject is like it is because of the distorted grace doctrine of never having to do anything our lord and God said we need to do. Never even needing to hear what he actually said

 

[Blain]

Romans 6:1-7
1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7For he that is dead is freed from sin.

See there is a problem here you cannot cherry pick a part of the verse to say what you want it to say. take a good look at the whole picture of the verse and what is it talking about? it is talking about living as a new person away from living in sin living as the new man leaving the old sin nature it speaks of being resurrected symbolically not physically the lesson in thi9s verse is to walk as a new person in Christ away from sin it is not speaking of the resurrection you are thinking of

 

[Runningman]

See there is a problem here you cannot cherry pick a part of the verse to say what you want it to say. take a good look at the whole picture of the verse and what is it talking about? it is talking about living as a new person away from living in sin living as the new man leaving the old sin nature it speaks of being resurrected symbolically not physically the lesson in thi9s verse is to walk as a new person in Christ away from sin it is not speaking of the resurrection you are thinking of

My line of thinking on this is that we do not literally die and get resurrected like Christ does during Spirit baptism since our Spirits are already dead prior to the baptism so a "symbolic" death isn't what Romans 6:1-7 is saying. So Romans 6:1-7 is clearly not a description of Spiritual baptism.

However, it's possible to have a symbolic death and resurrection through water baptism which is a work of faith, but even water baptism is not literal death or resurrection. So what is this Romans 6 passage talking about? It's referencing a literal body death and literal body resurrection which will occur later.

Conclusively, Romans 6:1-7, especially verse 5, is about a literal death and resurrection and water baptism is required to be in the resurrection. I don't know how that fits into your theology or if that just "creates a lot of problems" for you, but that is the rightly-divided word of God, explained clearly, as far as I am concerned.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

See there is a problem here you cannot cherry pick a part of the verse to say what you want it to say. take a good look at the whole picture of the verse and what is it talking about? it is talking about living as a new person away from living in sin living as the new man leaving the old sin nature it speaks of being resurrected symbolically not physically the lesson in thi9s verse is to walk as a new person in Christ away from sin it is not speaking of the resurrection you are thinking of

“take a good look at the whole picture of the verse and what is it talking about?”

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he’s speaking to those who have been baptized about the power to live a new life . to erase baptism from the subject matter eliminates any understanding of baptism we’re going to ever learn.

baptism is for the remission of sins in the name of Jesus Christ that’s why Paul’s explaining all that it’s about being baptized into Jesus death for our sins willingly because we hear believe and repent

Again he’s explaining why we’re submerged after beginning explainkng “ you were baptized into his death “

“For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:5-7‬ ‭

Baptism for the remission of sins is the subject matter pauls just explaining the inner workings of it. The functionality of it your places below the water in death and burial of Jesus Christ because you believe the gospel about him dying for our sins and then you are raised up from the water. It relates to faith in the death , burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ that’s what we could learn out baptism. If we were to read the Bible

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,


and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s actually a lot in Paul’s epistles about it but if we start our rejecting the foundations of what baptism is for it will never make sense

 

[Runningman]

Amen here’s another accounting from Paul’s epistles of the same witness

“in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:11-13‬ ‭

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38

this subject is like it is because of the distorted grace doctrine of never having to do anything our lord and God said we need to do. Never even needing to hear what he actually said

How do you like the term "actions of faith" describe what we should do with our faith?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

How do you like the term "actions of faith" describe what we should do with our faith?

sounds about right actions , works , deeds ect the gospel is made of faith everything in it is the same way the process is to hear what he said , believe what he said is true and then act in that belief “ the actions of faith “

the gospel is all about what we hear and believe and do from that new belief we hear in the gospel.

a good analogy would be if God told us there’s a billion dollars in our bank account all we have to do is go withdraw it . This doesn’t change that it’s a free gift even if I say “ don’t spend your money on prostitutes or wine and wild living or anything sinful “

this still doesn’t change that it’s a gift even if it comes with instructions for me to actually do. We’re really messing up by. Constantly debating the validity of Gods word of salvation we need to hear and believe it and then we are going to act in it it’s like a reaction hear believe and then we react to that belief of what God said

From the start we know what God says is immutable and will be as he spoke it that’s l any Christian needs to grasp when the gospel established something and we learn it it’s never going to change or be ineffective baptism , communion , every aspect of our moral
Life and deeds that we do it’s always going to go back to what Jesus said that’s our new reality as Christians

even if we don’t see the proof the proof is what he said we walk by that faith , but we do absolutely need to learn to take steps of faith and start walking out our faith in truth

 

[Blain]

My line of thinking on this is that we do not literally die and get resurrected like Christ does during Spirit baptism since our Spirits are already dead prior to the baptism so a "symbolic" death isn't what Romans 6:1-7 is saying. So Romans 6:1-7 is clearly not a description of Spiritual baptism.

However, it's possible to have a symbolic death and resurrection through water baptism which is a work of faith, but even water baptism is not literal death or resurrection. So what is this Romans 6 passage talking about? It's referencing a literal body death and literal body resurrection which will occur later.

Conclusively, Romans 6:1-7, especially verse 5, is about a literal death and resurrection and water baptism is required to be in the resurrection. I don't know how that fits into your theology or if that just "creates a lot of problems" for you, but that is the rightly-divided word of God, explained clearly, as far as I am concerned.

I wouldn't say your completely off base as i agree with your view on what baptism is for and how it is symbolic however i disagree with your stance on the resurrection and in particular your understanding of the verse because this verse is speaking on sin and tthe living as a new man ion Christ free from sin it speaks on baptism speaks of Christs death and resurection and yes it speaks of our death in Christ but then goes on to say to walk in the newness of life. if one has died and been resurrected then there would be no need to walk in the newness of life and yet Paul continues on with the rest of the verse speaking on being free from sin and living a life free from sin.

Again this verse is not about the resurrection you are wanting it to be about it's about being made new in Christ and being free from sin, see you picked a part of the verse that fit your narrative and based the rest of the verse on that part you picked out therefore making it say one thing yet i took the entire verse as a whole first then took the part you picked out to understand what it was actually saying and even then i am sure i didn't fully grasp it as it is a very deep verse.

Maybe you don't realize it but what you did is very dangerous, you cherry picked a part of the verse and made the rest of the verse be put together based on the part you cherry picked that is a dangerous thing to do with scripture you will miss the point of the verse entirely if you do that.

I looked at the verse as a whole first then looked at the part you cherry picked and understood what that part was saying, the resurrection in question is symbolic in nature not because of how it is worded but rather because of the words that surround it you have to look at the forest not the tree

 

[Blain]

“take a good look at the whole picture of the verse and what is it talking about?”

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he’s speaking to those who have been baptized about the power to live a new life . to erase baptism from the subject matter eliminates any understanding of baptism we’re going to ever learn.

baptism is for the remission of sins in the name of Jesus Christ that’s why Paul’s explaining all that it’s about being baptized into Jesus death for our sins willingly because we hear believe and repent

Again he’s explaining why we’re submerged after beginning explainkng “ you were baptized into his death “

“For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:5-7‬ ‭

Baptism for the remission of sins is the subject matter pauls just explaining the inner workings of it. The functionality of it your places below the water in death and burial of Jesus Christ because you believe the gospel about him dying for our sins and then you are raised up from the water. It relates to faith in the death , burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ that’s what we could learn out baptism. If we were to read the Bible

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,


and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s actually a lot in Paul’s epistles about it but if we start our rejecting the foundations of what baptism is for it will never make sense

I have no issue with what water baptism is for my only issue is that it is one of the requirements for the resurrection as i have not found enough evidence in scripture to support that belief

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I have no issue with what water baptism is for my only issue is that it is one of the requirements for the resurrection as i have not found enough evidence in scripture to support that belief

yeah I’m not sure about that either not saying it’s not true I just don’t know myself about it.


But consider that you agree baptism is for remission of sins and Jesus said this if we don’t have remission of our sins

“Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come. And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:21, 23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see if we die in our sins is one thing and he says we can’t go where he’s going but in the other hand he says to his disciples who all received remission of sins

“Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:1-4, 6‬ ‭

when we get baptized for remission of sins when we die , we aren’t dying in our sins we already died with Christ for sin our sins caused his death were placed on Jesus and he suffered and died for them to take them on himself in death to pay the wages of our sin

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so when we die , we’re dying as of we have no sin because Christ took them on himself. We get baptized because it’s our response to bekieving that remission of sins is ultra important to the afterlife and where we go whether we die in sin , or whether we have remission of sins.

as far as the resurrection every human will be resurrected both good and evil baptized and non baptized believers and deniers to face judgement


“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to enter the kingdom though to go where Jesus has prepared that place for his disciples and not die in our sins we need remission of sin because we aren’t sinless we’re all guilty already of sin we need remission now in order that we don’t die in sin

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭

if we believe in Jesus we’ll get baptized gladly knowing it’s purpose but I’m not sure either about the resurrection I was just saying remission of sins is a vital subject and God has a proscribed baptism for remission of sins

 

[Runningman]

I wouldn't say your completely off base as i agree with your view on what baptism is for and how it is symbolic however i disagree with your stance on the resurrection and in particular your understanding of the verse because this verse is speaking on sin and tthe living as a new man ion Christ free from sin it speaks on baptism speaks of Christs death and resurection and yes it speaks of our death in Christ but then goes on to say to walk in the newness of life. if one has died and been resurrected then there would be no need to walk in the newness of life and yet Paul continues on with the rest of the verse speaking on being free from sin and living a life free from sin.

Again this verse is not about the resurrection you are wanting it to be about it's about being made new in Christ and being free from sin, see you picked a part of the verse that fit your narrative and based the rest of the verse on that part you picked out therefore making it say one thing yet i took the entire verse as a whole first then took the part you picked out to understand what it was actually saying and even then i am sure i didn't fully grasp it as it is a very deep verse.

Maybe you don't realize it but what you did is very dangerous, you cherry picked a part of the verse and made the rest of the verse be put together based on the part you cherry picked that is a dangerous thing to do with scripture you will miss the point of the verse entirely if you do that.

I looked at the verse as a whole first then looked at the part you cherry picked and understood what that part was saying, the resurrection in question is symbolic in nature not because of how it is worded but rather because of the words that surround it you have to look at the forest not the tree

I hear you, but I am forming my understanding of the Romans 6:1-7 passage around other verses about water baptism, too, such as John 3:5 (born of water and Spirit), 1 Peter 3:21 (water baptism saves by the resurrection of Jesus Christ), and 1 Corinthians 15:29 (water baptism immersion necessary to be resurrected). To me that isn't dangerous as these passages regarding water baptism and resurrection seem quite clear to me. This isn't cherry-picked, reframed, or taken out of context to fit some wild narrative.

Consider Ezekiel 36:24-27 which speaks of rebirth through water and Spirit just like John 3:5 says. This is what Nicodemus, a master of Israel according to Jesus in John 3:10, didn't seem to understand.

Ezekiel 36:24-27 KJV
24For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them

 

[DavidTree]

My line of thinking on this is that we do not literally die and get resurrected like Christ does during Spirit baptism since our Spirits are already dead prior to the baptism so a "symbolic" death isn't what Romans 6:1-7 is saying. So Romans 6:1-7 is clearly not a description of Spiritual baptism.

However, it's possible to have a symbolic death and resurrection through water baptism which is a work of faith, but even water baptism is not literal death or resurrection. So what is this Romans 6 passage talking about? It's referencing a literal body death and literal body resurrection which will occur later.

Conclusively, Romans 6:1-7, especially verse 5, is about a literal death and resurrection and water baptism is required to be in the resurrection. I don't know how that fits into your theology or if that just "creates a lot of problems" for you, but that is the rightly-divided word of God, explained clearly, as far as I am concerned.

CORRECT = your understanding of the symolism of water baptism

However, you came to a conclusion that is NEVER stated in Scripture = not once...........ever.............never

HIS Shed BLOOD and HIS Resurrection is stated OVER and OVER, AGAIN and AGAIN as the ONLY means for Salvation and Resurrection.

Water is wet and sin remains but His BLOOD sticks to ALL sin and washes it away = "as far as the east is from the west."

 

[DavidTree]

yes its not live birth. anyone who says that is just trying to wiggle their way out of water baptism.

the LORD Jesus said so and you disagree with HIM.......................sad

"Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit."

The LORD never mentioned 'water baptism' in John 3:1-21

Never = not once

 

[Blain]

yeah I’m not sure about that either not saying it’s not true I just don’t know myself about it.


But consider that you agree baptism is for remission of sins and Jesus said this if we don’t have remission of our sins

“Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come. And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:21, 23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see if we die in our sins is one thing and he says we can’t go where he’s going but in the other hand he says to his disciples who all received remission of sins

“Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:1-4, 6‬ ‭

when we get baptized for remission of sins when we die , we aren’t dying in our sins we already died with Christ for sin our sins caused his death were placed on Jesus and he suffered and died for them to take them on himself in death to pay the wages of our sin

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so when we die , we’re dying as of we have no sin because Christ took them on himself. We get baptized because it’s our response to bekieving that remission of sins is ultra important to the afterlife and where we go whether we die in sin , or whether we have remission of sins.

as far as the resurrection every human will be resurrected both good and evil baptized and non baptized believers and deniers to face judgement


“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to enter the kingdom though to go where Jesus has prepared that place for his disciples and not die in our sins we need remission of sin because we aren’t sinless we’re all guilty already of sin we need remission now in order that we don’t die in sin

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭

if we believe in Jesus we’ll get baptized gladly knowing it’s purpose but I’m not sure either about the resurrection I was just saying remission of sins is a vital subject and God has a proscribed baptism for remission of sins

I find that water baptism paints a beautiful picture of repentance and bondage to Christ a declaration of complete devotion to him it is symbolic in several ways and so I am all for encouraging one to be baptized I do however have issue with others making it more than what it's intended purpose and so the reason i confronted @Runningman about this was to try to put an end to this debate on the resurrection thing as i saw how the last thread went down and it wasn't good quite frankly i purposely stayed away from it knowing how it would play out i knew exactly how it would go down and that no amount of debating or evidence would change anything what id din't count on was another thread about the subject so i wanted actual evidence to prove his point not the same things i saw in the other threrad from both sides actual scriptural evidence.

But the verse offered while speaking of resurrection was not what i was asking for it speaks of a resurrection yes but a symbolic one which is what baptism is about of course however it doesn't satisfy my need for proof that it is the requirement for the resurrection of the saints.

 

[Blain]

I hear you, but I am forming my understanding of the Romans 6:1-7 passage around other verses about water baptism, too, such as John 3:5 (born of water and Spirit), 1 Peter 3:21 (water baptism saves by the resurrection of Jesus Christ), and 1 Corinthians 15:29 (water baptism immersion necessary to be resurrected). To me that isn't dangerous as these passages regarding water baptism and resurrection seem quite clear to me. This isn't cherry-picked, reframed, or taken out of context to fit some wild narrative.

Consider Ezekiel 36:24-27 which speaks of rebirth through water and Spirit just like John 3:5 says. This is what Nicodemus, a master of Israel according to Jesus in John 3:10, didn't seem to understand.

Ezekiel 36:24-27 KJV
24For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them

Yes and much of what you are basing your understanding on can be explained away 1 Corinthians 15:29 for example, you are focusing on the baptism aspect but if you read the whole chapter what is he speaking about and to who? he is speaking to the church who is doubting in the resurrection whose faith in the resurrection of the dead is failing and Pauls is saying to them how if this is true then those who died in Christ were baptized in vain those who believed beleived in vain you have to like i said look at the whole picture.

Again i just don't see any actual evidence to support your theory yes the bible mentions baptism and new life and new birth but not usually in a literal sense, anything relating to the resurrection when it comes to the baptism is always used ina symbolic manner and you know this by the way the wording is placed in scripture.See as a writer i pay attention to little details like that, a words meaning can mean something different depending on where it is placed and what words surround it every time resurrection is used concerning baptism it is never used in a literal sense at least not in the way that it is a requirement for the resurrection the only requirement that seems to be required is that you believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[Runningman]

Yes and much of what you are basing your understanding on can be explained away 1 Corinthians 15:29 for example, you are focusing on the baptism aspect but if you read the whole chapter what is he speaking about and to who? he is speaking to the church who is doubting in the resurrection whose faith in the resurrection of the dead is failing and Pauls is saying to them how if this is true then those who died in Christ were baptized in vain those who believed beleived in vain you have to like i said look at the whole picture.

Again i just don't see any actual evidence to support your theory yes the bible mentions baptism and new life and new birth but not usually in a literal sense, anything relating to the resurrection when it comes to the baptism is always used ina symbolic manner and you know this by the way the wording is placed in scripture.See as a writer i pay attention to little details like that, a words meaning can mean something different depending on where it is placed and what words surround it every time resurrection is used concerning baptism it is never used in a literal sense at least not in the way that it is a requirement for the resurrection the only requirement that seems to be required is that you believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Okay please provide supporting verses for your theory.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

the LORD Jesus said so and you disagree with HIM.......................sad

"Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit."

The LORD never mentioned 'water baptism' in John 3:1-21

Never = not once

according to your interpretation of the verse that is 😇

Okay please provide supporting verses for your theory.

it’s amazing how something is so plain and repetitive but then It just floats by and gets explained away by what’s not there , this is a frustrating subject in this forum because it’s so basic and fundamental it’s like if we can’t understand basics how can we ever learn anything else

 

[GaryA]

The word 'baptize'/'baptism' [literally] means 'immerse'/'immersion'.

Whenever you see a 'baptize' word in scripture, read it as the equivalent 'immerse' word.

When you see a phrase like 'baptized into', whatever follows the 'into' is what is being immersed into.

None of the 'baptism' words in Romans 6:1-7 are referring to water baptism.

In Romans 6:3, the phrase 'baptized into Jesus Christ' is not referring to water baptism - because, water is not what is being immersed into.

What is being immersed into is Jesus Christ.

Not every 'baptize' word in scripture is referring to water baptism - some of them are referring to other forms of 'immersion'.

 

[Blain]

Okay please provide supporting verses for your theory.

What theory? I have no theory to prove I only am explaining why yours isn't working. See if your beleif is in truth then you should be ablee to provide me actual proof of it not loop around verses and picking parts of the verses that suite your theory, we test our beleiefs against scripture if it cannot stand then it is not truth we don't try to make it fit we either accept it isn't true or we we don't.

I asked you for concrete scriptural evidence that water baptism is required for the resurrection so far i have been able to explain why the evidence you provided does not do this and the main reason for both of them is the same thing you pick a part of the verse to base it one instead of taking the whole picture first

 

[Blain]

The word 'baptize'/'baptism' [literally] means 'immerse'/'immersion'.

Whenever you see a 'baptize' word in scripture, read it as the equivalent 'immerse' word.

When you see a phrase like 'baptized into', whatever follows the 'into' is what is being immersed into.

None of the 'baptism' words in Romans 6:1-7 are referring to water baptism.

In Romans 6:3, the phrase 'baptized into Jesus Christ' is not referring to water baptism - because, water is not what is being immersed into.

What is being immersed into is Jesus Christ.

Not every 'baptize' word in scripture is referring to water baptism - some of them are referring to other forms of 'immersion'.

 

[Runningman]

The word 'baptize'/'baptism' [literally] means 'immerse'/'immersion'.

Whenever you see a 'baptize' word in scripture, read it as the equivalent 'immerse' word.

When you see a phrase like 'baptized into', whatever follows the 'into' is what is being immersed into.

None of the 'baptism' words in Romans 6:1-7 are referring to water baptism.

In Romans 6:3, the phrase 'baptized into Jesus Christ' is not referring to water baptism - because, water is not what is being immersed into.

What is being immersed into is Jesus Christ.

Not every 'baptize' word in scripture is referring to water baptism - some of them are referring to other forms of 'immersion'.

Please see post #163 as I explained my line of thinking on that subject there. From what I can tell it is most likely a water baptism, not the water itself being the literal body of Christ or the Spirit. Like all things, the baptism is an action of faith or a work of faith.