Being born of water and Spirit

[Runningman]

What theory? I have no theory to prove I only am explaining why yours isn't working. See if your beleif is in truth then you should be ablee to provide me actual proof of it not loop around verses and picking parts of the verses that suite your theory, we test our beleiefs against scripture if it cannot stand then it is not truth we don't try to make it fit we either accept it isn't true or we we don't.

I asked you for concrete scriptural evidence that water baptism is required for the resurrection so far i have been able to explain why the evidence you provided does not do this and the main reason for both of them is the same thing you pick a part of the verse to base it one instead of taking the whole picture first

I provided you with the verses you asked for and, predictably, you rejected them without quoting verses that explain why what I said is just a theory and why what you said is not a theory.

Your commentary is not scripture nor do you have the privilege or creating doctrines out of thin air without any supporting scriptural evidence. I have gone to great lengths to document what I believe about "water and Spirit" according to John 3:5 and the resurrection and how it relates to water baptism. It's all here in the discussion.

Actually, I have researched this resurrection topic quite a bit lately and I don't see anything that says resurrection occurs exclusively through faith, but I see many verses that mention water baptism for the resurrection.

 

[Blain]

I provided you with the verses you asked for and, predictably, you rejected them without quoting verses that explain why what I said is just a theory and why what you said is not a theory.

Your commentary is not scripture nor do you have the privilege or creating doctrines out of thin air without any supporting scriptural evidence. I have gone to great lengths to document what I believe about "water and Spirit" according to John 3:5 and the resurrection and how it relates to water baptism. It's all here in the discussion.

Actually, I have researched this resurrection topic quite a bit lately and I don't see anything that says resurrection occurs exclusively through faith, but I see many verses that mention water baptism for the resurrection.

ok yes you provided scripture but as i said you focused first on part of the verse instead of looking at the scripture as a whole to see what it was actually saying if it speaks about sin then about baptism and resurrection then about living in new life then you cannot take the baptism part in the middle and base your theory on the middle when the rest of the scripture speaks about sin and living as a new person.

With every verse you gave me i saw you picked the baptism aspect of it first instead of reading and taking the scripture as a whole then the baptism that is where your mistake was and that is what i was trying to get you to see. one can know scripture and read it and post it but to understand it you have tyo do it in a certain way i am a writer so i know how to understand how to read and understand the order in which words are used if they are read or used out of order then they are made to say something else

Now as for my theory tell me what theory of mine are you talking about that is required that i provide scriptural evidence for and i will try to do so

 

[Runningman]

ok yes you provided scripture but as i said you focused first on part of the verse instead of looking at the scripture as a whole to see what it was actually saying if it speaks about sin then about baptism and resurrection then about living in new life then you cannot take the baptism part in the middle and base your theory on the middle when the rest of the scripture speaks about sin and living as a new person.

With every verse you gave me i saw you picked the baptism aspect of it first instead of reading and taking the scripture as a whole then the baptism that is where your mistake was and that is what i was trying to get you to see. one can know scripture and read it and post it but to understand it you have tyo do it in a certain way i am a writer so i know how to understand how to read and understand the order in which words are used if they are read or used out of order then they are made to say something else

Now as for my theory tell me what theory of mine are you talking about that is required that i provide scriptural evidence for and i will try to do so

I quote a few verses so I am not pasting entire books and chapters into the forum. I encourage everyone to open their Bible to read the whole context to get a better idea.

You're still referencing yourself and normally that's okay if we are in agreement, but I am not sure what verses you are seeing that somehow contradicts the scriptures about water, Spirit, resurrection, and baptism I've quoted. I am not really sure how you aren't seeing this.

From my perspective the scriptures are in harmony and there are no good reasons for the Bible to mention that baptism is necessary for resurrection and then that position be reversed after by a different scripture. I don't like to pit scripture against scripture to disprove itself as some people seem to. Maybe this just isn't for everyone.

 

[Mem]

The word 'baptize'/'baptism' [literally] means 'immerse'/'immersion'.

Whenever you see a 'baptize' word in scripture, read it as the equivalent 'immerse' word.

When you see a phrase like 'baptized into', whatever follows the 'into' is what is being immersed into.

None of the 'baptism' words in Romans 6:1-7 are referring to water baptism.

In Romans 6:3, the phrase 'baptized into Jesus Christ' is not referring to water baptism - because, water is not what is being immersed into.

What is being immersed into is Jesus Christ.

Not every 'baptize' word in scripture is referring to water baptism - some of them are referring to other forms of 'immersion'.

Surely, this idea is what is entirely missed. Getting baptized into red ink would result in a person emerging from it completely red, unless water is involved that is, which in that case then they'd emerge a sort of watered-down pink.

 

[Blain]

I quote a few verses so I am not pasting entire books and chapters into the forum. I encourage everyone to open their Bible to read the whole context to get a better idea.

You're still referencing yourself and normally that's okay if we are in agreement, but I am not sure what verses you are seeing that somehow contradicts the scriptures about water, Spirit, resurrection, and baptism I've quoted. I am not really sure how you aren't seeing this.

From my perspective the scriptures are in harmony and there are no good reasons for the Bible to mention that baptism is necessary for resurrection and then that position be reversed after by a different scripture. I don't like to pit scripture against scripture to disprove itself as some people seem to. Maybe this just isn't for everyone.

There is no issue with you quoting a few verses but you did so without either reading or remembering what the rest of the chapter was saying what's more as mentioned before you picked a part of the verse you did post and based your main point off that but the rest of the verse if read correctly says something else.

ok lets say your reading a story or reading a song the lyrics of a song if read in the correct order say one thing but if you read a small section of it first then it says something else. The issue with your method of understanding here is that you have to make the pieces fit together the scriptures don't say it is required they don't even imply it but if you do a little interpretation here and there then it sort of does. the issue is that the bible is like a beautiful song the notes should be in perfect melody and harmony it shouldn't require that we interpret anything or that it might imply something or not it should either say something or not.

otherwise the notes sound off key the melody is wrong the song sounds wacky. Now it isn't just an issue of resurrection it is baptism in general which seems to be a real debate issue lately in cc I agree with you that it is an act of faith i also believe it is about being immersed in Christ and in water but when it comes to the resurrection if you wish i can pull up every verse about the resurrection and show you what is said about it because none of them mention baptism but almost all of them do mention Christ which leads me to believe that the only requirement for the resurrection is to be found in Christ

 

[DavidTree]

according to your interpretation of the verse that is 😇


it’s amazing how something is so plain and repetitive but then It just floats by and gets explained away by what’s not there , this is a frustrating subject in this forum because it’s so basic and fundamental it’s like if we can’t understand basics how can we ever learn anything else

This is basic grammar/sentence structure = "that which is flesh is flesh and that which is Spirit is spirit"

So is this = "the wind blows where it wishes"
and this = "you hear the sound"
and this = "but you do not know where it comes from and where it goes"
and this = "so it is with everyone born of the Spirit"

Which leaves this: "If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things?"

 

[DavidTree]

Surely, this idea is what is entirely missed. Getting baptized into red ink would result in a person emerging from it completely red, unless water is involved that is, which in that case then they'd emerge a sort of watered-down pink.

We are only cleansed by His Blood -
sounds crazy huh
not to God

 

[Runningman]

There is no issue with you quoting a few verses but you did so without either reading or remembering what the rest of the chapter was saying what's more as mentioned before you picked a part of the verse you did post and based your main point off that but the rest of the verse if read correctly says something else.

ok lets say your reading a story or reading a song the lyrics of a song if read in the correct order say one thing but if you read a small section of it first then it says something else. The issue with your method of understanding here is that you have to make the pieces fit together the scriptures don't say it is required they don't even imply it but if you do a little interpretation here and there then it sort of does. the issue is that the bible is like a beautiful song the notes should be in perfect melody and harmony it shouldn't require that we interpret anything or that it might imply something or not it should either say something or not.

otherwise the notes sound off key the melody is wrong the song sounds wacky. Now it isn't just an issue of resurrection it is baptism in general which seems to be a real debate issue lately in cc I agree with you that it is an act of faith i also believe it is about being immersed in Christ and in water but when it comes to the resurrection if you wish i can pull up every verse about the resurrection and show you what is said about it because none of them mention baptism but almost all of them do mention Christ which leads me to believe that the only requirement for the resurrection is to be found in Christ

Okay I hear you. I agree that salvation of the soul comes through faith in Christ. That’s for sure! John 3:16. I believe that 100%.

I just see resurrection connected to baptism and that’s all I’m saying.

 

[DavidTree]

Okay I hear you. I agree that salvation of the soul comes through faith in Christ. That’s for sure! John 3:16. I believe that 100%.

I just see resurrection connected to baptism and that’s all I’m saying.

AWESOME - me too!

 

[peldom10]

Okay I hear you. I agree that salvation of the soul comes through faith in Christ. That’s for sure! John 3:16. I believe that 100%.

I just see resurrection connected to baptism and that’s all I’m saying.

If one has faith then one will follow God's commandments including the commandment to be baptized...there is no faith if one does not follow God's commandments.;

Baptism is Required



Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

Acts 19:4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.”

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

.......If you were baptized for some reason other than for forgiveness of sins in order to be saved then you do not have salvation and you are still lost. Who are you going to follow: God or man? As our Lord warns us in Matthew 15:14, "And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a ditch." Don't allow someone, who has added to and taken away from God's word, to lead you. Open your eyes and read God's word for yourself. Those who have added to and taken away from God's word will be lost. If you continue to follow them, then you too will be lost.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).

 

[ChristianTonyB]

If one has faith then one will follow God's commandments including the commandment to be baptized...there is no faith if one does not follow God's commandments.;

Baptism is Required



Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

Acts 19:4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.”

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

.......If you were baptized for some reason other than for forgiveness of sins in order to be saved then you do not have salvation and you are still lost. Who are you going to follow: God or man? As our Lord warns us in Matthew 15:14, "And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a ditch." Don't allow someone, who has added to and taken away from God's word, to lead you. Open your eyes and read God's word for yourself. Those who have added to and taken away from God's word will be lost. If you continue to follow them, then you too will be lost.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).

You are wrong P10. You can quote as many scriptures as you like, but it won't change the fact that you are wrong. I, and I suspect some others here, are cases in point. I understand your want to protect the integrity of scripture, but the sole authority over scripture is the Spirit, and He is not controlled by legalism, but by godly compassion and the moral rectitude that goes hand in hand with that. Consider the disciples collecting and eating the wheat grains because of their hunger on the Sabbath, and how the Pharisees rebuked them for apparently profaning the law covering the Sabbath. What was Jesus' response?

 

[Melach]

the LORD Jesus said so and you disagree with HIM.......................sad

"Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit."

The LORD never mentioned 'water baptism' in John 3:1-21

Never = not once

you must be born of water and spirit........ yet everyone is automatically born of water already? thats just retarded man.

 

[Runningman]

If one has faith then one will follow God's commandments including the commandment to be baptized...there is no faith if one does not follow God's commandments.;

Baptism is Required



Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

Acts 19:4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.”

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

.......If you were baptized for some reason other than for forgiveness of sins in order to be saved then you do not have salvation and you are still lost. Who are you going to follow: God or man? As our Lord warns us in Matthew 15:14, "And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a ditch." Don't allow someone, who has added to and taken away from God's word, to lead you. Open your eyes and read God's word for yourself. Those who have added to and taken away from God's word will be lost. If you continue to follow them, then you too will be lost.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).

Yes I am fully aware what the New Testament says about water baptism. What do you think/feel about spiritual rebirth through Holy Spirit baptism and glorified resurrection through water baptism?

Consider this mystery…

1 John 5:5-8
5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

John 3:5
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Ezekiel 36:25-27
25I will also sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your impurities and all your idols. 26I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.27And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes and to carefully observe My ordinances.

Do you see the differences between the spirit and the glorified resurrected body here?

 

[Runningman]

you must be born of water and spirit........ yet everyone is automatically born of water already? thats just retarded man.

I don’t think Jesus meant to tell people they need to be alive to be born. Just doesn’t sound like something God would say and doesn’t sit well with my spirit. Water and Spirit seems like literal water and the Holy Spirit to me.

 

[Blain]

Okay I hear you. I agree that salvation of the soul comes through faith in Christ. That’s for sure! John 3:16. I believe that 100%.

I just see resurrection connected to baptism and that’s all I’m saying.

ok and if you believe this then you are entitled to your own belief As I said in my earlier post your not completely off base so we can at least meet half way I do hope that our little bout was not to much of an issue or headache as I know it can become frustrating.

 

[Mem]

you must be born of water and spirit........ yet everyone is automatically born of water already? thats just retarded man.

It makes more sense when considering the truth that this world is temporal and so is passing away, along with all those that choose to remain 'natural' with it. Everyone born is presented with the opportunity to 'choose to believe' or choose to reject God. Given a basis of all the natural evidence, we are then compelled to then receive spiritual witness of God's existence. And since many do reject not only the natural evidence but also the spiritual calling, only those receiving all natural and spiritual witness will enter into the world to come, that is the truth and faithful reality of His eternal kingdom that will stand forever and never pass away.

 

[DavidTree]

you must be born of water and spirit........ yet everyone is automatically born of water already? thats just retarded man.

You think the LORD is retarded??? That's not smart..............

 

[Nehemiah6]

My line of thinking goes like this: if Jesus said "be born of water and Spirit" then what happened if I am only born of Spirit?

What if Jesus used "water" as a metaphor for the Word of God? Wouldn't that shoot down your whole theory? The fact of the matter is that you are promoting a false teaching. Here is the truth about the New Birth:

1 PETER 1: THE WORD OF GOD (the Gospel) IS THE "SEED" OF THE NEW BIRTH
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the Word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the Word which by the Gospel is preached unto you.

This is corroborated by John 1:12,13: But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

How does one believe on the name of Christ? Is it not through the preaching of the Gospel? And is it not those who believe who are "born of God"? Is there any mention of "water" here or is it all about the Gospel which generates faith in Christ and produces the New Birth?

So to go on and on in promoting a heresy means that (a) you refuse to believe the truth, (b) you are bound and determined to mislead and confuse people, and (c) that makes you a wolf in sheep's clothing. And then to take it a step further, and claim that only those who are water baptized will be resurrected is to totally undermine the Gospel.

BEWARE OF FALSE TEACHERS!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

This is basic grammar/sentence structure = "that which is flesh is flesh and that which is Spirit is spirit"

So is this = "the wind blows where it wishes"
and this = "you hear the sound"
and this = "but you do not know where it comes from and where it goes"
and this = "so it is with everyone born of the Spirit"

Which leaves this: "If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things?"

yes that’s what I’m saying that’s how your interpreting scripture

another person might look at it and say John just baptized in water and said Jesus would later baptize with the spirit

and Jesus was telling nicodemus who’s been baptized in water that to be born again he needed to also be born of the spirit

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:3-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I myself think he’s talking about being baptized In Water ( as tent all were ) for remission of sins and receiving the Holy Spirit

so for instance water for remission and receiving the spirit

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,


and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Spirit and water

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if Jesus was talking about water baptism it’s cohesive if he was talking about lol “ birthing fluids “ it makes no relevant sense with the rest of doctrine.

so what I was saying is that’s just how you read it others like myself don’t read it like that. Why would Jesus be talking about birthing fluids ? He wasn’t asked how is a baby born in the flesh ? He was asked about being born again and this occurs just after johns baltism in water for remission of sins began being spread through the land which John had promised the spirit later from the lord which happened at pentocost when they received the spirit and fire John foretold

notice they kept baptizing in water and promising the spirit even to Gentiles like chapter ten of acts there

how is a man born when he is old Jesus ? You must be born of water and spirit nicodemus.

seems basic b it that’s just how I myself read it , you read it differently is all I was getting at that’s your interpretation of it but it doesnt make sense with any of the rest of scripture eater baktism for remission of sins is consistently in the New Testament and receiving the spirit also


Consistently they are all born of water baptism for remission of sins , and receive the Holy Spirit but it’s no issue with me if you think he’s talking about a pregnant woman’s womb there I’m just saying it doesn’t make sense to me

Water baptism for the remission of sins is consistent and evident to me , you don’t agree but I’m ok with it it’s just what I personally believe from scripture and the evidence is overwhelming honestly

“Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:47-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

water and spirit don’t replace each other one is the church proscribed doctrine for baptism in water in his name remission of sins , the other is a gift based on the promise of Jesus Christ to give us the spirit

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

never has changed the baptism Jesus partook of in the river jordan is the right baptism the Holy Ghost comes from his promise and believing

 

[Runningman]

What if Jesus used "water" as a metaphor for the Word of God? Wouldn't that shoot down your whole theory? The fact of the matter is that you are promoting a false teaching. Here is the truth about the New Birth:

1 PETER 1: THE WORD OF GOD (the Gospel) IS THE "SEED" OF THE NEW BIRTH
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the Word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the Word which by the Gospel is preached unto you.

This is corroborated by John 1:12,13: But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

How does one believe on the name of Christ? Is it not through the preaching of the Gospel? And is it not those who believe who are "born of God"? Is there any mention of "water" here or is it all about the Gospel which generates faith in Christ and produces the New Birth?

So to go on and on in promoting a heresy means that (a) you refuse to believe the truth, (b) you are bound and determined to mislead and confuse people, and (c) that makes you a wolf in sheep's clothing. And then to take it a step further, and claim that only those who are water baptized will be resurrected is to totally undermine the Gospel.

BEWARE OF FALSE TEACHERS!

The Word and water are different. If you had actually read the first chapter of the book of John, which you quoted, you would know that. That makes you a false teacher or incredibly ignorant. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, the same benefit you refused to afford me, and say you have a lot to learn Mr. Nehemiah.

John 1:1 KJV
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 KJV
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

1 John 5:7,8 KJV
7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.