Are Women Not Allowed to Preach in Every Case?

[JeremiahsCup]

Women being placed in positions of authority is not "grabbing up authority". Something that a lot of people miss is that not everything that was written in the law was because God approved of it but because God lets us come to truth on our own. You seem to be forgetting Jesus' words on exercising authority and desiring positions of power from Matthew 20:25-27. Disciples of Christ don't seek to have power over anyone, they leave that to God. So its not meet for men or women to seek dominion over one another, but to lead each other and exhort each other to submit to the Lord.

Women are not placed in positions of authority by God as is made clear in the Bible. God's Kingdom cannot act against itself. When you see women in authority over men contrary to what the holy men of God in the Bible wrote, understand that they belong to another kingdom, and they will serve that kingdom rather than serve Lord God.

 

[Bbrdrd]

Women are not placed in positions of authority by God as is made clear in the Bible. God's Kingdom cannot act against itself. When you see women in authority over men contrary to what the holy men of God in the Bible wrote, understand that they belong to another kingdom, and they will serve that kingdom rather than serve Lord God.

Men ruling over women were part of the curse on Eve. The curses pronounced by God were reversed but to immediately rescind them would have brought chaos, so He brings us to them gradually. God's kingdom doesn't have one person having authority over another, we are all subject to God and God alone. It seems to me there's a need for those who demand women submit to ask whether they are doing so because they think it's God's order or because they seek to dominate and take the place of God in a womans life.

 

[Diakonos]

Women are not placed in positions of authority by God as is made clear in the Bible

Exactly. Perhaps we should answer this question in order to not stay into heretic paths:

-How we you explain God’s apparent endorsement of Old Testament women who had prophetic or leadership roles?

First, we keep in mind that God has no antipathy toward revealing his will to women. Nor does he pronounce them unreliable messengers. The differentiation of roles for men and women in ministry is rooted not in women’s incompetence to receive or transmit truth but in the primary responsibility of men in God’s order to lead and teach.
The instances of women who prophesied and led do not call this order into question. Rather, there are pointers in each case that the women either endorsed and honored the usual leadership of men or indicted men’s failures to lead. For example,
Miriam, the prophetess, focused her ministry, as far as we can tell, on the women of Israel (Ex. 15:20).
Deborah, a prophetess, judge, and mother in Israel (Judg. 4:4; 5:7), as with
Jael (Judg. 5:24–27), was a living indictment of the weakness of Barak and other men in Israel who should have been more courageous leaders (Judg. 4:9).

(The period of the judges is an especially precarious foundation for building a vision of God’s ideal for leadership. In those days, God was not averse to bringing about states of affairs that did not conform to his revealed will in order to achieve some wise purpose [ Judg. 14:4].) Similarly, Huldah evidently exercised her prophetic gift not in a public preaching ministry but by means of private consultation (2 Kings 22:14–20). And Anna, the prophetess at the beginning of the New Testament, filled her days with fasting and prayer in the temple (Luke 2:36–37). We must also keep in mind that God’s granting power or revelation to a person is no sure sign that this person is an ideal model for us to follow in every respect. This is evident, for example, from the fact that some of those whom God blessed in the Old Testament were polygamists (e.g., Abraham and David). Not even the gift of prophecy is proof of a person’s obedience and endorsement by God. As strange as this sounds, 1 Samuel 19:23–24, Matthew 7:22, and 1 Corinthians 13:2 show that this is so. Moreover, with each woman referred to above, we have an instance of a charismatic emergence on the scene, not an installation to the ordinary Old Testament office of priest, which was the responsibility of men.

 

[JeremiahsCup]

Men ruling over women were part of the curse on Eve. The curses pronounced by God were reversed but to immediately rescind them would have brought chaos, so He brings us to them gradually. God's kingdom doesn't have one person having authority over another, we are all subject to God and God alone. It seems to me there's a need for those who demand women submit to ask whether they are doing so because they think it's God's order or because they seek to dominate and take the place of God in a womans life.

Man was made the head of the woman, even before the curses. It is the nature of the creation; God made man in his image, God made the woman by taking her out of man, and she is in the glory of man.

The husband is indeed the lord over the wife, and he is made to be the dominant one. This is an illustration of God himself being Lord over the whole of creation.

 

[Bbrdrd]

Man was made the head of the woman, even before the curses. It is the nature of the creation; God made man in his image, God made the woman by taking her out of man, and she is in the glory of man.

The husband is indeed the lord over the wife, and he is made to be the dominant one. This is an illustration of God himself being Lord over the whole of creation.

If man was already the head, why did God need to place as a curse that she would be ruled by her husband? God made "man" in his image, male and female. It is men who try to usurp God rather than women usurping men when they try to take the place of God in a womans life and call themselves lord. Once again I point you to Jesus' words:

The kings of the Gentiles LORD it over them; and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors. 26But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves.



If men indeed are called to be head of their wives, then they must become their servants rather than their lords.

 

[Diakonos]

Men ruling over women were part of the curse on Eve. The curses pronounced by God were reversed but to immediately rescind them would have brought chaos, so He brings us to them gradually. God's kingdom doesn't have one person having authority over another, we are all subject to God and God alone. It seems to me there's a need for those who demand women submit to ask whether they are doing so because they think it's God's order or because they seek to dominate and take the place of God in a womans life.

Brother, Adam was ruling over all things that breathe (including Eve) before they fell. I already addressed this in post #217.

God's kingdom doesn't have one person having authority over another, we are all subject to God and God alone

IF that were the case, then Paul would not have commanded Titus to appoint Elders in every church (Titus 1:9). In fact, he even ended chapter 2 by saying "These things speak and exhort and reprove with all authority (Tit 2:15). Let no one disregard you". And to Timothy he said "let the Elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching."
The Hebrew writer commands us to "Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you".
"You younger men, likewise, be subject to your elders" (1 Pet 5:5)
Leadership now is a glimpse of what leadership will be like when the Kingdom is fully manifest and realized:
"they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
If Christ rules in your heart now, you will reign with Him then.
"and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ" (Rom 8:17).

 

[Diakonos]

Man was made the head of the woman, even before the curses. It is the nature of the creation; God made man in his image, God made the woman by taking her out of man, and she is in the glory of man.

The husband is indeed the lord over the wife, and he is made to be the dominant one. This is an illustration of God himself being Lord over the whole of creation.

A bold statement, but a correct one.

"For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husbands; just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear" (1 pet 3:5-6)

 

[JeremiahsCup]

If man was already the head, why did God need to place as a curse that she would be ruled by her husband? God made "man" in his image, male and female. It is men who try to usurp God rather than women usurping men when they try to take the place of God in a womans life and call themselves lord. Once again I point you to Jesus' words:

The kings of the Gentiles LORD it over them; and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors. 26But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves.



If men indeed are called to be head of their wives, then they must become their servants rather than their lords.

Well have you considered how the curses are laid out by how they fell. The woman being deceived was in the transgression. So it makes sense that the woman is to be subject to her husband because otherwise she is just going to listen to Satan.

God made man in his image. Out of man he made the woman whom is in the glory of man. Woman was made for man, not man for the woman. Male and female created God them.

Man was originally made to rule with God, and God did not think it robbery. The trickiness of the animal named Satan is that he has people think they can be like God by disobeying God, when in truth you were all ready like God, it is written that "you are gods, sons of the Most High." It is notable to this lie of Satan, that you can become like God by disobeying God, is the same lie which the woman ultimately fell for.

Doing that which God says about women and men is not bad as the wicked world would have you imagine. Rather it is very good to do what God and his holy men said, for they did not say it in vain, nor for opinion, but they wrote it that you might know what is right and acceptable to God.

1 Peter 3:1-7

1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.

3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;

4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:

6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.

7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

 

[JeremiahsCup]

A bold statement, but a correct one.

"For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husbands; just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear" (1 pet 3:5-6)

Lol aw you beat me by like a hair to the passage. The same chapter just came to my mind.

Also I don't find myself particularly bold for saying this, this was quite normal and understood for thousands of years until the current generations of wickedness rose up.

 

[Dino246]

The woman being deceived was in the transgression. So it makes sense that the woman is to be subject to her husband because otherwise she is just going to listen to Satan.

I know that we agreed to disagree, but if you post unbiblical c**p, I am going to address it. You are engaging in the fallacy of (gross) generalization and effectively slandering every female.

Man was originally made to rule with God, and God did not think it robbery.

Neither of those statements is scriptural. Humankind was made to rule with God, not just "malekind". God said, "Let them rule... male and female He created them (Genesis 1:26 - 27).

 

[Bbrdrd]

Lol aw you beat me by like a hair to the passage. The same chapter just came to my mind.

Also I don't find myself particularly bold for saying this, this was quite normal and understood for thousands of years until the current generations of wickedness rose up.

While it's clear we're not going to see eye to eye on men having dominion over women and I don't feel like explaining context of passage after passage to explain that this was a cultural expectation since in the end I doubt either of us will change our views on the same passages the wickedness of the recent generations is not that women seek equality but that women have sought dominance. Which speaks to Timothy since the verb refers to being domineering not simply having authority.

 

[JeremiahsCup]

I know that we agreed to disagree, but if you post unbiblical c**p, I am going to address it. You are engaging in the fallacy of (gross) generalization and effectively slandering every female.


Neither of those statements is scriptural. Humankind was made to rule with God, not just "malekind". God said, "Let them rule... male and female He created them (Genesis 1:26 - 27).

No, it is in the Bible. Paul cites this specifically when he states that it was Eve whom was deceived and was in transgression. One can even look around today and see how the women that are rebellious against their husbands are all highly evil. The deeds they do are not just a small evil, but what they do is even extraordinarily evil. The four generations alive today of the women, and the pathetic men that kowtow to them, are wicked because Satan has deceived them into rebelling against Man, and by extension rebelling against God in whose image the Man was made as well as rebelling against God's good order.
.
Also yes, God created Man in his image. In God's image he created him. Male and female he created them. The woman he took out of the Man for the Man, but Man was not made for the woman, but the woman was made for Man. All of this is in the scriptures, and it is good when men and women act like how God made them to act. And it is evil when they act contrary.

 

[JeremiahsCup]

While it's clear we're not going to see eye to eye on men having dominion over women and I don't feel like explaining context of passage after passage to explain that this was a cultural expectation since in the end I doubt either of us will change our views on the same passages the wickedness of the recent generations is not that women seek equality but that women have sought dominance. Which speaks to Timothy since the verb refers to being domineering not simply having authority.

Well I agree that the wicked women seek dominance, and this is not good for them. Yet it is not just the seeking of dominance which is a deception that old Satan has played them upon, but I think they seek the dominance because they are essentially rebelling against the clear fact that God made them to be submissive to their husbands. It's not a bad thing for a woman to submit to her husband, but the wicked generations of today have a way of trying to call what is good as "bad" and what is evil they try to call as "good."

 

[Dino246]

No, it is not in the Bible.

Fixed it for you.

 

[JeremiahsCup]

Fixed it for you.

What you mean is you're playing Satan's game of trying to change my words.

It is in the scriptures that Man is over the woman. It is in the scriptures that Eve, being in the transgression for listening to Satan is to submit to her husband and keep silence and not usurp authority over a man. These scriptures have been posted enough in just this topic alone to be seen.

You may be able to change someone's internet comment to try to escape from the truth of God, but you cannot change what is written in the Bible.

 

[Dino246]

What you mean is you're playing Satan's game of trying to change my words.

Yawn.

You may be able to change someone's internet comment to try to escape from the truth of God, but you cannot change what is written in the Bible.

Your statements in the post I addressed are not in the Bible. They aren't consistent with what is in the Bible. No amount of twisting is going to put them in the Bible.

 

[JeremiahsCup]

Yawn.


Your statements in the post I addressed are not in the Bible. They aren't consistent with what is in the Bible. No amount of twisting is going to put them in the Bible.

You are wrong. It is very clear in the Bible that women are to submit to their husbands. It is very clear both by the outright statement of Paul in Timothy and in the illustration in Genesis that rebellious women are used by Satan, and this is even more the reason that women ought to submit to their husbands.

It is written expressly in the Bible that God made Man in his image. In the image of God he created him. Male and female God created them. Man is the glory of God as he is made in God's direct image. Woman is the glory of man as she is made in man's image, taken out of the man, for which reason he called her woman. Just as God is to be the head of every man, man is to be the head of woman. This is the good and true order of God.

 

[Diakonos]

Lol aw you beat me by like a hair to the passage. The same chapter just came to my mind.

Also I don't find myself particularly bold for saying this, this was quite normal and understood for thousands of years until the current generations of wickedness rose up.

It was unexpected, but refreshing. Love rejoices i the Truth

 

[Diakonos]

God said, "Let them rule.

It's probably not a big deal.....but......"them" is actually added by translators. It should say "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and rule..." אָדָ֛ם (Adam) is in the singular form there.

 

[proverbs35]

Well have you considered how the curses are laid out by how they fell. The woman being deceived was in the transgression. So it makes sense that the woman is to be subject to her husband because otherwise she is just going to listen to Satan.

God made man in his image. Out of man he made the woman whom is in the glory of man. Woman was made for man, not man for the woman. Male and female created God them.

Man was originally made to rule with God, and God did not think it robbery. The trickiness of the animal named Satan is that he has people think they can be like God by disobeying God, when in truth you were all ready like God, it is written that "you are gods, sons of the Most High." It is notable to this lie of Satan, that you can become like God by disobeying God, is the same lie which the woman ultimately fell for.

Doing that which God says about women and men is not bad as the wicked world would have you imagine. Rather it is very good to do what God and his holy men said, for they did not say it in vain, nor for opinion, but they wrote it that you might know what is right and acceptable to God.

1 Peter 3:1-7

1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.

3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;

4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:

6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.

7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

Most of the virtues and duties listed in 1 Pet 3:1-6 apply to BOTH men
and women. They are part of the Christian lifestyle. Christian men are instructed to practice them too.

1 Peter 3:1 - they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives
Both men and women are instructed to win souls. Soul winning is part of the Great Commission.

He that wins souls is wise.
Proverbs 11:30

Paul himself (a man) won souls to Christ. 1 Corinthians 9:19

1 Peter 3:2 CHASTE CONVERSATION
BOTH men and women are
commanded to be chaste.
1 Thessalonians 4:1-8
1 Corinthians 7:1-5,
Colossians 3:5,
Ephesians 5:3,
Hebrews 13:4,
1 Corinthians 6:18,
Romans 13:13-14,
2 Timothy 2:22,
1 Peter 2:11
Chasity isn't just for women. Chasity is part of the Christian lifestyle.

In that same chapter of 1 Peter 3:4, after Peter instructs wives to have a quiet and GENTLE spirit, Paul instructs ALL Christians (men and women) to be gentle to others.
1 Peter 3:15.
Ephesians 4:2,
Philippians 4:5,
Titus 3:2,
Colossians 3:12,
Galatians 6:1.

Paul practiced gentleness.
2 Corinthians 10:1

Jesus IS gentle. Matthew 11:29

Gentleness is a fruit of the spirit. Galatians 5:22

1 Peter 3:4 MEEK
Jesus is meek. Matthew 11:29

Moses was meek. Num 12:3

Meekness is part of the Christian lifestyle. Men are not exempt.
Col 3:12

1 Peter 3:4 QUIET
BOTH men and women are instructed to be quiet.
Ecclesiastes 3:7
James 1:19
1 Timothy 2:2,
Proverbs 13:3
1 Thessalonians 4:11
Proverbs 11:12
Proverbs 10:19
Psalms 4:4

1 Peter 3:5 TRUST GOD
BOTH men and women are instructed to trust God.
Proverbs 3:5
Psalm 9:10
Psalm 84:12
Psalm 37:1-3
Psalm 115:11
Isaiah 26:4

1 Peter 3:6 SARAH OBEYED ABRAHAM
Genesis 21:12 describes a time when God told Abraham to listen to and obey
his wife, Sarah, as it related to a very important household decision. In that situation, God gave Sarah the decision making power.

1 Peter 3:6 DO NOT GIVE WAY TO FEAR
BOTH men and women are told “do not
fear.”
John 14:27,
Philippians 4:6
Matthew 10:31

Some men like to quote 1 Peter 3:1-6
as a way of putting and keeping women in their so-called place. However, you generally won't hear them going on and on about a man's duty to win souls (within a marriage) be chaste, gentle, meek, quiet, trust God, listen to wisdom from their wives and not give way to fear.