Are Women Not Allowed to Preach in Every Case?

[Diakonos]

Adam failed to lead Eve to not obey the leading of the serpent.

I wholeheartedly agree.
Satan’s main target was not Eve’s peculiar gullibility (if that was true of her) but rather Adam’s headship as the one ordained by God to be responsible for the life of the garden. Satan’s subtlety is that he knew the created order God had ordained for the good of the family,
and he deliberately defied it by ignoring the man and taking up his dealings with the woman. Satan put her in the position of spokesman, leader, and defender. At that moment, both the man and the woman slipped from their innocence and let themselves be drawn into a pattern of relating to each other that to this day has proved destructive. If this is the proper understanding, then what Paul meant in 1 Timothy 2:14 was this: “Adam was not deceived (that is, Adam was not approached by the deceiver and did not carry on direct dealings with the deceiver), but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor (that is, she was the one who took up dealings with the deceiver and was led through her direct interaction with him into deception and transgression).”

In this case, the main point is not that the man is undeceivable or that the woman is more deceivable but that when God’s order of leadership is repudiated, it brings damage and ruin. Men and women are both more vulnerable to error and sin when they forsake the order that God has intended.

 

[Diakonos]

Teach each other of his goodness, tell everyone how he has healed and saved people. NOT: Lets sit around and listen to a sermon...

Yes, the attitudes of people in services have (and are) wrong much of the time. But I hope you're not suggesting that we throw out the traditional Sunday church gathering. Its not just Sunday morning or home groups or personal evangelism, its all three.
The early church met weekly in the synagogues AND daily in each others homes. Teaching the Word was a prominent part of why they gathered.
"They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer."
-Acts 2:42
We continue that today. The compiled Bible today is the result of the Apostles's teaching (inspired by God, of course).
It is Biblical to be involved in each other's lives daily, do evangelism and also meet weekly in larger gatherings. In all things, we should respect our Elders and love one another and not grumble when our pastor goes long in his teaching.

 

[Heart_Melody]

Sermons are good but too often it feels as if the words fall on deaf ears. Go is an action word. We must be doing the will of God not just hearing it and only letting it benefit ourselves. It is almost like once saved people forget others are spiritually dying around them.

What the legalist, traditionalist, or the extremist forget is God's message is to all who will hear and believe. If it is a woman or a man who get them to that point and now a soul is saved, then forgive me for not getting bogged down on highly debated details. Because in my mind the Great Commission far outweighs many of the theological details that denominations fight over. Let the individual after redemption work out the details in their time and in God's will. The unbelievers are not ready for such whole food. And by fighting and dividing over whole food, the new believers are in the back choking.

In less something is extremely heretical as in a teaching completely or almost completely denies the core doctrines of the Bible. Then and only then we should be United in the division of such teaching.

Very good Points again ^~^
I agree - I think we have seen over and over how Jesus reacts to legalism. He looked at the heart of the matter.

I saw this incredible documentary of the growing church in Iran "Sheep Among Wolves" (if you want to watch something truly inspiring you should close the doors to your room and let your mind try and absorb these testimonies!) Sheep Among Wolves - the growing church in Iran

There many Pastors are women for the lack of Men - same in China actually. Many of their men could be imprisoned and women are "forced" to lead the church. In actual Pastor's positions. And they do just fine.
They are doing what they must to bring the sheep to the Shepherd.

If you watch the docu let me know!

 

[Heart_Melody]

Yes, the attitudes of people in services have (and are) wrong much of the time. But I hope you're not suggesting that we throw out the traditional Sunday church gathering. Its not just Sunday morning or home groups or personal evangelism, its all three.
The early church met weekly in the synagogues AND daily in each others homes. Teaching the Word was a prominent part of why they gathered.
"They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer."
-Acts 2:42
We continue that today. The compiled Bible today is the result of the Apostles's teaching (inspired by God, of course).
It is Biblical to be involved in each other's lives daily, do evangelism and also meet weekly in larger gatherings. In all things, we should respect our Elders and love one another and not grumble when our pastor goes long in his teaching.

I mean: I could care less about the "tradition" to be honest. It's nice to go to a church building. And meet Church friends. And sing a song to the Lord there. But that being said - the sunday morning church tradition isn't what worship is all about. Our lives should be a continual sacrifice of worship and praise. In all we do we should be doing it unto the Lord. Sunday should be the Cherry on top. Not the bread of life. Jesus already fills those shoes.

But that being said, I don't see much fruit in the way the "tradition" has progressed. If we want to obey then why are the people of the faith described as "stuck up", "preachy", "Ungenerous", "hypocrites", "Uncaring", "ignorant' and "unloving"? Why in trying to be "biblical" are we dis-unified, conflicty and in constant disagreement? We should just do what it says. Instead of being known for our hate speech and all the things we disagree with - why not let people know Whom we do believe on? What we stand for. Which should be the weak, the fatherless, the widows, the foreigners, the sick and wounded and imprisoned. Yet I have rarely seen a Christian pass over the wrong side of the tracks to make friends with "those people". Yet that is our Samaria. And we were told to go to it.

But no - I wouldn't want to miss my Church on Sunday. I just don't feel that these "discussions" are fruitful in the long run.

Do you enjoy your church?

Also about Adam and Eve one thing I heard which made sense was this:

Eve was Deceived by the Serpent.
Adam deliberately sinned and chose to eat the fruit without a deceiver. Which was in God's eyes worse.

Which is why it was Adams sin - not Eve's deception, which caused mankind to fall into sin. Which is why the Second Adam came to save us all.

I wish I could remember where I heard this - I hear too much and read too much stuff and don't write down enough Oops. What do you think?

 

[Heart_Melody]

Sermons are good but too often it feels as if the words fall on deaf ears. Go is an action word. We must be doing the will of God not just hearing it and only letting it benefit ourselves. It is almost like once saved people forget others are spiritually dying around them.

What the legalist, traditionalist, or the extremist forget is God's message is to all who will hear and believe. If it is a woman or a man who get them to that point and now a soul is saved, then forgive me for not getting bogged down on highly debated details. Because in my mind the Great Commission far outweighs many of the theological details that denominations fight over. Let the individual after redemption work out the details in their time and in God's will. The unbelievers are not ready for such whole food. And by fighting and dividing over whole food, the new believers are in the back choking.

In less something is extremely heretical as in a teaching completely or almost completely denies the core doctrines of the Bible. Then and only then we should be United in the division of such teaching.

Oh also : The link I shared was the first part of the documentary - which does not deal with the female pastor issue at all. I hadn't actually seen the first part. I am not watching it... Here is the second part- it's 2 hours long... But it is Heart wrenhing!
Sheep among wolves second part - WATCH IT

 

[Heart_Melody]

ALSO!I remember where I learned about Adam and Eve.
It was in a scriptural study in my ESV - Studybible. It's in the footnotes there. When Paul teaches about the Garden of Eden and the deception and fall of man.

SO IT WASN"T A PREACHER. Well I guess sorta was a preacher - Paul preached it. Which is pretty darn good I would say

 

[Brandnewday]

Everyone in this thread has been taught by a woman and yes, even on Sunday. You listened to her too. Go ahead and argue all you want with me.

Women are not stupid, door mats for men to walk on or rule over. If that had been the case then God would have taken a toe bone to make one. He did not... He took a rib from Adams side as the woman was suppose to be his mate and helper to walk by his side and the two were to become one.

Yes, Eve was deceived by satan and she sinned, but Adam knew full well what he was doing so which is the greater sin? The sin is both equal as they both sinned and they were then doomed to death as God had said....

But let's get back to everyone being taught by a woman on Sunday and every other day of the week shall we... This woman also taught most of you about God.... the horrors......don't pass out on me now... she even taught some of you about salvation..... don't get weak in the knees.... and to top it all off you all listened to her as she taught you.... Well maybe except some hard heads out there in CC land.....

The one thing that we all have in common and none of us can deny is MOTHERS.... Yes, we all have them Dad is usually off to work and MOM does most of the child raising and teaches you how to do things like brush your teeth, comb your hair and reads stories to you oh yes, and maybe even some of that teaching was Bible stories and she taught and told you what to do even on SUNDAYS...

So all you folks need to remember that God gave authority to women to teach boys and girls who would grow up to be men and women about Him and His good news even on Sundays and your Mom might even have schooled you on Sundays...

I realize we didn't all come from Christian homes and backgrounds but those that did know what I am talking about.... You're welcome.

Consider yourselves taught by a woman on this matter.... The end.....

YES! Very well done!
Wives should submit to their husbands. I knew a woman when I use to go to church regularly that was a victim of spousal rape. Meaning she wasn't attracted to her man anymore but he used that part of the bible to make her submit to him in bed.
The part about the two become one flesh clearly escaped him.

Men that are intimidated by powerful women will always justify their insistence that God is on their side when they claim women are to be subjects of their men.

 

[Dan_473]

@Diakonos
(Or anyone)

Did you want to talk about things like the specific age that a male becomes a man?

The reason I'm asking for specifics is that I haven't yet seen the church teaches some manner of female subordination, and at the same time fully incorporates, without fudging, what they say they believe the Bible teaches.


Women, preaching, silence, authority…

it looks to me like these fall into the same class as telling slaves to obey their masters.

It made sense at the time, and I understand why Paul said it, but I don't think it should be applied today.

 

[Dino246]

I wholeheartedly agree.
Satan’s main target was not Eve’s peculiar gullibility (if that was true of her) but rather Adam’s headship as the one ordained by God to be responsible for the life of the garden. Satan’s subtlety is that he knew the created order God had ordained for the good of the family,
and he deliberately defied it by ignoring the man and taking up his dealings with the woman. Satan put her in the position of spokesman, leader, and defender. At that moment, both the man and the woman slipped from their innocence and let themselves be drawn into a pattern of relating to each other that to this day has proved destructive. If this is the proper understanding, then what Paul meant in 1 Timothy 2:14 was this: “Adam was not deceived (that is, Adam was not approached by the deceiver and did not carry on direct dealings with the deceiver), but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor (that is, she was the one who took up dealings with the deceiver and was led through her direct interaction with him into deception and transgression).”

In this case, the main point is not that the man is undeceivable or that the woman is more deceivable but that when God’s order of leadership is repudiated, it brings damage and ruin. Men and women are both more vulnerable to error and sin when they forsake the order that God has intended.

Your view takes the simple fact that God created Adam first as the most important fact of all creation, and ignored the truth of Genesis 1:27: "male and female He created them." It ignores the rest of the redemption story and makes Christ's sacrifice on the cross irrelevant, because it has changed nothing.

If you're drawing your view from Genesis 1, with corollary evidence from 1 Corinthians 11, you must limit your application to the marital relationship, for Paul wrote, "the man is the head of a woman" (singular in both cases). Only within marriage does that limitation make sense. A man is not the head of all women in any context.

 

[Diakonos]

I mean: I could care less about the "tradition" to be honest. It's nice to go to a church building. And meet Church friends. And sing a song to the Lord there. But that being said - the sunday morning church tradition isn't what worship is all about. Our lives should be a continual sacrifice of worship and praise. In all we do we should be doing it unto the Lord. Sunday should be the Cherry on top. Not the bread of life. Jesus already fills those shoes.

But that being said, I don't see much fruit in the way the "tradition" has progressed. If we want to obey then why are the people of the faith described as "stuck up", "preachy", "Ungenerous", "hypocrites", "Uncaring", "ignorant' and "unloving"? Why in trying to be "biblical" are we dis-unified, conflicty and in constant disagreement? We should just do what it says. Instead of being known for our hate speech and all the things we disagree with - why not let people know Whom we do believe on? What we stand for. Which should be the weak, the fatherless, the widows, the foreigners, the sick and wounded and imprisoned. Yet I have rarely seen a Christian pass over the wrong side of the tracks to make friends with "those people". Yet that is our Samaria. And we were told to go to it.

But no - I wouldn't want to miss my Church on Sunday. I just don't feel that these "discussions" are fruitful in the long run.

Do you enjoy your church?

Also about Adam and Eve one thing I heard which made sense was this:

Eve was Deceived by the Serpent.
Adam deliberately sinned and chose to eat the fruit without a deceiver. Which was in God's eyes worse.

Which is why it was Adams sin - not Eve's deception, which caused mankind to fall into sin. Which is why the Second Adam came to save us all.

I wish I could remember where I heard this - I hear too much and read too much stuff and don't write down enough Oops. What do you think?

Like I said, the Biblical model is meeting weekly AND continuing worship and praise and fellowship throughout the week. Its both.
To answer your questions:
1. Because they are living/speaking unbiblically OR because their accusers them are living/speaking unbiblically.
2. When a person (believer or not) refuses to read or heed God's Word, they are refusing to be in unity with Him, therefore refusing the opportunity to be in unity with His people. We will not be on the same page until we are on the same pages (the Word).
3. We do, At least in my experience. There is a time for everything: "A time to tear down and a time to build up" and "A time to love and a time to hate" -Ecclesiastes 3:3, 8. That's why Paul commanded Titus to appoint Elders in every church who are "able to exhort in sound doctrine and refute those who contradict." -Titus 2:9. When disputes arise, we are supposed to defend the Truth, not let it become perverted by the untaught and unstable.
4. Yes, I absolutely love it! Not just the fellowship I attend, but the whole Church. God's manifold wisdom is so enlightening to see working in the body of Christ. What a blessing it is to live in this age

 

[Diakonos]

@Diakonos
(Or anyone)

Did you want to talk about things like the specific age that a male becomes a man?

The reason I'm asking for specifics is that I haven't yet seen the church teaches some manner of female subordination, and at the same time fully incorporates, without fudging, what they say they believe the Bible teaches.


Women, preaching, silence, authority…

it looks to me like these fall into the same class as telling slaves to obey their masters.

It made sense at the time, and I understand why Paul said it, but I don't think it should be applied today.

I addressed these things in post #13 and #304 briefly. In other posts, they have been dealt with in length. Whether there you want to read them all and the documents I posted is up to you.

 

[Heart_Melody]

Like I said, the Biblical model is meeting weekly AND continuing worship and praise and fellowship throughout the week. Its both.
To answer your questions:
1. Because they are living/speaking unbiblically OR because their accusers them are living/speaking unbiblically.
2. When a person (believer or not) refuses to read or heed God's Word, they are refusing to be in unity with Him, therefore refusing the opportunity to be in unity with His people. We will not be on the same page until we are on the same pages (the Word).
3. We do, At least in my experience. There is a time for everything: "A time to tear down and a time to build up" and "A time to love and a time to hate" -Ecclesiastes 3:3, 8. That's why Paul commanded Titus to appoint Elders in every church who are "able to exhort in sound doctrine and refute those who contradict." -Titus 2:9. When disputes arise, we are supposed to defend the Truth, not let it become perverted by the untaught and unstable.
4. Yes, I absolutely love it! Not just the fellowship I attend, but the whole Church. God's manifold wisdom is so enlightening to see working in the body of Christ. What a blessing it is to live in this age

I am pretty sure the disciples met as a congregation on a daily basis... Not just once a week

 

[Diakonos]

Your view takes the simple fact that God created Adam first as the most important fact of all creation, and ignored the truth of Genesis 1:27: "male and female He created them." It ignores the rest of the redemption story and makes Christ's sacrifice on the cross irrelevant, because it has changed nothing.

If you're drawing your view from Genesis 1, with corollary evidence from 1 Corinthians 11, you must limit your application to the marital relationship, for Paul wrote, "the man is the head of a woman" (singular in both cases). Only within marriage does that limitation make sense. A man is not the head of all women in any context.

I'm still waiting for you to answer post #309, 313 and 315.

We can move on to to other things when you stop avoiding the question:

"Why did Paul give this (1Tim2:13-14) as the reason he doesn't allow women to teach/exercise authority?"

In post #313, I've already debunked your belief that it wasn't the reason.
You don't get to wiggle your way out of this. If you don't know the answer, just say so

 

[Diakonos]

I am pretty sure the disciples met as a congregation on a daily basis... Not just once a week

They met in the synagogue weekly. Whatever they did the rest of the week.....we have limited examples to point to. But it was probably in smaller groups.
I have a question for you: "Why did Luke, Paul, Peter and James write about the importance and of Elders in a church fellowships?

 

[JeremiahsCup]

I didn't say they were his opinions or lies, but that the context of the section and what follows bears hallmarks of when Paul quotes people in order to reprove them. Why would Paul, who's written so heavily about how we are not under law, suddenly revert and appeal to the law in his instructions? Unfortunately Greek lacks quotation marks so a lot of the time we have to figure out from context clues when Paul is quoting something or we have to infer because it is out of character. The case with 1 Cor 14, it appears to me, fits with a quote for both reasons and that an apparent reproval of the position follows. Paul has a peculiar writing style that is heavily dependent on the use of rhetoric and rhetorical devices and ignoring those one is bound to misinterpret him.

Paul's writing isn't really hard to understand if you have read the rest of the Bible as Paul frequently alludes to the rest of the Bible to clearly display the continuity of the faith of God. Paul's writing is very clear on this matter, that women are not to speak in the churches as this chapter outlays the proper way to use the gifts of the spirit and the proper way the churches should be organized and administrated.

Yet you show no proof of your claim. No presentment of scripture in context.

To do so you would have to consolidate how it came to be that Paul had women pastors in his churches and even praised them for their service along side him in spreading the Gospel.
You'd also have to speculate how Paul would contradict unity in Christ, all one, no male, female, Greek, Jew, Gentile, because we are all one in Christ. If we're all one in Christ then there can be no divisiveness, or division pertaining to sex, when delivering the Good News.
And one last thing. God anoints His ministers and calls them to service. God calls women to serve. Men don't like that and there is no rule that says they have to. However, when God calls a woman to serve woe to the man who dares imply, infer, or state outright, that was a mistake due simply to her sex.

The proof is what is written in the Bible which I have showed for you, and others have posted the verses as well. Even without the Bible though one only has to look at the ways of the wicked and the ways of the righteous to see the correct order women ought to be in and how it is good and honorable when they obey their husbands and themselves act like women, and also to see the disorder and high evil when they act contrary to the will of God as is common today in this ruined generation. Paul does not contradict the scriptures, but it is even in the good order of God for women to be in their correct place, everything working together as it should when everything is aligned with the order of God.

When men and women are not in their correct roles then there is disorder and extreme wickedness as we see evident today. Women are not called to be preachers, and that's just not going to change, woe to the followers of confusion that try to turn the simplicity of God on its head to their own detriment. What few godly women there are have been called to be good wives and mothers, obedient to their husbands, not loud and obnoxious fornicators and divorcees. If they do as God instructed then there will be good order and honor for them under God. To the contrary if they will not act like women and if they will continue in the current rebelliousness, then behold all the disorder, misery, and evil they have caused will not go unpunished by the Lord God, for God cannot be charmed or tricked.

That's right. God made man and woman in his image and likeness. He created them both from himself.

God made him in his image. Male and female created he them. As it is explained elsewhere, it is the man that is made in the glory of God, and the woman in the glory of man. It's important to understand this, because this is why God purposed the man to have authority over the woman. When this correct order of God-->Man-->Woman is obeyed there is life eternal, when this order is flipped around there is death and evil abounding.

 

[Bbrdrd]

Paul's writing isn't really hard to understand if you have read the rest of the Bible as Paul frequently alludes to the rest of the Bible to clearly display the continuity of the faith of God. Paul's writing is very clear on this matter, that women are not to speak in the churches as this chapter outlays the proper way to use the gifts of the spirit and the proper way the churches should be organized and administrated.



The proof is what is written in the Bible which I have showed for you, and others have posted the verses as well. Even without the Bible though one only has to look at the ways of the wicked and the ways of the righteous to see the correct order women ought to be in and how it is good and honorable when they obey their husbands and themselves act like women, and also to see the disorder and high evil when they act contrary to the will of God as is common today in this ruined generation. Paul does not contradict the scriptures, but it is even in the good order of God for women to be in their correct place, everything working together as it should when everything is aligned with the order of God.

When men and women are not in their correct roles then there is disorder and extreme wickedness as we see evident today. Women are not called to be preachers, and that's just not going to change, woe to the followers of confusion that try to turn the simplicity of God on its head to their own detriment. What few godly women there are have been called to be good wives and mothers, obedient to their husbands, not loud and obnoxious fornicators and divorcees. If they do as God instructed then there will be good order and honor for them under God. To the contrary if they will not act like women and if they will continue in the current rebelliousness, then behold all the disorder, misery, and evil they have caused will not go unpunished by the Lord God, for God cannot be charmed or tricked.



God made him in his image. Male and female created he them. As it is explained elsewhere, it is the man that is made in the glory of God, and the woman in the glory of man. It's important to understand this, because this is why God purposed the man to have authority over the woman. When this correct order of God-->Man-->Woman is obeyed there is life eternal, when this order is flipped around there is death and evil abounding.

Paul's writings not difficult to understand, but there are difficulties to it because he frequently quotes and uses those quotes to prove a point in sometimes surprising ways. Going too whats said here, it can't be "within churches" because there was no church building, so unless you're saying women are to remain silent any time more than 2 believers gather together(as that is often the usage of ekklisias, here translated church) you deny the principle you seek to affirm. Reading it as church in the modern sense is nothing more than an anachronistic imposition on the text, and given the rest of Paul's writings and his displayed attitude towards women it seems far more likely that he was quoting a member of the church rather than putting forth his own display for order.

 

[JeremiahsCup]

Paul's writings not difficult to understand, but there are difficulties to it because he frequently quotes and uses those quotes to prove a point in sometimes surprising ways. Going too whats said here, it can't be "within churches" because there was no church building, so unless you're saying women are to remain silent any time more than 2 believers gather together(as that is often the usage of ekklisias, here translated church) you deny the principle you seek to affirm. Reading it as church in the modern sense is nothing more than an anachronistic imposition on the text, and given the rest of Paul's writings and his displayed attitude towards women it seems far more likely that he was quoting a member of the church rather than putting forth his own display for order.

Well again, if you have read the whole Bible, Paul's writings aren't really too hard to understand, since that is after all what he references. I would say when I first read the Bible and got to Paul's writings it was very easy to understand because he's basically recapping what you just read.

No, Paul is quoting and expounding on the rest of the Bible when he says women are to be silent and to ask their husbands if they have any questions. Throughout the Bible we are given both straight commands for the ordering of men and women, we're given supporting anecdotes, living examples of both the good and the wicked people, and reconfirming messages.

Straight commands are like in the Torah that diligently order out what women are to do and not to do, for example being set apart in the time of their impurity.

An example of supporting anecdotes comes from the Proverbs where we're told about the woman that serves her husband and is diligent and is worth far above rubies, to the contrary we're also given in Proverbs about the wicked woman that seduces the stupid young man into committing fornication and adultery with her, how her mouth is the open pit to hell.

We're given living examples through stories of both the good and bad women; compare for say Sarah whom diligently obeyed her husband and called him "lord" to say the wicked woman Herodias whom had John the Baptist's virgin head sawed off for pointing out that her and Herod's relationship was wickedness.

Finally you have the reconfirming messages, mostly written by Paul, though there are also some others, the basic messages written of in the New Testament that reconfirm what is all ready shown in the rest of the scriptures so that there is no confusion.

 

[Bbrdrd]

Well again, if you have read the whole Bible, Paul's writings aren't really too hard to understand, since that is after all what he references. I would say when I first read the Bible and got to Paul's writings it was very easy to understand because he's basically recapping what you just read.

No, Paul is quoting and expounding on the rest of the Bible when he says women are to be silent and to ask their husbands if they have any questions. Throughout the Bible we are given both straight commands for the ordering of men and women, we're given supporting anecdotes, living examples of both the good and the wicked people, and reconfirming messages.

Straight commands are like in the Torah that diligently order out what women are to do and not to do, for example being set apart in the time of their impurity.

An example of supporting anecdotes comes from the Proverbs where we're told about the woman that serves her husband and is diligent and is worth far above rubies, to the contrary we're also given in Proverbs about the wicked woman that seduces the stupid young man into committing fornication and adultery with her, how her mouth is the open pit to hell.

We're given living examples through stories of both the good and bad women; compare for say Sarah whom diligently obeyed her husband and called him "lord" to say the wicked woman Herodias whom had John the Baptist's virgin head sawed off for pointing out that her and Herod's relationship was wickedness.

Finally you have the reconfirming messages, mostly written by Paul, though there are also some others, the basic messages written of in the New Testament that reconfirm what is all ready shown in the rest of the scriptures so that there is no confusion.

Paul does a lot more than just recapping. He casts new light on things and puts pieces together that seem to not fit. It certainly takes knowledge of the Bible to see it all, but something like 60% of his material is quotes and not just from Scripture but also quotes of critics and confused individuals. The issues with women being set apart during their menses had nothing to do with their position and everything to do with sin and its stain, which Jesus took care of. The revelation of Christ turns the supposed order of things on its head, with God coming to serve man. That's the example we're supposed to be following, not insisting on taking a superior position to someone because of immutable characteristics. That's the heart of the question, yet many demand their rights and that women submit to them because of "order." Where's the love in such demands?

 

[JeremiahsCup]

Paul does a lot more than just recapping. He casts new light on things and puts pieces together that seem to not fit. It certainly takes knowledge of the Bible to see it all, but something like 60% of his material is quotes and not just from Scripture but also quotes of critics and confused individuals. The issues with women being set apart during their menses had nothing to do with their position and everything to do with sin and its stain, which Jesus took care of. The revelation of Christ turns the supposed order of things on its head, with God coming to serve man. That's the example we're supposed to be following, not insisting on taking a superior position to someone because of immutable characteristics. That's the heart of the question, yet many demand their rights and that women submit to them because of "order." Where's the love in such demands?

No, Jesus does not turn the order of God on its head, but rather Jesus re-establishes the correct order of God so that there might be the chance of salvation. We must remember eternal life is in the correct order of God, but death and evil emerged when the order was thrown out of whack in the Garden of Eden.

If you follow the correct order of God you display that you love both God and mankind. This disorder of women grabbing up authority, being allowed to teach the lies, being allowed to act as whores and adulteresses, and so forth is no act of love, but is rather rebellion against both God himself, for they are rebelling against his good commands, and also rebellion and hatred obviously of men.

 

[Bbrdrd]

No, Jesus does not turn the order of God on its head, but rather Jesus re-establishes the correct order of God so that there might be the chance of salvation. We must remember eternal life is in the correct order of God, but death and evil emerged when the order was thrown out of whack in the Garden of Eden.

If you follow the correct order of God you display that you love both God and mankind. This disorder of women grabbing up authority, being allowed to teach the lies, being allowed to act as whores and adulteresses, and so forth is no act of love, but is rather rebellion against both God himself, for they are rebelling against his good commands, and also rebellion and hatred obviously of men.

Women being placed in positions of authority is not "grabbing up authority". Something that a lot of people miss is that not everything that was written in the law was because God approved of it but because God lets us come to truth on our own. You seem to be forgetting Jesus' words on exercising authority and desiring positions of power from Matthew 20:25-27. Disciples of Christ don't seek to have power over anyone, they leave that to God. So its not meet for men or women to seek dominion over one another, but to lead each other and exhort each other to submit to the Lord.