Are we in the end times ?

[TheDivineWatermark]

[continued from previous post]


[note Wm Kelly's Commentary per BibleHub... quoting below]

"But, this is not the only point of interest in this appendix to the prophecy. For the Lord has given us the positive proof. by the way in which verse 32 stands here, that "this generation" cannot mean a mere chronological space of thirty or even one hundred years, for it is brought in after the running out of Gentile times and the coming of the Son of man with power and glory, events still unfulfilled. Its force is moral; not exactly the nation of Israel but that Christ-rejecting race which then refused their Messiah as they do still. This will go on till all these solemn threats of judgment are accomplished. It is profitable to remark that here, not in doctrine or in practice only, but in these unfoldings of the future, the Lord pledges the impossibility of failing in His words. The Lord does not say that this generation "shall not pass away till the temple is destroyed or the city taken, but till all be fulfilled. Now, He had introduced the subsequent treading down of Jerusalem to the end of Israel's trials at His appearing, and He declares that this generation shall not pass away till then; as indeed it is only then grace will form a new generation, the generation to come. The more we hold fast the continuity of the stream of the prophecy, as distinguished from the crisis in Matthew and Mark, the greater will be seen to be the importance of this remark."



[and]

[quoting Wm Kelly on your Matt24:34, taken from BibleHub]

""When its branch has now become tender and the leaves are shooting, ye know that summer is nigh; so likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is nigh by the doors" (i.e., the end of this [/the] age, and the beginning of the next under Messiah and the new covenant). But solemnly the Saviour warns that "this generation," this Christ-rejecting race in Israel, shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled!

"The notion that all was fulfilled in the past siege of Jerusalem, founded on a narrow and unscriptural sense of this passage, is from not hearing what the Lord says to the disciples. By the term "generation" in a genealogy (as Matt. 1), or where the context requires it (as Luke 1:50), a life-time no doubt is meant: but where is it so used in the prophetic Scriptures - the Psalms, etc.? The meaning herein is moral rather than chronological; as, for instance, in Psalm 12:7, "Thou shalt keep them, O Lord; Thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." The words "for ever" prove a prolonged force; and accordingly the passage intimates that Jehovah shall preserve the godly from their lawless oppressors, "from this generation for ever." It is a distinct and conclusive refutation of those who would limit the phrase to the short epoch of a man's lifetime. So, in Deuteronomy 32:5; Deu 32:20, we find generation similarly used, not to convey a period, but to express the moral characteristics of Israel. Again, in the Psalms we have "the generation to come," which is not confined to a mere term of thirty or a hundred years. So also in Proverbs 30:11-14: "There is a generation that curseth their father. . . There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes," etc., where the character of certain classes is considered; even plainer, if possible, is the usage in the synoptic Gospels. Thus, in Matthew 11:16, "Whereunto shall I liken this generation?" means such as then lived, characterized by the moral capriciousness which set them in opposition to God's testimony, whatever it might be, in righteousness or in grace. But evidently, though people then alive are primarily in view, the moral identity of the same features might extend indefinitely, and so from age to age it would still be "this generation." Compare Matthew 12:39; Mat 12:41-42; Mat 12:45, which last verse shows the unity of the "generation" in its final judgment (not yet exhausted) with that which emerged from the Babylonish captivity. Again, note chapter 23: 36, "Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation" - a generation which would continue till all the predictions of judgment that Christ uttered shall be fulfilled (chap. 24: 34). As it is plain from what has been already shown, that much remains to be accomplished, "this generation" still subsists, and will, till all is over. And how true it is! Here are the Jews - the wonder of every thoughtful mind - not merely a broken, scattered, and withal perpetuated race; not only distinct, spite of mighty effort from without to blot them out, and from within to amalgamate with others, but with the same unbelief, rejection and scorn of Jesus their Messiah as on the day He pronounced their sentence. All these things - speaking of their earlier and their latest sorrows - should come to pass before that wicked generation shall disappear. "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." That which incredulity counts most stable, the scene of its idolatry or )f its self-exaltation, shall vanish; but the words of Christ, let them be about Israel or others, shall abide for ever."

[end quoting Wm Kelly; bold, underline and bracketed inserts mine; parentheses original]

 

[Beckie]

@Beckie,

As to the "this generation" statements by Jesus:

--in Luke 21:32, "This generation shall not pass away till all shall have taken place" must necessarily include the two very lengthy items already spoken of in verse 24:
1) "and they shall be led away into all the nations";
2) "and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles until the TIMES of [not FULNESS of] the Gentiles be fulfilled";

[these ^ are items that are initiated at the "70ad events"--Luke 21:12-24a/b--the "70ad events" that take place BEFORE "the beginning of birth pangs"]


--in Matthew 24, that passage STARTS OUT speaking of:
1) "the beginning of birth pangs" (vv.4-8) which take place sequentially AFTER the 70ad events; and after telling of THOSE ('beginning of birth pangs'), goes on to speak of what takes place AFTER THOSE:
2) "the AOD spoken of by Daniel the prophet," which is followed by
3) "then shall be GREAT tribulation" (describing THAT period), which is what will be
4) leading up to the END-point which is His Second Coming to the earth in Matthew 24:29-31 (parallel Isaiah 27:9,12-13)...

...and then states in verse 34, "[likewise...] when you see ALL THESE THINGS [distinct and LATER things from what was told about regarding the "70ad events" in Lk21:12-24, recall] know that IT is near even at the doors. [...]"

[and saying next], v.35:
"... This generation shall not pass, till ALL THESE THINGS shall have taken place"

[note again: "ALL THESE things" starting in Matthew 24:4-8 are details commencing with "the beginning of birth pangs," which take place sequentially after the events of 70ad... so are an entirely distinct set of things the "proleptic 'you'" shall "SEE" in order to "know it is near, even at the doors" (speaking of His Second Coming to the earth FOR the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom)
[that is, "know"] as a result of seeing "all these things"... So again, in BOTH passages, "This generation shall not pass / pass away" UNTIL the far-future Second Coming of Jesus Christ to the earth Rev19]






[see again Wm Kelly's commentaries on these phrases... in the next post]

Now i get it Wm Kelly is above Christ in your thinking ...

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ @Beckie ,

No.

It's that William Kelly grasps the SEQUENCE / CHRONOLOGY issues that our Lord HAS SPELLED OUT in His Olivet Discourse... which many people fail to grasp

(same for the matters in Daniel 12:1,6-7... and all related passages which also touch on these sequence and timing issues relating to all things eschatological )

 

[Goliath]

"All who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved"
What does this actually mean?
Many people believe this is all they need to do to be saved, not understanding its meaning.
Every generation, since the Lord ascended into heaven, has believed they were in the last days. When Paul taught this, the foundation of this teaching was with this in mind.
It simply means..... Those who are alive in the last days, will be forced to choose between Jesus and the Beast. Those, who choose Jesus,.... during these last days...will be saved!!
Sounds easy enough...but what are the Cons of that public decision?
You will be...killed..beheaded even!!
(Revelation 20:4) And I saw thrones and they that sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them. And I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast, nor his image, nor had received his mark upon their foreheads or on their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
What are the Pros?
After you are beheaded, you will be resurrected and will reign with Christ for a Thousand years..This is the first resurrection.
(Revelation 20:4) And I saw thrones and they that sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them. And I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast, nor his image, nor had received his mark upon their foreheads or on their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Many people know of the second resurrection...but not of the first. This resurrection will be for those who are killed during the Tribulation..only!!
(Revelation 20:4) is the first resurrection..(1 Thessalonians 4:14-17) is the second resurrection.

What are the Pros of getting the Mark of the Beast?
You can buy food and everything you need to survive the Great Tribulation...and you will not be killed.
(Revelation 13:16-17) And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand or in their foreheads, that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark or the name of the beast or the number of his name.
What are the Cons?
You will live, but it will be a life of suffering, for you will experience, the full on, .....wrath of God.
(Revelation 6:11-17) And white robes were given unto every one of them, and it was said unto them that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants and also their brethren, who were to be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. And I beheld when He had opened the sixth seal, and lo, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs when she is shaken by a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; and they said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great Day of His wrath is come, and who shall be able to stand?”

Hmmm...not much of a decision, but for those cling to life...it could be a very difficult decision indeed.

 

[LetGodBeTrue]

Those ARE my own words.

And it took me a very long time to type that all out (extremely slow typist that I am). = )

In no way was it a C&P. EVERY thought expressed in that post was typed out, one at a time, by me (to the topic under present discussion).

I'll take your word for it, but it is still without proper explanation. Still, you can do more commentary apart from all of the caps and boldness. It's distracting.

It must be acknowledged that the verses we have been discussing are but a small portion of the MANY others that speak of His SOON return in that day. There are over 100. Consider these:

1. “The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.” (Matt. 3:2; 4:17; 10:7; Mark 1:15
2. “Who warned you to flee from the wrath ABOUT TO come?” (Matt. 3:7; Luke 3:7)
3. “The axe is already laid at the root of the trees.” (Matt. 3:10; Luke 3:9)
4. “His winnowing fork is in His hand.” (Matt. 3:12; Luke 3:17)
5. “YOU [my disciples standing right here with me] shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, until the Son of Man COMES.” (Matt. 10:23)
6 “…the age ABOUT TO come.” (Matt. 12:32)
7. “The Son of Man is ABOUT TO come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and will then recompense every man according to his deeds.” (Matt. 16:27)
8. “There are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until THEY SEE the Son of Man COMING in His kingdom.” (Matt. 16:28; cf. Mk. 9:1; Lk. 9:27)
9. “‘When the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vine-growers?’ ‘…He will bring those wretches to a wretched end, and will rent out the vineyard to other vine-growers, who will pay him the proceeds at the proper seasons.’ ‘…Therefore I say to YOU [the chief priests and Pharisees], the kingdom of God will be taken away from YOU, and be given to a nation producing the fruit of it.’ …When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, THEY understood that He was speaking about THEM.” (Matt. 21:40-41,43,45; Mark 12:9, 12; Lk. 20:15-16,19)
10. “THIS generation will not pass away until ALL THESE THINGS take place.” (Matt. 24:34; Mark 13:30; Luke 21:32)
11. “From now on, YOU [Caiaphas, the chief priests, the scribes, the elders, the whole Sanhedrin] shall be seeing the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and COMING on the clouds of heaven.” (Matt. 26:64; Mk. 14:62; Lk. 22:69)
12. “The kingdom of God HAS COME NEAR to you.” (Lk. 10:9, 11)
13. “THESE are days of vengeance, in order that ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN MAY BE FULFILLED.” (Lk. 21:22)
14. “DAUGHTERS OF JERUSALEM, stop weeping for Me, but weep for YOURSELVES and for YOUR CHIILDREN. For behold, the days are coming when they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never nursed.’ Then they will begin to say to the mountains, ‘Fall on us,’ and to the hills, ‘Cover us.'” (Lk. 23:28-30; Compare Rev. 6:14-17--the things which were then NEAR)
15. “WE were hoping that He was the One who is ABOUT TO redeem Israel.” (Lk. 24:21)
16. “I will come to YOU. …In that Day YOU shall know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.’ …’Lord, what then has happened that You are ABOUT TO disclose Yourself to us, and not to the world?'” (Jn. 14:18,20,22)
17. “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you?” (Jn. 21:22)
18. “THIS is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel: ‘And it shall be in the last days…'” (Acts 2:16-17) Cp. w/Heb. 1 THESE LAST DAYS
19. “He has fixed a day in which He is ABOUT TO judge the world in righteousness…” (Acts 17:31)
20. “There is ABOUT TO be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.” (Acts 24:15)
21. “As he was discussing righteousness, self-control and the judgment ABOUT TO come…” (Acts 24:25)
22.. “Not for [Abraham’s] sake only was it written, that [faith] was reckoned to him [as righteousness], but for OUR sake also, to whom it is ABOUT TO be reckoned.” (Rom. 4:23-24)
23. “I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is ABOUT TO be revealed to US.” (Rom. 8:18)
24. “It is ALREADY the HOUR for YOU to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to US than when WE believed. The night is almost gone, and the day is AT HAND.” (Rom. 13:11-12)
25. “The God of peace will SOON crush Satan under YOUR feet.” (Rom. 16:20)
26. “Now these things …were written for OUR instruction, UPON WHOM the ends of the ages HAVE COME.” (I Cor. 10:11)
27. “WE shall not all fall sleep, but WE shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and WE shall be changed.” (I Cor. 15:51-52) The WE here includes Paul and those of HIS day!
28. “…not only in this age, but also in the one ABOUT TO come.” (Eph. 1:21)
29. “The Lord is NEAR.” (Phil. 4:5)
30. “The gospel …WAS PROCLAIMED in ALL creation under heaven.” (Col. 1:23; Compare Matt. 24:14; Rom. 10:18; 16:26; Col. 1:5-6; II Tim. 4:17; Rev. 14:6-7; cf. I Clement 5,7)
31. “…things which are a shadow of what is ABOUT TO come.” (Col. 2:16-17)
32. “…WE who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord… WE who are alive and REMAIN shall be caught up together with THEM [the dead in Christ] in the clouds… …YOU, brethren, are not in darkness, that the Day should overtake YOU like a thief.” (I Thess. 4:15,17; 5:4)
33. “May YOUR spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame AT THE COMING of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (I Thess. 5:23)
34. “It is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict :YOU, and to give relief to YOU who are afflicted and to US as well WHEN the Lord Jesus SHALL BE REVEALED from heaven with His MIGHTY ANGELS in flaming fire.” (II Thess. 1:6-7)
35. “Godliness …holds promise for the present life and that which is ABOUT TO come.” (I Tim. 4:8)
36. “I charge YOU …that YOU keep the commandment without stain or reproach UNTIL THE APPEARING of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (I Tim. 6:14)
37. “…storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for that which is ABOUT TO come, so that they may take hold of that which is life indeed.” (I Tim. 6:19)
38. “In THE LAST DAYS difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self… …[YOU] Avoid these men. For of these are those who enter into

 

[Beckie]

^ @Beckie ,

No.

It's that William Kelly grasps the SEQUENCE / CHRONOLOGY issues that our Lord HAS SPELLED OUT in His Olivet Discourse... which many people fail to grasp

(same for the matters in Daniel 12:1,6-7... and all related passages which also touch on these sequence and timing issues relating to all things eschatological )

Guess God knew you would not be able to understand what He was saying... In reading the Word Jesus always spoke so over the head of the every day guy right?

Psa_19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

I have had enough of your yelling a me so have good learning at the feet of Kelly.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Guess God knew you would not be able to understand what He was saying... In reading the Word Jesus always spoke so over the head of the every day guy right?

[...] so have good learning at the feet of Kelly.

I never said "I learned this Subject from Wm Kelly"... coz I didn't.
I'm merely showing one of MANY scholars who also agree with and understand this SEQUENCE / CHRONOLOGY issue in Jesus' Olivet Discourse, that so many folks have trouble grasping the sequence / chronology of.
I myself have studied eschatology for something like 45 years... long before I'd ever even heard of William Kelly.
So your snide accusation is just silly, and an incorrect assumption about me.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

8. “There are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until THEY SEE the Son of Man COMING in His kingdom.” (Matt. 16:28; cf. Mk. 9:1; Lk. 9:27)

Consider

...one example from your list:

--they caught a glimpse [/snapshot] of His Second Coming glory when they were with Him on the Mount of Transfiguration (PRIOR TO His death on the Cross);


--2 Peter 1 says (of that event),
[Eyewitnesses of His Majesty
(Matthew 17:1–13; Mark 9:1–13; Luke 9:28–36)]
16For we did not follow cleverly-devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17For He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to Him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”c 18And we ourselves heard this voice from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.


--Matthew 17:9 says (of that occasion), "Tell no one the VISION until..."


--so just because they "SAW" this as EYEWITNESSES (on that occasion) does not mean that that occasion on the Mount of Transfiguration WAS the actual [as in, only-EVER] Second Coming (the power and coming) of Him; No... they were granted a glimpse [/snapshot] of it, for purposes of their being enabled to [their doing the] "MADE KNOWN UNTO YOU" of this, about Jesus.


--it was surely "SOME standing here" that were privileged to "SEE" this (on that occasion... on the Mount of Transfiguration)

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

25. “The God of peace will SOON crush Satan under YOUR feet.” (Rom. 16:20)

No, and I already mentioned this verse in one of my previous posts... that the word here is the SAME "NOUN" word that's found in Rev1:1 (not the ADVERB "SOON"):


--so the text states, instead, "...shall CRUSH Satan under YOUR feet IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (doesn't state when or how soon this will occur, in this passage--I do believe it is part of the Subject which is included in the words "know ye not that WE shall JUDGE ANGELS?" 1Cor6:3[,14]--none of which has YET taken place, but WILL)


--learn about the "proleptic 'you'" (which I've posted about in past posts); In view of that, I believe the "you/your" in THIS text speaks to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (per context) [Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)]






[I could go through your entire LIST pointing out problem after problem with the "Preterist-teachings" pertaining to these, which texts don't actually convey the "Preterist" viewpoint... but it would be a very time-consuming task... and then, per the sheer volume of it, who would even want to READ all that?! lol]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

26. “Now these things …were written for OUR instruction, UPON WHOM the ends of the ages HAVE COME.” (I Cor. 10:11)

Consider:

... what I'd put in an old post of mine:


[quoting old post]

I've pointed out the 1 Cor 10:11 verse before, and that it says,

"Now these things happened to them as types and were written for our admonition, to whom the ends [PLURAL] of the ages [PLURAL] are arrived." .... which I've pointed out the DISTINCTIONS amongst the following three phrases:


--"the END [SINGULAR] of the AGES [PLURAL]" - Hebrews 9:26


--"the END [SINGULAR] of the AGE [SINGULAR]" - Matthew 13:39,40,49-50; Matt24:3; etc


--"the ENDS [PLURAL] of the AGES [PLURAL]" (as here) - 1 Corinthians 10:11



...they are not referring to the same exact thing.


[end quoting old post]



____________

[note: there are more "age" phrases (such as "unto the AGES [PLURAL] of the AGES [PLURAL]" and more), which are also distinct... but these three listed above are the ones containing the word "end / ends" with that word, and which three are each speaking of distinct things, not identical things]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

29. “The Lord is NEAR.” (Phil. 4:5)

What's new?

Let the readers note that the epistle to the Philippians is not so much covering eschatological topics (other than VERY brief mentions where he merely touches on this, in 3:20b-21; 1:6c,10c,2:16b--that's it!), but rather its contents are focused in on that which concerns "in the here and now"

Notice that Philippians 4:5 (your verse) states, "THE LORD is near" (it does NOT state, "the Lord's COMING is near").
Of course HE HIMSELF is "near"... Scripture states such, elsewhere, even saying this is so WAY BACK WHEN (in long ago times, when the following were written):


"The LORD is near to all who call on Him, to all who call out to Him in truth. - Psalm 145:18

"The LORD is near to the brokenhearted; He saves the contrite in spirit." - Psalm 34:18



[and besides ^ those]

"God is our refuge and strength, an ever-present help in times of trouble." - Psalm 46:1 [2Ki18:13-30; 2Chron32:1-19,8]

"Seek the LORD while He may be found; call on Him while He is near." -Isaiah 55:6





[also note...]

"Salvation [yeshuah] is far from the wicked because they do not seek Your statutes." - Psalm 119:155

"The LORD is far from the wicked, but He hears the prayer of the righteous." - Proverbs 15:29






[and lest we forget this one... ]

"Draw near to God, and He will draw near to you" - James 4:8

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

13. “THESE are days of vengeance, in order that ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN MAY BE FULFILLED.” (Lk. 21:22)

Indeed a part of the Luke 21:12-24 section... which is where He covering the events regarding "70ad"...


...BUT NOTICE, it says,

--"these are the DAYS of vengeance..." [in the events of 70ad]... (not "DAY of vengeance");


--and that it does NOT say, "these are the total fulfillment OF ALL THINGS HAVING BEEN WRITTEN"... but instead says, as I endeavored to explain in a post I made back on March 12... https://christianchat.com/threads/jesus-said-understand-it-and-know-it-do-you.204543/post-4799179 :

[quoting from] Post #33 (different thread), quoted IN PART, here (to show briefly what I was / am pointing out):

"I do not deny that vv.12-24a,b is indeed describing the events of "70ad"... I disagree (for reasons stated above) that this setting (of events) is "the fulfillment [noun] of all that has been written"... rather, that these "70ad events" described in vv.12-24a,b must also take place "to fulfill [verb, infinitive]" (as one very important aspect of) "all things having been written" (that is, if THESE 70ad events do not take place also, then "all things having been written" will be incomplete... and thus, not real "prophecies" / i.e. be untrue... which of course they are NOT untrue, but true indeed! This, instead, [as actually written] does not require that the "70ad events" be the complete fulfillment "of all things having been written"... but that these items cannot be left out. This is the point being conveyed there.)"

-MORE AT LINK (post), above

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ EDIT to correct a scripture reference at that LINK (I had meant to point out, but forgot):

--at the Post at LINK, should read: "Dan7:25[,27]" ... not "Dan7:27" as I'd put.

 

[Goliath]

The Great Tribulation came upon them during the Jewish Wars with Rome (A.D. 66 - 70). John called himself a fellow partaker in the Tribulation (Rev. 1:9).[/QUOTE]

Something to consider....
If what you say is true..Why would (Revelation 7:13-15) say....?
And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, “Who are these that are arrayed in white robes, and from whence have they come?” And I said unto him, “Sir, thou knowest.” And he said to me, “These are they that came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Therefore, “they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple; and He that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Who are these folks in the white robes?
They are those we see in the first resurrection.
And I saw thrones and they that sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them. And I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast, nor his image, nor had received his mark upon their foreheads or on their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

It says, those folks in the White Robes came out of the Great Tribulation. And they are in the first resurrection....because they did not get the Mark of the Beast. Now since the Mark of the Beast has not been forced on the Unbeliever...yet, doesn't it stand to reason, the Great Tribulation is yet to come?

 

[Beckie]

The Great Tribulation came upon them during the Jewish Wars with Rome (A.D. 66 - 70). John called himself a fellow partaker in the Tribulation (Rev. 1:9).

Something to consider....
If what you say is true..Why would (Revelation 7:13-15) say....?
And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, “Who are these that are arrayed in white robes, and from whence have they come?” And I said unto him, “Sir, thou knowest.” And he said to me, “These are they that came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Therefore, “they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple; and He that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Who are these folks in the white robes?
They are those we see in the first resurrection.
And I saw thrones and they that sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them. And I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast, nor his image, nor had received his mark upon their foreheads or on their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

It says, those folks in the White Robes came out of the Great Tribulation. And they are in the first resurrection....because they did not get the Mark of the Beast. Now since the Mark of the Beast has not been forced on the Unbeliever...yet, doesn't it stand to reason, the Great Tribulation is yet to come?

It does not say "those folks in the White Robes came out of the Great Tribulation. " it says These are they that came out of great tribulation,..
Adding the word THE , in this case, to the Scriptures changes great tribulation to a singular event. Christians in different places over generations have gone through tribulation. Try claiming Christ today in a muslem country.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

It does not say "those folks in the White Robes came out of the Great Tribulation. " it says These are they that came out of great tribulation,..
Adding the word THE , in this case, to the Scriptures changes great tribulation to a singular event. Christians in different places over generations have gone through tribulation. Try claiming Christ today in a muslem country.

What version are you reading? In NKJV there is "the", they came out of THE great tribulation.

 

[Beckie]

What version are you reading? In NKJV there is "the", they came out of THE great tribulation.

Thanks good ol KJ ... I will look into who when what influenced the NKJ to use the word 'the'

 

[Beckie]

A real quick internet check came up with this
Arthur L Farstad
Arthur L Farstad is the author of books such as The New King James Version.

The New King James Version
In 1975 the Texas-based evangelical scholar Arthur L. Farstad assembled a group of 130 biblical scholars, theologians, and clergy for the task of producing a modern English version of the King James Version. The New Testament was published in 1979, the Psalms a year later, and the complete New King James Version (NKJV) in 1983. The NKJV featured modernized spellings and the replacement of some 17th-century terminology (e.g., “thou” and “thee”) with more-contemporary words and phrases. Yet, because the translators and editors strove to preserve the literary style of the original King James Version, which had been widely regarded as one of the high-water marks of English literature, traditional sentence structure was preserved. The NKJV gained popularity among Bible societies such as Gideons International.


https://voice.dts.edu/contributor/arthur-l-farstad/

Reading of Arthur Farstad connection to DTS there is zero surprise the word " the" is used. It supports DTS view of dispensationalism.

For the record i am NOT a KJO person

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The definite article ('the') is present in the Greek text:

-- https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/7-14.htm

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

A real quick internet check came up with this
Arthur L Farstad
Arthur L Farstad is the author of books such as The New King James Version.

The New King James Version
In 1975 the Texas-based evangelical scholar Arthur L. Farstad assembled a group of 130 biblical scholars, theologians, and clergy for the task of producing a modern English version of the King James Version. The New Testament was published in 1979, the Psalms a year later, and the complete New King James Version (NKJV) in 1983. The NKJV featured modernized spellings and the replacement of some 17th-century terminology (e.g., “thou” and “thee”) with more-contemporary words and phrases. Yet, because the translators and editors strove to preserve the literary style of the original King James Version, which had been widely regarded as one of the high-water marks of English literature, traditional sentence structure was preserved. The NKJV gained popularity among Bible societies such as Gideons International.


https://voice.dts.edu/contributor/arthur-l-farstad/

Reading of Arthur Farstad connection to DTS there is zero surprise the word " the" is used. It supports DTS view of dispensationalism.

For the record i am NOT a KJO person

I noticed the inclination toward dispensationalism. Daniel 9:24-27 is a litmus test, the choice of words captures and reflects the translator's view. In NKJ, wherever Jesus is mentioned, even potential appearances in the form of an angel in the OT (such as the angel wrestling with Jacob), the first letter of his name is always capitalized, but in Daniel 9:27 it was in lower case, which implies that it's not Christ, but the Antichrist.