Any Post or Non-Tribbers in Here?

[TheDivineWatermark]

Since you have studied the scriptures and can clearly see "pre-tribulation rapture", i need your assistance.

Here is my question(s) :
Can you please post the scriptures where the LORD and/or His Apostles declare and instruct us of:
Christ descending to rapture a select group of (any of the following) His Sons/Saints/Bride/Church/Elect BEFORE His Second Coming thereby leaving behind Saints that must go thru great tribulation AND then His Second Coming for the Resurrection and rapture for another group of Saints.

Thank You

Can you explain what the verse means which says:

"[re: resurrection] but EACH [a word meaning 'of more than two'] in his own ORDER / RANK" (if there remains ONLY ONE at one point in time, as you and others suggest) ?



...and why that verse goes on to further state:

"Christ firstfruit [or, firstfruit Christ--no definite article], and then [i.e. ONLY THEN] they that ARE Christ's at His coming."

 

[peldom10]

FreeGrace2 said:
Then please prove it with verses that describe Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.

No one has done that. Can you?

Sure. Something is something. Nothing is nothing.

What you have not done is share a verse that describes Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven. Because He won't be doing that.


This doesn't make sense. What is your point?

I don't have to "apply" anything but what the Bible directly says. The resurrection of all believers will occur at the Second Advent.

I've shared the verses that say all this. No inference, no transference, no speculation. Just straight Scripture.

Wrong and wrong.

Show me where I said that? about Heaven...you can not.
so play your game by yourself.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Wrong and wrong.

Show me where I said that? about Heaven...you can not.
so play your game by yourself.

Are you a pretrib rapture believer?

 

[DavidTree]

Can you explain what the verse means which says:

"[re: resurrection] but EACH [a word meaning 'of more than two'] in his own ORDER / RANK" (if there remains ONLY ONE at one point in time, as you and others suggest) ?



...and why that verse goes on to further state:

"Christ firstfruit [or, firstfruit Christ--no definite article], and then [i.e. ONLY THEN] they that ARE Christ's at His coming."

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits,
afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
1 Cor 15:20-23

What are you not understanding here in 1Cor 15:20-23 ???

 

[peldom10]

Are you a pretrib rapture believer?

End of discussion.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Do you believe the Fifth Seal the Resurrection?

That was the unity of souls with Christ. Bodies are not resurrected yet.

By the way, do you believe that Revelation was written in chiastic structure, which means the first half mirrors the second half? I tend to believe that Rev 12 is the dividing line, Rev 13-15 and the seven seals are the same, seven trumpets and seven bowls are the same, just written from different perspectives. One rabbi calls this the “menorah pattern”.

 

[DavidTree]

That was the unity of souls with Christ. Bodies are not resurrected yet.

By the way, do you believe that Revelation was written in chiastic structure, which means the first half mirrors the second half? I tend to believe that Rev 12 is the dividing line, Rev 13-15 and the seven seals are the same, seven trumpets and seven bowls are the same, just written from different perspectives. One rabbi calls this the “menorah pattern”.

Repeating Message with Different Perspectives = 100% Correct

The 5th Seal is not the Resurrection but i am curious to see if that was the thoughts of member Goliath.

 

[Beckie]

FreeGrace2 said:
I cited His Words in Matt 22:30 and Luke 14:14 where He used the singular for resurrection.

OK, thanks for some clarity. I assume you are referring to John 5:28,29?

28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice
29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

There is nothing in these 2 verses that say that both resurrections will occur at the same time. And Rev 20:5 clearly shows that the resurrection of the saved will be 1,000 years before the resurrection of the unsaved.

Jn 5:28,29 says there will be a resurrection of the saved and one of the unsaved, just as Acts 24:15 does as well.

Or were you thinking of another verse/passage?

Jesus clearly says the resurrection of the saved is the last DAY. Believing the Words of Jesus ,when He says last day how does one count 1000 years when there are no days by which to count time.

 

[Goliath]

Do you believe the Fifth Seal the Resurrection?

No...I believe the sixth seal to be the resurrection...and when the GREAT Tribulation Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24 actually starts. I consider the opening of the 5th seal the start of a greater tribulation period, greater than man has ever known. Thats why I also refer to it as the great tribulation..because that is where it all begins.

And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matthew 24:31

And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
Revelation 7:1

 

[DavidTree]

No...I believe the sixth seal to be the resurrection...and when the GREAT Tribulation Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24 actually starts. I consider the opening of the 5th seal the start of a greater tribulation period, greater than man has ever known. Thats why I also refer to it as the great tribulation..because that is where it all begins.

And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matthew 24:31

And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
Revelation 7:1

You have read and understood correctly - wonderful.

It is refreshing to see brethren fearing God by not "adding to or taking away" from the words of God.

 

[pottersclay]

What many miss here in scripture is the added title Jesus has in the new testament the title of bridegroom.
Jesus fulfills all the titles given to him. From the passover lamb to King of kings Lord of lords.
Notice that in the story of abraham (type of fhe father) sent his servant (type of the Holy Spirit) out to find a bride for his son (type of christ). And brought the bride back to the son. Just a glimps of what will take place.

 

[DavidTree]

Jesus clearly says the resurrection of the saved is the last DAY. Believing the Words of Jesus ,when He says last day how does one count 1000 years when there are no days by which to count time.

Six days a man is to work but on the 7th day you shall REST.

"For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day "

Scripture is a mystery that is only revealed by prayer and study with the Holy Spirit.

If we are only examining 9/10 of the scriptures, we may not have the complete picture in view.

 

[DavidTree]

What many miss here in scripture is the added title Jesus has in the new testament the title of bridegroom.
Jesus fulfills all the titles given to him. From the passover lamb to King of kings Lord of lords.
Notice that in the story of abraham (type of fhe father) sent his servant (type of the Holy Spirit) out to find a bride for his son (type of christ). And brought the bride back to the son. Just a glimps of what will take place.

Are you inclined towards 'cessation of Gifts' ???

 

[FreeGrace2]

Jesus clearly says the resurrection of the saved is the last DAY. Believing the Words of Jesus ,when He says last day how does one count 1000 years when there are no days by which to count time.

This is a very good question. Thanks.

The words "last day" can refer to a number of things. Because we know there will be eternity, there will be "the last (final) day before God melts the earth and brings in the new earth. Rev 21

So, here are some "last days" to consider when coming to the words:

1. the last day before the Trib begins.
2. the last day before the Millennium begins.
3. the last day of the Millennium.

So, context matters. Hope this helps.

So, the resurrection of all saints on the last day would be the last day of the Trib. The next day will be the first day of the Millennial reign.

 

[Beckie]

This is a very good question. Thanks.

The words "last day" can refer to a number of things. Because we know there will be eternity, there will be "the last (final) day before God melts the earth and brings in the new earth. Rev 21

So, here are some "last days" to consider when coming to the words:

1. the last day before the Trib begins.
2. the last day before the Millennium begins.
3. the last day of the Millennium.

So, context matters. Hope this helps.

So, the resurrection of all saints on the last day would be the last day of the Trib. The next day will be the first day of the Millennial reign.

Yes the contest matters in this passage Jesus is speaking of the resurrection . The resurrection is the context. He does say last days He clearly says last day . He is not saying last days of.

 

[Goliath]

You have read and understood correctly - wonderful.

It is refreshing to see brethren fearing God by not "adding to or taking away" from the words of God.

Well Thanks brother...I guess, Like you, I don't believe I need to speak for the Bible, for the Bible can speak for itself.

 

[Beckie]

No...I believe the sixth seal to be the resurrection...and when the GREAT Tribulation Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24 actually starts. I consider the opening of the 5th seal the start of a greater tribulation period, greater than man has ever known. Thats why I also refer to it as the great tribulation..because that is where it all begins.

And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matthew 24:31

And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
Revelation 7:1

Jesus does not speak of ( the great tribulation ) He simply says great tribulation. He did not give a span of time a `title`

 

[pottersclay]

Are you inclined towards 'cessation of Gifts' ???

Gifts are stll for today...if you understand what the gifts are all about.
Its hard to mirror jesus with no gifts to show.
The gifts of the Holy Spirit are for the ministry of the gospel its not intended for personal use as some may believe.
Jesus said we wil do the works that he did and even greater works.

 

[DavidTree]

Gifts are stll for today...if you understand what the gifts are all about.
Its hard to mirror jesus with no gifts to show.
The gifts of the Holy Spirit are for the ministry of the gospel its not intended for personal use as some may believe.
Jesus said we wil do the works that he did and even greater works.

One Gift is for personal edification and is strictly between God and His son.
There are two exceptions, all of which are at the discretion of the Holy Spirit:
a. when there the LORD wants to speak thru you to Jewish person(s) as a witness beyond the written language
b. when there is someone with the Gift to Interpret present


1 Corinthians 14:1-5
Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.
For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.
But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.
I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

 

[pottersclay]

I really find it hard to believe that any one thinks a harvest takes place in one day.
If you went to a farmer he'd laugh. Anyone thats planted a garden can tell you its different times but the same garden.
Jesus was the first fruits where if you read very carefully after his resurrection and before his visit with thomas he went to the father as first fruits and as the high priest.
Then returned to give physical evidence to Thomas.
Women dont touch me vrs thomas examine my wounds. Tell me you missed that??. Actually many do.