Any Post or Non-Tribbers in Here?

[cv5]

Because the bride is New Jerusalem, a city. Angel explained in 17:18 that Great Babylon was also a city, that's Satan's counterfeit of New Jerusalem. John only HEARD about the marriage supper of the Lamb, what he finally SAW was New Jerusalem.

No, you've got that all wrong. Jesus is not marrying a city. Ridiculous.

The marriage of the Church and the Lamb occurs EARLIER, BEFORE the Second Coming per Revelation 19:7.

Then, Revelation 19:9, a blessing is proclaimed for those that are called to be the wedding supper ***guests***.....which are Jews and Gentiles who survive the great tribulation who are dwelling upon the earth (also resurrected OT Saints, and resurrected tribulation saints).

THEN the Second Coming occurs per Revelation 19:11.

Revelation 21:2 occurs post millennium in the new creation. The new Jerusalem so noted is the HOME of already married WIFE of the Lamb. By this time they have been married 1000 years.....still newlyweds.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Jesus currently has a throne in heaven right next to His Father's throne.

Jesus WILL HAVE a throne on earth when He "rules the nations with a rod of iron" after the Tribulation is over.

Do you disagree with what I posted?

Do you read Rev 20 literally or figuratively?

Jesus is - King of glory, King of heaven, King of the ages, King of Righteousness, King of Judah, King of Israel, King of the nations, and finally King of Kings....

All true! But what this this have to do with answering my questions?

Jesus holds all those Kingship titles and some were pre His manifestation on earth and some after. Remember He was born `King of the Jews.` Jesus` kingship is not from any authority on the earth. In His glorified body Jesus was appointed of the Father as King on Mount Zion in heaven. (Ps. 2: 6, Heb. 12: 22)

Again, all true, but does not address any of my questions.

Jesus is King and always has been. It is the Father`s purpose to have all things in heaven and earth under the rule of the Son. (Eph. 1: 10) However because there has been rebellion in every realm those rebellious rules and authorities need to be put down. (1 Cor. 15: 24 & 25)

No argument, and does not address my questions.

And that is a process that starts when the Lord in His glorified body takes His rightful throne in the angelic realm and begins the judgments. His Body is with Him. (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3)

What do you mean by a "process"??

Rev. 20, unfolds quite naturally and logically as God sums up those involved in the world system that gets judged by the Lord and His body. (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3) He is the supreme court judge and His Body is the court. There is no other court of appeal.

All this is true, and STILL doesn't address any of my questions.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Well, there's more here to agree with. 1 Thess 4 is the "classic rapture" passage, yet has NO MENTION of a glorified trip to heaven. That is significant.

Right. Because there is no heaven reference, or trip up to heaven. Which is my point.

I have no problem with that finding so, you have me mixed with someone.
Further thought....Christ is destined for 1000 years on earth after the trib period. Maybe, whomever thinks of that, is thinking after the mullenium reign.

So, you are not a pretribber?

My apologies then.

 

[Marilyn]

No, you've got that all wrong. Jesus is not marrying a city. Ridiculous.

The marriage of the Church and the Lamb occurs EARLIER, BEFORE the Second Coming per Revelation 19:7.

Then, Revelation 19:9, a blessing is proclaimed for those that are called to be the wedding supper ***guests***.....which are Jews and Gentiles who survive the great tribulation who are dwelling upon the earth (also resurrected OT Saints, and resurrected tribulation saints).

THEN the Second Coming occurs per Revelation 19:11.

Revelation 21:2 occurs post millennium in the new creation. The new Jerusalem so noted is the HOME of already married WIFE of the Lamb. By this time they have been married 1000 years.....still newlyweds.

And how is the Lord going to `consummate` the marriage. Pardon me for getting personal but this - male now female now marrying Jesus is just ridiculous.

 

[DavidTree]

No, you've got that all wrong. Jesus is not marrying a city. Ridiculous.

The marriage of the Church and the Lamb occurs EARLIER, BEFORE the Second Coming per Revelation 19:7.

Then, Revelation 19:9, a blessing is proclaimed for those that are called to be the wedding supper ***guests***.....which are Jews and Gentiles who survive the great tribulation who are dwelling upon the earth (also resurrected OT Saints, and resurrected tribulation saints).

THEN the Second Coming occurs per Revelation 19:11.

Revelation 21:2 occurs post millennium in the new creation. The new Jerusalem so noted is the HOME of already married WIFE of the Lamb. By this time they have been married 1000 years.....still newlyweds.

Since you have studied this subject for ,many years now i have a question.

Here is my question(s) :
Can you please post the scriptures where the LORD and/or His Apostles declare and instruct us of:
Christ descending to rapture a select group of (any of the following) His Sons/Saints/Bride/Church/Elect BEFORE His Second Coming thereby leaving behind Saints that must go thru great tribulation AND then His Second Coming for the Resurrection and rapture for another group of Saints.

Thank You

 

[Marilyn]

The Apostle John does here in his Gospel that he wrote = clear as Day.

John answered and said, “A man can receive nothing unless it has been given to him from heaven.
You yourselves bear me witness, that I said, ‘I am not the Christ,’ but, ‘I have been sent before Him.’
He who has the bride is the bridegroom;
John 3:27

Clear as Day - Mark 2:19-20
And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? as long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast.

Clear as Day
“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well. 2In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?b 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am. 4You know the way to the place where I am going.

Clear as Day
2 Corinthians 11:2 - For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.

25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26that He might [g]sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30For we are members of His body, [h]of His flesh and of His bones. 31“For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

John 3: 29 is about the nation of Israel. This was well known. (Isa. 54)
Mark 2: 19 - 20 Same again. Jesus came to Israel.

2 Cor. 11: 2. Paul is talking to HIS disciples and wanting them to be pure. He will PRESENT them to the Lord. Paul DOES NOT PRESENT US to the Jude. The Lord, Himself does that. (Jude 24)

Eph. 5: 23 - 33. This is an EXHORTATION for HUSBANDS to LOVE their wives as Christ does HIS BODY.

Nothing there about the NEW MAN becoming female (transgender) and then marrying Jesus, (homosexual). whether physical or so called spiritual it is revolting.

How many men do you say `Come to Jesus and be His bride? `

Do you know that people are calling some songs `Jesus my boyfriend,` type songs. Horror.

Time for MEN to be MEN and not receive such a `demonic` teaching.

Now you are a fisherman Dave, and I`m sure a man`s man, not poofie. So I would encourage you to look further into this horrendous teaching and not claim that on yourself - to be called a female or to marry a man.

 

[DavidTree]

And how is the Lord going to `consummate` the marriage. Pardon me for getting personal but this - male now female now marrying Jesus is just ridiculous.

I am still waiting for you.

Here is my question(s) again :
Can you please post the scriptures where the LORD and/or His Apostles declare and instruct us of:
Christ descending to rapture a select group of (any of the following) His Sons/Saints/Bride/Church/Elect BEFORE His Second Coming thereby leaving behind Saints that must go thru great tribulation AND then His Second Coming for the Resurrection and rapture for another group of Saints.

Thank You

 

[Marilyn]

I am still waiting for you.

Here is my question(s) again :
Can you please post the scriptures where the LORD and/or His Apostles declare and instruct us of:
Christ descending to rapture a select group of (any of the following) His Sons/Saints/Bride/Church/Elect BEFORE His Second Coming thereby leaving behind Saints that must go thru great tribulation AND then His Second Coming for the Resurrection and rapture for another group of Saints.

Thank You

I answered and you have not replied to those scriptures.

 

[DavidTree]

I answered and you have not replied to those scriptures.

I reviewed your posts to me but you did not directly answer the question:

Can you please post the scriptures where the LORD and/or His Apostles declare and instruct us of:
Christ descending to rapture a select group of (any of the following) His Sons/Saints/Bride/Church/Elect BEFORE His Second Coming thereby leaving behind Saints that must go thru great tribulation AND then His Second Coming for the Resurrection and rapture for another group of Saints.

Please find the scripture verses that specifically state:
1.) BEFORE His Coming, Christ will rapture His Elect/Saints/Church
2.) BEFORE the Resurrection Christ will rapture His Elect/Saints/Church
3.) Saints are left behind AFTER His Coming and the Resurrection

 

[FreeGrace2]

The marriage of the Church and the Lamb occurs EARLIER, BEFORE the Second Coming per Revelation 19:7.

Since Rev 19 does speak about the wedding supper and the bride/wife "making herself ready", which is immediately followed by the same people in the same uniform (white linen) getting ready to accompany Jesus to earth for the battle of Armageddon, when you think the wedding does occur? Going by the wording of preparation in Rev 19, it would seem the wedding is just before the Second Advent. But that doesn't make sense, since pretribbers claim all believers are resurrected/raptured to heaven before the Trib. If so, why would the wedding wait until the end of the Trib to occur? That doesn't make sense.

What makes better sense is that Rev 19 shows preparation which is immediately followed by the return to earth with Christ to end the battle and set up His kingdom.

Then, Revelation 19:9, a blessing is proclaimed for those that are called to be the wedding supper ***guests***.....which are Jews and Gentiles who survive the great tribulation who are dwelling upon the earth (also resurrected OT Saints, and resurrected tribulation saints).

Listen closely to the verse: Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!” And he added, “These are the true words of God.”

So, IF there will be a pretrib rapture to heaven, why would John be told to write "blessed are those WHO ARE INVITED TO THE WEDDING", IF the wedding took place when the resurrected/raptured believers went to heaven 7 years previous?

If that were true, John would have been told to write: blessed are those who WERE invited". Not who ARE invited.

Just one of the problems for pretribbers to ignore.

THEN the Second Coming occurs per Revelation 19:11.

Immediately. Which is a problem for pretribbers. It means the wedding at the END of the Trib up in heaven.

Yet, the Bible teaches there is just one resurrection of the saved, and that is clearly stated as occurring at the Second Advent (coming) of the Lord.

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
2 Thess 2:1 - Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,
Rev 20:5 - (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

So, it makes no sense for the wedding to occur in heaven at the end of the Tribulation.

 

[ewq1938]

Now you are a fisherman Dave, and I`m sure a man`s man, not poofie. So I would encourage you to look further into this horrendous teaching and not claim that on yourself - to be called a female or to marry a man.

It's a symbolic marriage. There is no "consummation" or men marrying a man.

 

[DavidTree]

Hi David,

I don`t see any scripture telling men especially that they are a `bride.` Paul reveals by the Spirit that we, the BODY are the NEW MAN. (Eph. 2: 15)

Individual men are not becoming a female bride.

A corporate Body is formed when the Father calls us to His SON and we become His Bride in SYMBOLIC form.

Christ and His Church is symbolic of a Husband and his Wife

Just as Jew and Gentile are joined into One Body.

In the Resurrection there is neither male nor female for we are all consider Sons of God.

 

[ewq1938]

Individual men are not becoming a female bride.

Right, and men and women are not turning into a building either (The Church).

 

[DavidTree]

Right, and men and women are not turning into a building either (The Church).

Thank you for that - lol

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

No, you've got that all wrong. Jesus is not marrying a city. Ridiculous.

The marriage of the Church and the Lamb occurs EARLIER, BEFORE the Second Coming per Revelation 19:7.

Then, Revelation 19:9, a blessing is proclaimed for those that are called to be the wedding supper ***guests***.....which are Jews and Gentiles who survive the great tribulation who are dwelling upon the earth (also resurrected OT Saints, and resurrected tribulation saints).

THEN the Second Coming occurs per Revelation 19:11.

Revelation 21:2 occurs post millennium in the new creation. The new Jerusalem so noted is the HOME of already married WIFE of the Lamb. By this time they have been married 1000 years.....still newlyweds.

Then why did the Bible say so in Rev 21:2 and 21:9-10? It’s not written in cryptic codes, the bride is positively identified as New Jerusalem. And Jesus is no longer a man in there, but the temple and it’s light (Rev. 21:23-24). This marriage is symbolic, you have to take it as whatever the Bible says it is, not what you think it means.

 

[DavidTree]

No, you've got that all wrong. Jesus is not marrying a city. Ridiculous.

The marriage of the Church and the Lamb occurs EARLIER, BEFORE the Second Coming per Revelation 19:7.

Then, Revelation 19:9, a blessing is proclaimed for those that are called to be the wedding supper ***guests***.....which are Jews and Gentiles who survive the great tribulation who are dwelling upon the earth (also resurrected OT Saints, and resurrected tribulation saints).

THEN the Second Coming occurs per Revelation 19:11.

Revelation 21:2 occurs post millennium in the new creation. The new Jerusalem so noted is the HOME of already married WIFE of the Lamb. By this time they have been married 1000 years.....still newlyweds.

Keep in mind the Truth:

#1 the Marriage was pre-ordained since the foundation of the world.
#2 the Marriage was officiated with His Blood, Resurrection and the Holy Spirit
#3 the Groom and Bride 'Knowing' is thru the Holy Spirit
#4 the Brides Completion is determined by the Father as spoken in Revelation ch6 and that Completion is seen in ch19
#5 Therefore it is IMPOSSIBLE for any pre-trib rapture to occur before His Coming and the Resurrection.
#6 the earthbound nation Israel will not be restored until His Coming
#7 there is no separation between Jew & Gentile in the Bride of Christ
#8 there is no rapture until His Coming and the Resurrection = Confirmed in 1 & 2 Thess, 1 John and Rev ch6 - ch19

 

[DavidTree]

I answered and you have not replied to those scriptures.

Keep in mind the Truth:

#1 the Marriage was pre-ordained since the foundation of the world.
#2 the Marriage was officiated with His Blood, Resurrection and the Holy Spirit
#3 the Groom and Bride 'Knowing' is thru the Holy Spirit
#4 the Brides Completion is determined by the Father as spoken in Revelation ch6 and that Completion is seen in ch19
#5 Therefore it is IMPOSSIBLE for any pre-trib rapture to occur before His Coming and the Resurrection.
#6 the earthbound nation Israel will not be restored until His Coming
#7 there is no separation between Jew & Gentile in the Bride of Christ
#8 there is no rapture until His Coming and the Resurrection = Confirmed in 1 & 2 Thess, 1 John and Rev ch6 - ch19

 

[JAPOV]

God's judgment upon this Earth is for the ungodly who reject Him! Not the true church! Not the saints who return with Him to put an end to those who would destroy the Earth! And certainly not His bride!

 

[Magenta]

It's a symbolic marriage. There is no "consummation" or men marrying a man.

A union

 

[Magenta]

Right, and men and women are not turning into a building either (The Church).

As you come to Him, the living stone, rejected by men but chosen and precious in
God’s sight, you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be
a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.