And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil
- Thread starter kleronomos
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Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
2288. thanatos ►
Strong's Concordance
thanatos: death
Original Word: θάνατος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: thanatos
Phonetic Spelling: (than'-at-os)
Definition: death
Usage: death, physical or spiritual.
HELPS Word-studies
2288 thánatos (derived from 2348 /thnḗskō, "to die") – physical or spiritual death; (figuratively) separation from the life (salvation) of God forever by dying without first experiencing death to self to receive His gift of salvation.
Spiritually DEAD and Physically DEAD = DEAD DEAD
And not you should be afraid of those killing the body the however soul not being able to kill
you should fear however rather the {One} being able BOTH soul and body to destroy in hell
And now we are being told by the WISDOME OF MAN that just because He is able doesn't mean that He does?
Then WHAT is there TO FEAR if He never does????
That is how the wisdom of man makes void the words of God. They sound so wise in the ways of the world but they do NOT SPIRITUALLY DISCERN.
If the PENALTY FOR SIN IS DEATH and one is KILLED in the lake of fire, then PUNISHMENT has been carried out and it will have been carried out forever.
THAT explanation is no different than the ONE THEY KEEP INSISTING is TRUTH with a couple exceptions and one of those is THE OPPOSITE OF LIFE IS DEATH. DEATH IS NOT ETERNAL PUNISHMENT. ONE DOES NOT HAVE TO REMAIN ALIVE AND FEELING THE PUNISHMENT FOR THE PUNISHMENT TO 1. HAVE TAKEN PLACE AND 2. THAT NEVER CHANGE.
The BIBLE DEFINITELY tell us over and over that the OPPOSITE OF LIFE IS DEATH, AND NOT ETERNAL TORMENT.
That is how the TWIST is performed ON what is written . Doesn't matter that the opposite of life is death. It is just ignored like it isn't written and then WE are made to feel like WE are lacking in understanding.
TO GIVE ETERNAL LIFE to those who were not saved FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE TO TORTURE is twisted.
AND WHO is being tortured? Those who didn't believe. Those who didn't come to faith. HOW DIFFERENT are we? Just because WE HAVE BEEN DRAWN to God and they haven't they are tormented, forever? Seriously??? And these are to be judging the angels? SCARY, very SCARY.
Do those, WHO NEVER ASKED TO BE CREATED, who love the ways of this world more than God, DESERVING OF ETERNAL TORMENT? BECAUSE THIS IS THE REAL QUESTION. WHY,
Isn't dying GOOD ENOUGH? How is CEASING to exist NOT ENOUGH PUNISHMENT FOR SOME? What would an evil person want? Them to be tortured forever?
Where is COMPASSION AND MERCY to be found in the Saint? HOW ANYONE WHO HAS LOVE within them see that as BEING JUST and right and HOLY?
There is NOTHING anyone can say that will ever make me believe it.
DEATH is A GOOD enough punishment for me. Knowing these evil souls will never be raised up again SEEMS LIKE HEAVEN TO ME.
HOW MUCH DIFFERENT ARE WE?
Psalm 78:7 That they might set their hope in God, and not forget the works of God, but keep his commandments:
Psalm 78:8 And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God.
Psalm 78:9 The children of Ephraim, being armed, and carrying bows, turned back in the day of battle.
Psalm 78:10 They kept not the covenant of God, and refused to walk in his law;
Psalm 78:19 Yea, they spake against God; they said, Can God furnish a table in the wilderness?
Psalm 78:20 Behold, he smote the rock, that the waters gushed out, and the streams overflowed; can he give bread also? can he provide flesh for his people?
Psalm 78:21 Therefore the LORD heard this, and was wroth: so a fire was kindled against Jacob, and anger also came up against Israel;
Psalm 78:22 Because they believed not in God, and trusted not in his salvation:
Psalm 78:23 Though he had commanded the clouds from above, and opened the doors of heaven,
Psalm 78:24 And had rained down manna upon them to eat, and had given them of the corn of heaven.
Psalm 78:25 Man did eat angels' food: he sent them meat to the full.
But if you happen to be one who chose the ways of the world then ITS ETERNAL TORMENT FOR YOU????????? I am not GOD but even I know GOD DOESN'T SEE THAT AS RIGHT AND JUST.
Psalm 78:31 The wrath of God came upon them, and slew the fattest of them, and smote down the chosen men of Israel.
Psalm 78:32 For all this they sinned still, and believed not for his wondrous works.
Psalm 78:33 Therefore their days did he consume in vanity, and their years in trouble.
Psalm 78:34 When he slew them, then they sought him: and they returned and enquired early after God.
Psalm 78:35 And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.
Psalm 78:36 Nevertheless they did flatter him with their mouth, and they lied unto him with their tongues.
Psalm 78:37 For their heart was not right with him, neither were they stedfast in his covenant.
Psalm 78:38 But he, being full of compassion, forgave their iniquity, and destroyed them not: yea, many a time turned he his anger away, and did not stir up all his wrath.
BUT if someone choses the ways of the world over HIS WAS then it's eternal torment??????? Again, I am not God but THAT IS NOT JUST AND IS NOT RIGHT and there is nothing a man will ever say that will make it so. I know the thought of God.
Psalm 78:39 For he remembered that they were but flesh; a wind that passeth away, and cometh not again.
AND THEY ARE ALL GOING TO BE FINE AND LIVE ETERNALLY IN HEAVEN BECAUSE OF THE PROMISES MADE TO THEIR FATHERS BUT THOSE WHO WEREN'T BORN INTO THIS FAMILY
They are going to be PUNISHED FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER BECAUSE SOMEHOW OUR GOD WHO IS FULL OF COMPASSION AND MERCY AND REPENTS OF EVIL WHICH HE THINKS TO DO
WANTS THEM TO BE TORTURED FOREVER AND EVER for not CHOOSING HIM????????? No way.
How easily evil does betray itself.
They are just flesh and like the wind BUT THEY NEED THE PUNISHMENT that never end, NEVER a hope or chance of mercy. Never for it to ever stop. They must live on and on and on so that they wil know forever and ever how totally stupid they were.
I don't know WHOS' GOD THAT IS A DESCRIPTION OF BUT THAT ISN'T A DESCRIPTION OF MY GOD. MY GOD IS HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS AND JUST, and I know my GOD would never do that even to those who HATE HIM because HE IS SO MUCH BETTER THAN THAT.
So for all those who need eternal torture for those who aren't ALL THAT DIFFERENT than we are GOOD LUCK COME JUDGEMENT DAY BECAUSE THE JUDGMENT THAT YOU THINK IS JUST AND RIGHT AND HOLY IS THE JUDGMENT IN WHICH YOU WILL BE JUDGED.
Psalm 86:15 But thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion, and gracious, longsuffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth.
Psalm 86:16 O turn unto me, and have mercy upon me; give thy strength unto thy servant, and save the son of thine handmaid.
Psalm 86:17 Shew me a token for good; that they which hate me may see it, and be ashamed: because thou, LORD, hast holpen me, and comforted me.
Psalm 88:5 Free among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, whom thou rememberest no more: and they are cut off from thy hand.
Psalm 89:13 Thou hast a mighty arm: strong is thy hand, and high is thy right hand.
Psalm 89:14 Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.
Psalm 89:15 Blessed is the people that know the joyful sound: they shall walk, O LORD, in the light of thy countenance.
Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Romans 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Romans 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
NOT ETERNAL LIFE IN TORMENT, WHAT EVER THE DEGREE
2288. thanatos ►
Strong's Concordance
thanatos: death
Original Word: θάνατος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: thanatos
Phonetic Spelling: (than'-at-os)
Definition: death
Usage: death, physical or spiritual.
HELPS Word-studies
2288 thánatos (derived from 2348 /thnḗskō, "to die") – physical or spiritual death; (figuratively) separation from the life (salvation) of God forever by dying without first experiencing death to self to receive His gift of salvation.
Spiritually DEAD and Physically DEAD = DEAD DEAD
And not you should be afraid of those killing the body the however soul not being able to kill
you should fear however rather the {One} being able BOTH soul and body to destroy in hell
And now we are being told by the WISDOME OF MAN that just because He is able doesn't mean that He does?
Then WHAT is there TO FEAR if He never does????
That is how the wisdom of man makes void the words of God. They sound so wise in the ways of the world but they do NOT SPIRITUALLY DISCERN.
If the PENALTY FOR SIN IS DEATH and one is KILLED in the lake of fire, then PUNISHMENT has been carried out and it will have been carried out forever.
THAT explanation is no different than the ONE THEY KEEP INSISTING is TRUTH with a couple exceptions and one of those is THE OPPOSITE OF LIFE IS DEATH. DEATH IS NOT ETERNAL PUNISHMENT. ONE DOES NOT HAVE TO REMAIN ALIVE AND FEELING THE PUNISHMENT FOR THE PUNISHMENT TO 1. HAVE TAKEN PLACE AND 2. THAT NEVER CHANGE.
The BIBLE DEFINITELY tell us over and over that the OPPOSITE OF LIFE IS DEATH, AND NOT ETERNAL TORMENT.
That is how the TWIST is performed ON what is written . Doesn't matter that the opposite of life is death. It is just ignored like it isn't written and then WE are made to feel like WE are lacking in understanding.
TO GIVE ETERNAL LIFE to those who were not saved FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE TO TORTURE is twisted.
AND WHO is being tortured? Those who didn't believe. Those who didn't come to faith. HOW DIFFERENT are we? Just because WE HAVE BEEN DRAWN to God and they haven't they are tormented, forever? Seriously??? And these are to be judging the angels? SCARY, very SCARY.
Do those, WHO NEVER ASKED TO BE CREATED, who love the ways of this world more than God, DESERVING OF ETERNAL TORMENT? BECAUSE THIS IS THE REAL QUESTION. WHY,
Isn't dying GOOD ENOUGH? How is CEASING to exist NOT ENOUGH PUNISHMENT FOR SOME? What would an evil person want? Them to be tortured forever?
Where is COMPASSION AND MERCY to be found in the Saint? HOW ANYONE WHO HAS LOVE within them see that as BEING JUST and right and HOLY?
There is NOTHING anyone can say that will ever make me believe it.
DEATH is A GOOD enough punishment for me. Knowing these evil souls will never be raised up again SEEMS LIKE HEAVEN TO ME.
HOW MUCH DIFFERENT ARE WE?
Psalm 78:7 That they might set their hope in God, and not forget the works of God, but keep his commandments:
Psalm 78:8 And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God.
Psalm 78:9 The children of Ephraim, being armed, and carrying bows, turned back in the day of battle.
Psalm 78:10 They kept not the covenant of God, and refused to walk in his law;
Psalm 78:19 Yea, they spake against God; they said, Can God furnish a table in the wilderness?
Psalm 78:20 Behold, he smote the rock, that the waters gushed out, and the streams overflowed; can he give bread also? can he provide flesh for his people?
Psalm 78:21 Therefore the LORD heard this, and was wroth: so a fire was kindled against Jacob, and anger also came up against Israel;
Psalm 78:22 Because they believed not in God, and trusted not in his salvation:
Psalm 78:23 Though he had commanded the clouds from above, and opened the doors of heaven,
Psalm 78:24 And had rained down manna upon them to eat, and had given them of the corn of heaven.
Psalm 78:25 Man did eat angels' food: he sent them meat to the full.
But if you happen to be one who chose the ways of the world then ITS ETERNAL TORMENT FOR YOU????????? I am not GOD but even I know GOD DOESN'T SEE THAT AS RIGHT AND JUST.
Psalm 78:31 The wrath of God came upon them, and slew the fattest of them, and smote down the chosen men of Israel.
Psalm 78:32 For all this they sinned still, and believed not for his wondrous works.
Psalm 78:33 Therefore their days did he consume in vanity, and their years in trouble.
Psalm 78:34 When he slew them, then they sought him: and they returned and enquired early after God.
Psalm 78:35 And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.
Psalm 78:36 Nevertheless they did flatter him with their mouth, and they lied unto him with their tongues.
Psalm 78:37 For their heart was not right with him, neither were they stedfast in his covenant.
Psalm 78:38 But he, being full of compassion, forgave their iniquity, and destroyed them not: yea, many a time turned he his anger away, and did not stir up all his wrath.
BUT if someone choses the ways of the world over HIS WAS then it's eternal torment??????? Again, I am not God but THAT IS NOT JUST AND IS NOT RIGHT and there is nothing a man will ever say that will make it so. I know the thought of God.
Psalm 78:39 For he remembered that they were but flesh; a wind that passeth away, and cometh not again.
AND THEY ARE ALL GOING TO BE FINE AND LIVE ETERNALLY IN HEAVEN BECAUSE OF THE PROMISES MADE TO THEIR FATHERS BUT THOSE WHO WEREN'T BORN INTO THIS FAMILY
They are going to be PUNISHED FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER BECAUSE SOMEHOW OUR GOD WHO IS FULL OF COMPASSION AND MERCY AND REPENTS OF EVIL WHICH HE THINKS TO DO
WANTS THEM TO BE TORTURED FOREVER AND EVER for not CHOOSING HIM????????? No way.
How easily evil does betray itself.
They are just flesh and like the wind BUT THEY NEED THE PUNISHMENT that never end, NEVER a hope or chance of mercy. Never for it to ever stop. They must live on and on and on so that they wil know forever and ever how totally stupid they were.
I don't know WHOS' GOD THAT IS A DESCRIPTION OF BUT THAT ISN'T A DESCRIPTION OF MY GOD. MY GOD IS HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS AND JUST, and I know my GOD would never do that even to those who HATE HIM because HE IS SO MUCH BETTER THAN THAT.
So for all those who need eternal torture for those who aren't ALL THAT DIFFERENT than we are GOOD LUCK COME JUDGEMENT DAY BECAUSE THE JUDGMENT THAT YOU THINK IS JUST AND RIGHT AND HOLY IS THE JUDGMENT IN WHICH YOU WILL BE JUDGED.
Psalm 86:15 But thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion, and gracious, longsuffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth.
Psalm 86:16 O turn unto me, and have mercy upon me; give thy strength unto thy servant, and save the son of thine handmaid.
Psalm 86:17 Shew me a token for good; that they which hate me may see it, and be ashamed: because thou, LORD, hast holpen me, and comforted me.
Psalm 88:5 Free among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, whom thou rememberest no more: and they are cut off from thy hand.
Psalm 89:13 Thou hast a mighty arm: strong is thy hand, and high is thy right hand.
Psalm 89:14 Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.
Psalm 89:15 Blessed is the people that know the joyful sound: they shall walk, O LORD, in the light of thy countenance.
Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Romans 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Romans 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
NOT ETERNAL LIFE IN TORMENT, WHAT EVER THE DEGREE
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I would not allow any to make you feel like you lack understanding. We are to be convinced in our own minds, and if you
are, and it seems so to be sure, then you have nothing to fear, least of all the opinions of those who repeatedly elevate
un-Scriptural truths (such as: death is nothing to fear; death is what unbelievers want; death is not punishment) above
the revealed written Word of God. The lie at the heart of the fall of man and corruption of all creation is central to what
they promote. They very lie of Satan. Consider too that Jesus was purposed from before the creation of the world, because
God knew the choice mankind would make, and after man made that choice, God immediately took steps to prevent Adam
and Eve from living forever after in their sinful state, and yet the position of the nay-sayer is to claim that God will after all
allow some to live forever in such a state, and worse, doing to them the very things He finds detestable for humans to do.
are, and it seems so to be sure, then you have nothing to fear, least of all the opinions of those who repeatedly elevate
un-Scriptural truths (such as: death is nothing to fear; death is what unbelievers want; death is not punishment) above
the revealed written Word of God. The lie at the heart of the fall of man and corruption of all creation is central to what
they promote. They very lie of Satan. Consider too that Jesus was purposed from before the creation of the world, because
God knew the choice mankind would make, and after man made that choice, God immediately took steps to prevent Adam
and Eve from living forever after in their sinful state, and yet the position of the nay-sayer is to claim that God will after all
allow some to live forever in such a state, and worse, doing to them the very things He finds detestable for humans to do.
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Correct. God IS eternal life and gives it only to believers in Christ.
1 John 5;11 - And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
So no unbeliever will EVER have eternal life.
The Bible describes the LOF as a place of conscious punishment; shame, contempt. These aren't things a body experiences, but rather, the soul does. And the punishment is eternal, as Matt 25:46 clearly says.
You and Runner like to use James 4:12 - "There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?" as proof that God WILL destroy souls.
So, let's take that bit of "logic" and apply it to some other verses.
1 Tim 2-
3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior,
4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
Acts 17:30 - 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.
2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
So, applying YOUR logic about ability means action, all these verses should mean that EVERYONE will be saved and come to repentance, since God WANTS them to be and COMMANDS them to.
So, YOUR logic leads to universalism. Congrats.
1 John 5;11 - And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
So no unbeliever will EVER have eternal life.
The Bible describes the LOF as a place of conscious punishment; shame, contempt. These aren't things a body experiences, but rather, the soul does. And the punishment is eternal, as Matt 25:46 clearly says.
You and Runner like to use James 4:12 - "There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?" as proof that God WILL destroy souls.
So, let's take that bit of "logic" and apply it to some other verses.
1 Tim 2-
3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior,
4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
Acts 17:30 - 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.
2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
So, applying YOUR logic about ability means action, all these verses should mean that EVERYONE will be saved and come to repentance, since God WANTS them to be and COMMANDS them to.
So, YOUR logic leads to universalism. Congrats.
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Matthew 25:41 states the lake of fire is prepared for the devil and his angels.
Everyone has their own idea about what the term "his angels" means, however the word "angel" just means messenger, and the Bible uses the term to refer to either regular men or supernatural beings.
There are people, plenty of people, who are nothing more than messengers for Satan. They work tirelessly spreading his message and working to accomplish his work on this earth.
They are as much - if not moreso - angels as are demons because of the message they come with as well their impact on the Body of Christ.
Everyone has their own idea about what the term "his angels" means, however the word "angel" just means messenger, and the Bible uses the term to refer to either regular men or supernatural beings.
There are people, plenty of people, who are nothing more than messengers for Satan. They work tirelessly spreading his message and working to accomplish his work on this earth.
They are as much - if not moreso - angels as are demons because of the message they come with as well their impact on the Body of Christ.
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kleronomos said:
"EXCELLENT, Easy fix here, please just cite the Scripture that states souls are tormented in the lake of fire for ever. Like I said, ALL I could find was where it said the DEVIL would be. Looking forward to this TRUTH you possess."
You obviously love to create red herrings to attack.
Lam 1:20 - “See, LORD, how distressed I am! I am in torment within, and in my heart I am disturbed, for I have been most rebellious. Outside, the sword bereaves; inside, there is only death.
Lam 2:11 - My eyes fail from weeping, I am in torment within ; my heart is poured out on the ground because my people are destroyed,
because children and infants faint in the streets of the city.
Proof that it is the soul that experiences torment.
And The Bible DOESN'T say that just the Devil would be tormented. He will be cast into the LOF where the beast and FP ARE, meaning STILL ARE, after 1,000 years of already being IN the LOF.
Matt 25:41 says "the devil AND his angels", which the word means "messenger", so it could refer to both the fallen angels AND all humans who have been deceived by the devil.
"EXCELLENT, Easy fix here, please just cite the Scripture that states souls are tormented in the lake of fire for ever. Like I said, ALL I could find was where it said the DEVIL would be. Looking forward to this TRUTH you possess."
You obviously love to create red herrings to attack.
Lam 1:20 - “See, LORD, how distressed I am! I am in torment within, and in my heart I am disturbed, for I have been most rebellious. Outside, the sword bereaves; inside, there is only death.
Lam 2:11 - My eyes fail from weeping, I am in torment within ; my heart is poured out on the ground because my people are destroyed,
because children and infants faint in the streets of the city.
Proof that it is the soul that experiences torment.
And The Bible DOESN'T say that just the Devil would be tormented. He will be cast into the LOF where the beast and FP ARE, meaning STILL ARE, after 1,000 years of already being IN the LOF.
Matt 25:41 says "the devil AND his angels", which the word means "messenger", so it could refer to both the fallen angels AND all humans who have been deceived by the devil.
I believe he asked for a verse that proves eternal torment. Being put into eternal fire isn’t eternal torment when being put into the fire results in death. The line of reasoning you provided does not support what you seem to be suggesting.
Jesus concludes by putting it like this:
Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Notice that only the righteous get life eternal and the unrighteous do not. Their eternal punishment is death and not life eternal.
Jesus concludes by putting it like this:
Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Notice that only the righteous get life eternal and the unrighteous do not. Their eternal punishment is death and not life eternal.
Please STOP your red herrings about everlasting conscious punishment, torment, is "eternal life". It isn't. You just have to create a red herring with which to attack. It doesn't work.
NO ONE says unbelievers get eternal life in the LOF. So quit already. You continue to lose credibility when you create these red herrings.
What the Bible does say is that the punishment IS eternal. That the shame and contempt IS eternal. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand what this means.
It means the unbeliever will spend eternity in a state of shame and contempt. No body experiences these things. Only the soul does.
The mortal resurrected body WILL DIE AGAIN when cast into the LOF. That is the SECOND death.
And, neither of you guys will address that. Because it refutes your belief.
NO ONE says unbelievers get eternal life in the LOF. So quit already. You continue to lose credibility when you create these red herrings.
What the Bible does say is that the punishment IS eternal. That the shame and contempt IS eternal. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand what this means.
It means the unbeliever will spend eternity in a state of shame and contempt. No body experiences these things. Only the soul does.
The mortal resurrected body WILL DIE AGAIN when cast into the LOF. That is the SECOND death.
And, neither of you guys will address that. Because it refutes your belief.
What I’ve noticed is you project onto others what your intentions are before you do them. You’re preparing to use a red herring. I’ll point that out.
Those verses from Lamentstions are lamentings. He’s expressing his grief and sorrow, those are feelings. Nothing stated about it the soul there. You just used a red herring and twisted the Bible into your false doctrine.
The lake of fire is the second death. That’s quite clear. Are you saying the devil, beast and false prophet receive eternal life after rejecting the gospel of Christ? You’re on a slippery slope. You might want to rethink your whole perspective on the Bible.
Tormented day and night forever is apocalyptic language and it’s been used before in Isaiah 34:9,10 where it wasn’t literally forever. That means it isn’t literally for ever in the case of Revelation 20:10. You’re free to interpret it differently if you insist on ignoring the correct way to interpret it based on the guidance of Isaiah 34:9,10.
People were being told to depart into the fire “prepared for the devil and his angels” meaning that the people aren’t being referred to as the angels. Those are unsaved people being judged and destroyed in the LOF.
Those verses from Lamentstions are lamentings. He’s expressing his grief and sorrow, those are feelings. Nothing stated about it the soul there. You just used a red herring and twisted the Bible into your false doctrine.
The lake of fire is the second death. That’s quite clear. Are you saying the devil, beast and false prophet receive eternal life after rejecting the gospel of Christ? You’re on a slippery slope. You might want to rethink your whole perspective on the Bible.
Tormented day and night forever is apocalyptic language and it’s been used before in Isaiah 34:9,10 where it wasn’t literally forever. That means it isn’t literally for ever in the case of Revelation 20:10. You’re free to interpret it differently if you insist on ignoring the correct way to interpret it based on the guidance of Isaiah 34:9,10.
People were being told to depart into the fire “prepared for the devil and his angels” meaning that the people aren’t being referred to as the angels. Those are unsaved people being judged and destroyed in the LOF.