Amillennialists...Here's a chance to state your case.

[garee]

Ok back up to where you first quoted my post about the mark,image ect.

In Revelation 13:15 the beast is said by the Scriptures to be going to kill those who don't worship his image. Now if they were deceived and and worshiped his image then they would be spiritually dead but it don't say he kills the ones who worship his image it say he kills the ones who wont. So they are spiritually alive and he physically kills them because they wont worship his image.

In Revelation 19:21 those who are deceived are spiritually dead and he spiritually killed them. The problem is with what you saying if they are spiritually dead because they took the mark and worshiped his image then at the Lords coming they are already spiritually dead and so them being given to the sword and eaten by birds can only be physical because that's all that's left.

So who you need to convince this is all spiritual is fist Jesus Christ my Lord and then the beast because they both seem to be going to physically kill them or physically give them over to the sword and the fowls according to Scripture.

Hi thanks for the reply,

Those who die and are not raised to new spirit life have in effect been killed having not believed God. Satan is a murder from the beginning. We are born spiritually dead. Our corrupted spirit is dead along with a corrupted body. Given to the sword of the Spirit of God and eaten by birds are simply metaphors used to express death. The sword not seen kills, birds seen eat flesh and the flesh returns to the dust from where it was formed and the temporal spirit returns to the Holy Father who gave it temporally.

The mark of Cain and all who do not receive a new born again spirit that will never die is as in "mark My Word" What he says did come to pass . All of Cain's fears came to pass he did suffer as a restless wander having no sabbath rest that is part of salvation.

Buy spiritual truth and don't sell it for a cup of soup like Esau who also saw no value in the un-seen things of God, having the mark of natural unconverted man, as a beast of the field 666

And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. Revelation 19:21

 

[UnderGrace]

Geesh...was not aimed at you Grace, but rather the misapplication of CAIN in the above post..........try as people may try.....the MARK is an identification process and IDENTIFIES ALL on the planet with the 1st BEAST and is the NUMBER or MARK signifying HIS NAME............

Thank you for clarifying

 

[garee]

Jesus saith unto her Woman believe me the hour cometh
when ye shall neither in this mountain nor yet in Jerusalem
worship the Father

John 4:21 KJV

But the hour cometh and now is when the true worshippers
shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth for the Father
seeketh such as worship him

John 4: 23 KJV

If at some future date the whole Temple system was to be brought back again why would Christ tell the Samaritan woman
this ?

Amen

The time of reformation came. The government in respect things not seen is restored to the period of before there were Kings where in Israel kings, the time of Judges. No visible temple.(men and woman walked by faith (the unseen eternal.) God had not given over the apostate faithless Jews to that which they should not of. They demanded a king because of the jealousy of the surrounding pagan nation .They refused to have a God not seen ruling over them as King of kings. That period of time we are informed was used as a parable for the time then present. The temple represented the unseen eternal according to the prescription (2 Corinthians 4:18)

When the veil was rent it indicated the reformation had come the temple stones that remined lost their ability to be used as a parable. To build another just shows the abomination of desecration has occurred .Which is having the things seen the temporal stand in the unseen eternal holy place. The hidden glory of God. The place where Christ's faith comes from that he freely gives to us so that we can believe Him not seen

 

[UnderGrace]

hi its me. im writing from the new jerusalem. hows life down there? world ended in ad70 you just missed it.

I am trying to have a serious discussion, you do realize that the prior to the advent of dispensationalism/Darbyism/ScofieldBible and the supposed rebirth of Israel the preterist view was largely held by Christianity.

Futurism is about selling books and making people rich

I would suggest you know the opposite side of a topic prior to ridiculing

 

[Melach]

I am trying to have a serious discussion, you do realize that the prior to the advent of dispensationalism/Darbyism/ScofieldBible and the supposed rebirth of Israel the preterist view was largely held by Christianity.

Futurism is about selling books and making people rich

I would suggest you know the opposite side of a topic prior to ridiculing

i know the opposite side. amillennialists agree with me?

ive read kim riddlebarger he is amill, he believes the new heaven and earth is not here yet. whats your point?

 

[Melach]

UnderGrace are you a full-preterist? i thought you were amill, they all believe new heaven and earth isnt here yet. even catholics dont think that.

its pure heresy to suggest Jesus already returned in 70ad and entered new heaven and earth. because that would mean the resurrection already came and we missed it. thats evil doctrine.

i apologize for my joke, but i have to say that i cant take the full-preterist seriously because its just so unbiblical and unrealistic. i find it evil and no church believes it so its a lone ranger doctrine.

 

[garee]

Geesh...was not aimed at you Grace, but rather the misapplication of CAIN in the above post..........try as people may try.....the MARK is an identification process and IDENTIFIES ALL on the planet with the 1st BEAST and is the NUMBER or MARK signifying HIS NAME............

Yes the number of natural unconverted man, dead in his trespasses and sins without a living hope and a living God in this world as a beast of the field is 666. They refuse to buy the spiritual truth of the gospel as did Cain when he murdered his brother Abel .Showing us the father of lies is a murder from the beginning killing the misperceived competition as in out of sight out of mind (no faith needed to believe God seeing no value in the things of God not seen )

Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

666 the number of the many antichrists under the influence of the spirit of the antichrist the spirit of lies.

Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.

 

[dcontroversal]

I am trying to have a serious discussion, you do realize that the prior to the advent of dispensationalism/Darbyism/ScofieldBible and the supposed rebirth of Israel the preterist view was largely held by Christianity.

Futurism is about selling books and making people rich

I would suggest you know the opposite side of a topic prior to ridiculing

Sounds like your mind is made up already.........and I would argue with the bolded.......everyone I know that believes the end of the age is coming has not gotten rich by selling books and believes what they believe based upon centuries of study when collectively combined......

 

[Melach]

Sounds like your mind is made up already.........and I would argue with the bolded.......everyone I know that believes the end of the age is coming has not gotten rich by selling books and believes what they believe based upon centuries of study when collectively combined......

i know you have quite credentials but i dont know if you read a lot of church fathers? maybe you dont care about that.

but i just want to say that if you read them before augustine you dont see anybody who is decidedly amill. but only clear premill. augustine was also premill in the beginning but then he switched because he said it was carnal

i really dont like augustine i dont know if he was saved but he bringed a lot of bad doctrine popular. he bringed doomed to the womb and turned prophecy on its head. saying it goes more positive than negative which is what bible says

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes the number of natural unconverted man, dead in his trespasses and sins without a living hope and a living God in this world as a beast of the field is 666. They refuse to buy the spiritual truth of the gospel as did Cain when he murdered his brother Abel .Showing us the father of lies is a murder from the beginning killing the misperceived competition as in out of sight out of mind (no faith needed to believe God seeing no value in the things of God not seen )

Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

666 the number of the many antichrists under the influence of the spirit of the antichrist the spirit of lies.

Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.

The number of "A" man singular....NOT MEN
The number of "THE" beast <--definite article not A beast
The number of "HIS" name <--personal pronoun
The NAME of "THE" beast <---definite article and a PARTICULAR NAME
Had "THE" MARK <---definite article

NEXT............

 

[dcontroversal]

i know you have quite credentials but i dont know if you read a lot of church fathers? maybe you dont care about that.

but i just want to say that if you read them before augustine you dont see anybody who is decidedly amill. but only clear premill. augustine was also premill in the beginning but then he switched because he said it was carnal

i really dont like augustine i dont know if he was saved but he bringed a lot of bad doctrine popular. he bringed doomed to the womb and turned prophecy on its head. saying it goes more positive than negative which is what bible says

I really do not care what the church "fathers" believed and or taught.....the bible is my rule of faith and practice............and I thoroughly studied church history in Seminary........too many prophecies and events that have not taken place and for sure the word Parousia = BODY PRESENCE of Christ....He will sit on the throne of his father DAVID and rule with a rod of iron.....that is not happening nor has it happened as of yet....

 

[UnderGrace]

[/QUOTE]

Sounds like your mind is made up already.........and I would argue with the bolded.......everyone I know that believes the end of the age is coming has not gotten rich by selling books and believes what they believe based upon centuries of study when collectively combined......

My mind is not made up on all things....however, I do know Hal Lindsay did get much incredibly wrong and he has had a profound influence and his books made him a lot of money, which is fine for him and I am fine with making money, however it does not mean that I need to be gullible (like I was) and believe people without doing a thorough examination of the scriptures and the historical record

And your point is true, there are many who believe in a futurist approach based on study apart from the more sensationalized books which is the way it should be.

 

[UnderGrace]

UnderGrace are you a full-preterist? i thought you were amill, they all believe new heaven and earth isnt here yet. even catholics dont think that.

its pure heresy to suggest Jesus already returned in 70ad and entered new heaven and earth. because that would mean the resurrection already came and we missed it. thats evil doctrine.

i apologize for my joke, but i have to say that i cant take the full-preterist seriously because its just so unbiblical and unrealistic. i find it evil and no church believes it so its a lone ranger doctrine.

I am studying it out...stick around this could be a long thread.

 

[UnderGrace]

UnderGrace are you a full-preterist? i thought you were amill, they all believe new heaven and earth isnt here yet. even catholics dont think that.

its pure heresy to suggest Jesus already returned in 70ad and entered new heaven and earth. because that would mean the resurrection already came and we missed it. thats evil doctrine.

i apologize for my joke, but i have to say that i cant take the full-preterist seriously because its just so unbiblical and unrealistic. i find it evil and no church believes it so its a lone ranger doctrine.

Well I do not mind jokes at all typically, but being a contentious topic I worry it will become personal attacks which really goes no where.

 

[Melach]

I am studying it out...stick around this could be a long thread.

i hope you will see it to be false. even apostle's creed is after 70ad and its still saying Jesus returns to judge quick and dead

remember that its evil to say resurrection already happened. thats what st. paul warned hymeneus of?

 

[UnderGrace]

UnderGrace are you a full-preterist? i thought you were amill, they all believe new heaven and earth isnt here yet. even catholics dont think that.

its pure heresy to suggest Jesus already returned in 70ad and entered new heaven and earth. because that would mean the resurrection already came and we missed it. thats evil doctrine.

i apologize for my joke, but i have to say that i cant take the full-preterist seriously because its just so unbiblical and unrealistic. i find it evil and no church believes it so its a lone ranger doctrine.

I am not even aware of what you are referring to with regards to the resurrection.

I believe there is a hyper preterist doctrine, I am looking at the Reformed view prior to the advent of the doctrine of dispensations.

 

[Journeyman]

This comment proves one thing for sure....You have no idea what the word translated coming means....try looking it up and actually open your eyes....

Parousia <-----BODY PRESENCE

I know what parousia means. Try looking up what the body of Christ is and open your eyes.

 

[Melach]

I am not even aware of what you are referring to with regards to the resurrection.

I believe there is a hyper preterist doctrine, I am looking at the Reformed view prior to the advent of the doctrine of dispensations.

okay so its partial preterism? resurrection is still future? thats ok

here is what i said about:

2Ti 2:18 who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some.

 

[garee]

The number of "A" man singular....NOT MEN
The number of "THE" beast <--definite article not A beast
The number of "HIS" name <--personal pronoun
The NAME of "THE" beast <---definite article and a PARTICULAR NAME
Had "THE" MARK <---definite article

NEXT............

Yes, the number of a man, any man, all unconverted men that have no faith and neither any desire to buy the truth by believing God.

The beast is mankind they were made from the dust of the field. Satan has no DNA as a corrupted rudiment of this world. He is a lying spirit and needs DNA the temporal things seen in order to draw men away from the gospel of faith (the unseen thing of God).He used Cain as a anti-christ to kill the spreading of gospel. God raised up another in whom he also had favor as grace .

 

[UnderGrace]

okay so its partial preterism? resurrection is still future? thats ok

here is what i said about:

2Ti 2:18 who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some.

Orthodox Preterism

My main concern is with regards to the state of Israel (present day, modern) regarded as fulfillment of biblical prophecy. I am thinking that all promises were fulfilled in Christ.