Abusing Religious Authority or The Narcissist and God

[TheNarrowPath]

Ive been here two weeks and it wasnt long before I noticed threads where members were fighting each other. They werent just debating or discussing, I was seeing personal insults that didnt look like should be in a Christian site. I understand this is the internet and there will be people who are very passionate to the point where they become keyboard warriors but for new people coming in looking for Christian fellowship etc it does not look good. On the subject of narcissism Im on the fence because showing narcissistic behaviours does not mean you are a narcissist. I do believe some people are narcissists but others have been labelled incorrectly.
ETA Id just pray for them off site and really not engage with them on site once you see a pattern emerging.

 

[Polar]

Ive been here two weeks and it wasnt long before I noticed threads where members were fighting each other. They werent just debating or discussing, I was seeing personal insults that didnt look like should be in a Christian site. I understand this is the internet and there will be people who are very passionate to the point where they become keyboard warriors but for new people coming in looking for Christian fellowship etc it does not look good. On the subject of narcissism Im on the fence because showing narcissistic behaviours does not mean you are a narcissist. I do believe some people are narcissists but others have been labelled incorrectly.
ETA Id just pray for them off site and really not engage with them on site once you see a pattern emerging.

Right. I'm aware that some people act narcissist to a point and we have all probably engaged in self centered behavior but not terminally.

Again, this is simply a general discussion and my aim was/hopefully still is, to discuss OUR behavior to those who act in that manner consistently and without any indication they believe they are doing anything wrong. The true narcissist does not have a moral compass nor do they believe they are guilty of anything. Behavior modification is something that the rest of us need. Never them.

Fighting in the threads does not mean narcissistic behavior; although I agree it makes for a pretty bad atmosphere. The response to a person who twists what you say or just dismisses your POV or calls names is hurt, anger and a desire to set the record straight. This, as you pointed out, is a forum. It's not a hill to die one, but human nature is defensive and we all want to be heard for what we actually think and say and not how someone misrepresents us.

Frankly, disengaging is wise behavior as you say. Praying, regarding the behavior in question, I do also. I don't think we will ever be free of some personality types here or elsewhere, but it is wise to recognize what we are looking at and maintain our own composure.

 

[Polar]

I have an example myself (way more than one,) but this is a standard behavior of how a narcissist may act. A basically newly wed couple were having some problems and the man said that they should go for counselling. Oh that's good someone might say...but hang on! He then proceeds to explain to the unsuspecting wife that he believes she has deep seated anger issues that she is not aware of and they should bring that up.

So off they go to their Pastor and his wife and before you can say 'hill of beans', it is the wife who states she believes she has deep seated anger issues and the husband agrees and 'wants the best for her' So everybody prays, but the Pastor is confused because he has known the wife for some time and this does not seem like something she has a problem with.

Long story short, as they say, turns out the husband had explosive anger issues, physically assaulted his wife and after some time berated the Pastor as well since the Pastor did not accept the explanation of the wife having anger issues...deep seated or otherwise.

And this was the dude's second wife! (she has a similar tale) This is gaslighting. It occurs when the narcissist creates situations wherein the person he/she is fooling, convinces the person it is actually them that has the problem(s). This is best done with people who do not know the narcissist, who can act like the best person at times and certainly in the beginning of a relationship, and thereby, fool those not familiar, that they only have the best intentions and just want to (cough cough) help.

It can take years to undo the harm caused by such a person.

 

[Bluesproverb]

We all, to whatever degree, believe that our view of what Scripture teaches is the correct view.

Some may be right, others potentially deluded, but I don't think tagging people with names like narcissist etc is Christian. We aren't licensed psychologists with an indepth study of the person/ people in question.

Amen!

That said, often online I just get the feeling of the community being a haunt for every evil thing, and not necessarily Christian because of some of this negative behavior.

I honestly don't know how to appropriately address some people as a result... I guess learning how to have actual discussion with these certain personality types would be great, but I haven't learned how yet.

By the way, I am running a high fever and am a bit on the delirious side so forgive my rambling. I have come down fairly hard with COVID for the first time.

I hope you recover in short order. Keep yourself hydrated.

Great post btw.
Often enough, once is too often I think, people enter Christians forums with the full intention of causing chaos by abrogating scripture.

The actual Christians will make different approaches in response. Some to correct what they first presume to be innocent error. After awhile when the dark purpose of those posters becomes apparent the response then varies.
Some leave the trolling devil alone. Others continue to correct falsehood for the sake of those who may not know scripture that well and so as not to let willful falsehood mislead sincere minds.
Trolling devil's prefer to be let to work chaos unrebuffed. They're really going to be surprised at their judgement.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Well, what you seem to be describing is a homosexual who wanted to stay in the closet and used an innocent person as their closet.

No, I do not think for one moment that man was a believer. This type of thing goes on every day in this world.

I really just wanted to discuss, if possible, how we should respond to someone who seems abusive and does not really want to discuss so much as to force others to accept what they believe to be true.

In that sense, who is really the best representative of Christ? Personally, I believe that to be Jesus Himself. I think wisdom might dictate our behavior and the more sensitive among us, should probably just not engage.

What would you do if you don't mind me asking?

we all have read the same Scriptures and many times we don't see the same interpretation as others do. yes, there are times it is a difference between growth in God how a Scripture becomes understood. but that clearly is not what you are asking or making example of. i have seen what you are talking about on this forum. i have read what the thread title is and the original post that clarifies the intent of the discussion. and many many times nothing from the Wall of Scripture being posted has anything to do with the topic at hand. this could mean they don't really understand what is being asked. it could mean they have a group of Scripture for every topic and they just copy/paste it like it is thus saith God.

but you are distinctively wanting to point out the attitude, the dismissiveness when they are proven wrong, the refusal to accept rebuttal, and the possibility of discussing this in a manner where both sides are heard and maybe we can find the truth in between. by all means, it does appear narcissistic. i am right and you are wrong and i won't hear another word from you because you're too ignorant to pin the tail on the donkey even when not blindfolded.

doctrines and denominational Churches can be the same way towards one another. you are Methodist and i am whatever and that means you are wrong 100% of the time. preachers are guilty of standing behind pulpits and instead of preaching Jesus end up preaching why the Church down the road is Satan's headquarters. many people are brain washed in their denominational doctrines even when it's a possibility it could be wrong.

so i think, i don't know for certain, i can only assume here, but there's many factors here per each single member of this forum. but the unwillingness to debate and i am right and you are stupid is Satanic. personally, i learn every time i read a new thread. i get a different view of Scripture i was never seeing before. it might be right or might be wrong, but it challenges how i view that same Scripture and i am here to sharpen steel.

ultimately, i have no doubts you are correct in your assessments. i also have no doubts there's many other factors outside of behaviorism. and i believe Pride is a major factor among many. i have my own issues and have been learning to deal with them. but to those who can never be wrong, you've hit the nail square on the head!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Are people aware that the abusive Pastor, elder and so on, are often narcissistic? If you are faced with an unreasonable person who dictates the terms of your own life to you, or go to a church where the 'pastor' lays down the law and everyone must listen to that one person because 'God put them in charge', you are being spiritually and emotionally abused.

A few things to take note of how in a person so self-engaged they have no room for anyone else:

An inability to be open and honest but expect that from others
Distain towards others feelings, opinions or achievements
Cannot admit mistakes, with a strong need to be in control

Those things are usually obvious and a simple overview of someone who makes you feel powerless, hopeless and wondering if it's you or 'them'

And again, just wanting to discuss how we deal with this type of thing because people like that are found in church, at work, in school, in friendships, marriage and yes, here too.

Amen!
a preacher on a power trip feeding their narcissistic tendencies happens every time many Church doors are open!

 

[Polar]

but you are distinctively wanting to point out the attitude, the dismissiveness when they are proven wrong, the refusal to accept rebuttal, and the possibility of discussing this in a manner where both sides are heard and maybe we can find the truth in between. by all means, it does appear narcissistic. i am right and you are wrong and i won't hear another word from you because you're too ignorant to pin the tail on the donkey even when not blindfolded.

Pretty succinct there. Not saying the person is a narcissist though. I think some people are fearful of letting go of long held beliefs and think somehow salvation is in question if they question. But there may be some narcissists renting rooms here

 

[Polar]

ultimately, i have no doubts you are correct in your assessments. i also have no doubts there's many other factors outside of behaviorism. and i believe Pride is a major factor among many. i have my own issues and have been learning to deal with them. but to those who can never be wrong, you've hit the nail square on the head!

Even long time Christians can let go of things they have learned in the belief that 'oh boy this is a Christian forum and its going to be great etc' It's not like the New Testament didn't warn us though.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Pretty succinct there. Not saying the person is a narcissist though. I think some people are fearful of letting go of long held beliefs and think somehow salvation is in question if they question. But there may be some narcissists renting rooms here

Agreed!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Even long time Christians can let go of things they have learned in the belief that 'oh boy this is a Christian forum and its going to be great etc' It's not like the New Testament didn't warn us though.

Amen!

 

[Polar]

I have an expression I like to use:

Discernment without discretion is not a gift.

In other words, if we become aware we are being gaslighted or have been put on a runaway train, best not to confront the person head on as they are the expert in camo. From where I sit, prayer is the best way to deal with the craziness. In a forum, we can just 'walk away' and pray or do not at all engage with personal comments. After all, are you the topic of the thread?

Of course not! So do not let someone make you the topic of the thread.

 

[Polar]

going to be MIA till next week...so have a good rest of the week end people

 

[JohnDB]

The narcissist cannot admit error or responsibility....blame shifting is the usual route. "You made me so angry I couldn't control myself "

The narcissist can't admit error or even use self depreciating humor.

The narcissist is always out in front of the line for leadership roles. They want the glamor but never the responsibility. If they do have to actually do something they make an entire mountain range out of the molehill of their contribution. It really doesn't matter what they do or you do....they have always outworked you and your contribution was so miniscule by comparison to theirs.

The narcissist keeps huge amounts of secrets. This is part of a controlling friendships. Everyone's relationship with each other is controlled by the narcissist at the center. The narcissist tries to control the flow of information and requires everyone to come to them for it. They will have "secret" meetings so they can flash out "secret bits" in front of others....as if their relationship is of a higher priority than yours. (Like Narc. mother & daughter-in-law keeping a secret from husband/Son.)

It's a very twisted life....

 

[JohnDB]

There's a video I showed earlier in another thread.

The long time senior pastor had been caught and was about to get outed for seducing and having sexual relationships with underage girls.
The girls grew up and were telling how they were sexually abused by him.
One of these girls came out in front of the congregation to confront him.

And the Pastor acted disgusted and as if it was all her fault....what she did was egregious while his role was so minor.

And the part that disgusted me and horrified me at the same time was the congregation's support of the pedophile.

 

[Bluesproverb]

OP mission accomplished.

 

[Polar]

Everything simply, yet profoundly, is up to the individual. To react or act or to continue as always or, hopefully and prayerfully, change for the better.

We are each singularly accountable for our actions and our words.

Thank you

 

[Shepherd]

I was in a church which some have called a "cult". The topic of "spiritual authority" was regularly taught. I've been slandered behind my back, even been physically struck, by a pastor. You could not go to him with any disagreement on anything without threat of having your name out in a sermon on it, unless you were another of his preacher buddies. He was condescending, and used his power to manipulate others. We were told never to ask his wife to do anything( I have yet to figure out why), yet he would go to mine and ask with no problem. There were occasional veiled threats about "touch not God's anointed" to keep us in fear of disagreeing with or opposing him in any way. We were told that, if we left, we would "lose our families". We also were preached to about being "worldly", which is important for sure, but all the while some pastors/leaders like this are practicing "worldliness" themselves by being controlling. Jesus said:

25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.

26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;

27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:

28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

 

[Dirtman]

Know it alls dont bother me, neither do narcissists. They are easy to deal with. Its those who twist your words and attempt to make it as if you promoted or accused when you did not. How can anyone even themselves trust what they say about scripture when they cant even hold a written conversation without twisting words?

 

[Polar]

Know it alls dont bother me, neither do narcissists. They are easy to deal with. Its those who twist your words and attempt to make it as if you promoted or accused when you did not. How can anyone even themselves trust what they say about scripture when they cant even hold a written conversation without twisting words?

Well what the hee haw do you think narcissists are doing besides twisting words and gaslighting? You just described some of the behavior of the classic narcissist.

smh

 

[Polar]

I was in a church which some have called a "cult". The topic of "spiritual authority" was regularly taught. I've been slandered behind my back, even been physically struck, by a pastor. You could not go to him with any disagreement on anything without threat of having your name out in a sermon on it, unless you were another of his preacher buddies. He was condescending, and used his power to manipulate others. We were told never to ask his wife to do anything( I have yet to figure out why), yet he would go to mine and ask with no problem. There were occasional veiled threats about "touch not God's anointed" to keep us in fear of disagreeing with or opposing him in any way. We were told that, if we left, we would "lose our families". We also were preached to about being "worldly", which is important for sure, but all the while some pastors/leaders like this are practicing "worldliness" themselves by being controlling. Jesus said:

25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.

26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;

27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:

28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Did we go to the same church?

I could write a book but this stuff is sadly so much more common than many would suppose.

I've been in other churches where it was not quite that bad, but the 'Pastor' was still the overlord and the rest of us were living in his kingdom. And one man being the pastor is not even a biblical example.