Abusing Religious Authority or The Narcissist and God

[Polar]

Polar Express: Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it. Proverbs 4:23 How is the heart represented in scripture? In scripture, you will find that the heart represents your mind, your will and emotions. For example, Jesus says in Matthew: Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, Why are you thinking evil things in your hearts? Matthew 9:4. Obviously we think with our minds (we are told to renew our minds with scripture, in other words agree with what the word says)

Caleb: I love Proverbs 4:23. The rest of what you wrote is a little off. (Don't worry. We all only know in part.) You have a conscious, a subconscious, and an unconscious. All three of them think, but they all think in totally different ways. When people say the word 'think', 99% of the time, they are talking about 'thoughts of the heart'. However, the Bible focuses on 'the thoughts of the heart', because "out of it are the issues of life". Your heart is where your subconscious thoughts are; it doesn't think with words like your conscious mind. Rather, it 'thinks' with a.) attitudes, b.) beliefs, c.) biases, prejudices, preferences, and d.) opinions. No words. Because your heart is your person or character-- the real you-- the Bible says little about 'thoughts of the mind' because "out of [the heart] are the issues of life". Because babies can't use words, they can't think in their conscious mind. They do their 'thinking' in their hearts (subconscious) which is where a person's attitudes, beliefs, biases (and prejudices and preferences), and opinions lie. You need language to think consciously; but your subconscious doesn't need language to think as it thinks in a different type of language. (The unconscious is a whole other world.)

Polar Express: ok, well I don't suppose it will hurt any if I post some ways to deal with a narcissist in a biblical manner.

Caleb: Please do. Too many christians are unnecessarily vulnerable.

smh

I am not writing a thesis here. I am in the process of adding a little more. It's not helpful when you say things like 'I am a little off' when you have ZERO idea of how much I might really know. I am trying to keep it simple. You know? the KISS method. keep it simple stupid. (joke)

You seem eager to display superior knowledge here when we are 5 pages in. Gee. Where have you been

 

[SonsOfCaleb]

This does not make sense. I am thankful when people learn better behavior and understand that arguing is never the answer even if the other person is not a narcissist.

Let's clarify. I post what I would consider a helpful way to deal with difficult people according to scripture and you ignore that and become accusatory.

Not helpful so excuse me if I do not respond to your offer to discuss more narcissist behavior from your expert, when I am trying to discuss how we can help ourselves in dealing with the narcissists around us.

Oof. The only thing worse than a masculinized woman is a feminized man. I've met a lot of men like you who were unfortunate enough to be married. Their wives were not faithful to them. You can have your thread back. Goodbye.

 

[Polar]

Oof. The only thing worse than a masculinized woman is a feminized man. I've met a lot of men like you who were unfortunate enough to be married. Their wives were not faithful to them. You can have your thread back. Goodbye.

Obviously one of those people who shoot first and ask questions later.

Moving on....

 

[Polar]

So, we learn that boundaries can be set up to disallow the person who wants to run your life for you limited access and that is actually a biblical imperative. It is positive to focus on our relationship with the Lord without allowing others to tell you how that should look. We do not always have to agree, especially when we know better. Always being agreeable is not actually the Christian perspective.

Keep your own values intact. For example, some people believe they are authoritative because they have an attitude that people back away from. It's not authority. It's simple bullying and most people do not care to engage. But that was not at all about the last poster.

So yeah, keep your own values intact. You do not have to engage with a person who wants to force their own beliefs upon you and way too often that type of person, if a believer, will say something like 'God told me' or God told me to tell you. Many people have been led in the wrong direction and joined cults or even married the wrong person when accepting those words. YOU should have the final say in your own decisions. It is between you and the Lord and not you and mini Moses.

More often than not, a person who is used to just running over others, will become hostile when you do not accept their 'advice'. Entire churches are run that way. The biblical model is not one person running the operation, but rather elders who are answerable to each other and have impeccable personal lives. But no, I am not trying to change how churches are run, just trying to provide choices for some who feel their backs are up against a wall.

A Pastor does not have authority over another man's wife and cannot tell you who you should marry or how many children you should have. Again, quite a bit of damage can be done when a person turns over their own decision making process to others when we have the ability to walk in the light of scripture, renew our minds, and turn our lives over to our Savior rather than another person.

 

[awelight]

And since the world has remained fallen since the Fall, it means all of humanity. So why do you wish to pervert the Gospel?

If you don't understand the distinctions between the Eternal and the Temporal, you will never understand the point I am making.

But put simply. God's plan is Eternal. He does what He does, out of His Eternal Love and not for it's present Temporal state. Therefore, God: "..loved the world...", going back to before the world was founded. Before the Fall. He loved His Eternal Plan of Creation and Redemption both for the Elect and the restoration of this world. He loved those He chose in Christ before the foundation of the world because they were in His Eternal Plan. He chose mercy and compassion upon those who were in His Eternal Plan. The Father conceived the Plan, the Son agreed to carry it out, the Holy Spirit agreed to be it's minister. Therefore He loves the Elect - as they will be in the completed Plan, not as they are today but what they will become. He can bestow His love on them today because, in His Eternal mind, they are what they will become. Temporally, sinners saved by Grace - Eternally, Saints.

You don't think the name Saints (Holy ones of God), is given to us NOW because we are truly holy in our actions. It is proclaimed in the Scriptures because God sees us as fully Redeemed and not as sinners. This is not because God is unknowing of our sins but because, God can look upon us as if our Redemption is already in Glory. This is why Paul wrote in Romans 8:30, in the past tense. (Predestined, Called, Justified and Glorified). It is the reason why, the Book of Life or Book of the Lamb, is before the foundation of the world. It is the reason why, the Lamb of God is said to be "slain" before the foundation of the world. God is Eternal, there is no time with Him. He resides in the ever-present NOW. Therefore, what God Planned from all Eternity, will take place and cannot be altered or stopped.

 

[awelight]

You are wasting your efforts. This one argues calvinism in every thread whether or not that is the topic

calvin's Cliff notes for all

This one is forced to argue God's Sovereignty and His Elective Grace because it is under fire from all directions. Just as it has been for Centuries and will be to the end of time.

I wish I could just stick to the threads topic but sooner or later someone says something about Salvation and how they believe it works and there I then must go. There is no greater Doctrine in the Scriptures, except Theology and Christology.

 

[Nehemiah6]

But put simply. God's plan is Eternal. He does what He does, out of His Eternal Love and not for it's present Temporal state. Therefore, God: "..loved the world...", going back to before the world was founded.

You are not only contradicting Christ, but you are manufacturing your own theology. Even John Calvin could not dispute what was written in John chapter 3. Check out his commentary. But then he reversed his position and contradicted himself and Christ in his Institutes.

 

[awelight]

You are not only contradicting Christ, but you are manufacturing your own theology. Even John Calvin could not dispute what was written in John chapter 3. Check out his commentary. But then he reversed his position and contradicted himself and Christ in his Institutes.

I could care less, about what John Calvin had to say about this verse. After all, John Calvin was an A-millennialist and he and I would never get along on that view.

But back to my point. Do you not agree, that the God of the Bible is Eternal? Does not Scripture teach, that God knowing that Adam would Fall, created an Eternal Plan for Redemption, even before the world was founded or Adam was created?

Can anything - I mean anything - alter God? Is He not totally Sovereign? Does not Scripture teach, His will, will be done in all things?

Therefore, can you not see, that what was Planned in Eternity, cannot be thwarted by Satin or anyone or thing that is temporal? The Temporal existence cannot override the Eternal reality. That is why - God can know, without any uncertainty, how things will END from the BEGINNING. Not because He saw it but because He Planned it and He knows, that nothing in the created Universe or beyond, can change what is one with Him in His mind.

This is not a Calvinistic Doctrine. This is the God we shall all answer too. Sovereign and Supreme, there is no other.

I am not trying to be argumentative, really. I am just trying to help. Go beyond the Temporal knowledge and look into Eternity. Eternity, is not just a longtime, it is a state of being.

I wish you the best.

 

[Polar]

This one is forced to argue God's Sovereignty and His Elective Grace because it is under fire from all directions. Just as it has been for Centuries and will be to the end of time.

I wish I could just stick to the threads topic but sooner or later someone says something about Salvation and how they believe it works and there I then must go. There is no greater Doctrine in the Scriptures, except Theology and Christology.

And yet if some poor beggar off the streets in Calcutta had faith to believe in Christ he would be saved without your permission and apart from reformed theology.

Yup. Just the blood of Christ washing away all his sins would be acceptable to the Father

We are known by our fruits. That would mean becoming more like Jesus. That occurs through the Holy Spirit who indwells believers. There are many so called theologians who will never see what they say they know so much about

 

[awelight]

And yet if some poor beggar off the streets in Calcutta had faith to believe in Christ he would be saved without your permission and apart from reformed theology.

Yup. Just the blood of Christ washing away all his sins would be acceptable to the Father

We are known by our fruits. That would mean becoming more like Jesus. That occurs through the Holy Spirit who indwells believers. There are many so called theologians who will never see what they say they know so much about

Yes indeed. If that poor beggar on the streets of Calcutta, indeed had faith to believe - then it would be proof that he was born of the Spirit. (John 3:3-10). His faith having been given to him in the Spirit of Regeneration.

Eph_2:8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

No Regeneration - no God given faith. In this case, his faith would be natural faith and unable to save. Just like the seed that fell on unprepared soil - his belief would last a short season and then whither away.

Luke 8:6 And other fell on the rock; and as soon as it grew, it withered away, because it had no moisture.
Luke 8:7 And other fell amidst the thorns; and the thorns grew with it, and choked it.
Luke 8:8 And other fell into the good ground, and grew, and brought forth fruit a hundredfold. As he said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

What is this "...good ground..." - It is the one who has been Regenerated, Regeneration, prepares "the ground" to be seeded and the "seed" is the Word of God.

If you find this objectionable... then pray tale, what do you see in these Words of Scripture?