50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord
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You can TRY and rearrange Rev. and put that large crowd into chapter 19 with His coming, but you will be proven wrong. It is where John put it: PRETRIB.
Question, since you THINK you know: WHERE does the "trib" start in Revelation.
WHERE is the rapture in Revelation?
Just in 1 Thes 4 & 5, tell us WHEN Paul says HIS rapture /gathering will take place?
Question, since you THINK you know: WHERE does the "trib" start in Revelation.
WHERE is the rapture in Revelation?
Just in 1 Thes 4 & 5, tell us WHEN Paul says HIS rapture /gathering will take place?
Sorry not buying it. It is certainly much more simple than that.
Rev 4:1
After these (meta tauta) things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, “Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this (dei ginomai meta tauta).”
After what things? After the Church age.......the history of which was laid out in chapters 2 and 3.
Chapter 4 is all about turning the page to a new era of redemptive history, now that the newly raptured Church has been taken to heaven, who break out in a chorus of praise to God in the throne room of God...! The 70th week of Daniel will initiate in chapter 5....which will culminate in the promised final redemption of Israel...!
Rev 4:1
After these (meta tauta) things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, “Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this (dei ginomai meta tauta).”
After what things? After the Church age.......the history of which was laid out in chapters 2 and 3.
Chapter 4 is all about turning the page to a new era of redemptive history, now that the newly raptured Church has been taken to heaven, who break out in a chorus of praise to God in the throne room of God...! The 70th week of Daniel will initiate in chapter 5....which will culminate in the promised final redemption of Israel...!
“And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.” Revelation 13:7
“When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.” Revelation 6:9-11
This is the 5th Seal. How is this verse misunderstood by cult rapture theorists?
John is literally telling you, Christians are being killed for their testimony of Christ and that MORE would be killed, a certain number, until completion.
This is DURING the tribulation people, at the opening of the 5th Seal. Christians are dying during the tribulation as Revelation 6 vividly and literally points out. There is no symbolism here.
The 5th Seal happens after the 2nd Seal – in order. Jesus our Lord is not opening the 5th Seal first and then going back to the 2nd Seal. You cannot place these events where you wish for to do so is foolish and manipulating the word of God!
“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.” Revelation 20:4
Yes my brothers and sisters in Christ, these are Christians who are beheaded for the glorious name of Christ for rejecting the beast! These are not part of the 144,000 as Elohim protects them during the latter half of the 1290 days and they do not die. Not only that, they have not been Sealed yet by the host of heaven when the 5th Seal is opened! This is the end of chapter 6.
Now when we go to chapter 7 in consecutive order, one after the other, what do we find?
“And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, ‘Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.’ And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.” Revelation 7:1-4
Now the 144,000 are about to be sealed after the Six Seals have been opened. Chapter 7 has to do with the sealing of the 144,000 and the "rapture" of the Christians from the planet before the great wrath of God, YOM YHWH, is poured out on the earth.
“After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honor, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. Rev 7:9-12
AFTER WHAT? AFTER THE 6TH SEAL.
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; Rev 6:12
Glory and praise be to our Adonai Jesus and to God our Father who seals us with His Holy Spirit and brings all things unto our understanding. To the Lamb be glory and power and praise forever and ever!
“When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.” Revelation 6:9-11
This is the 5th Seal. How is this verse misunderstood by cult rapture theorists?
John is literally telling you, Christians are being killed for their testimony of Christ and that MORE would be killed, a certain number, until completion.
This is DURING the tribulation people, at the opening of the 5th Seal. Christians are dying during the tribulation as Revelation 6 vividly and literally points out. There is no symbolism here.
The 5th Seal happens after the 2nd Seal – in order. Jesus our Lord is not opening the 5th Seal first and then going back to the 2nd Seal. You cannot place these events where you wish for to do so is foolish and manipulating the word of God!
“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.” Revelation 20:4
Yes my brothers and sisters in Christ, these are Christians who are beheaded for the glorious name of Christ for rejecting the beast! These are not part of the 144,000 as Elohim protects them during the latter half of the 1290 days and they do not die. Not only that, they have not been Sealed yet by the host of heaven when the 5th Seal is opened! This is the end of chapter 6.
Now when we go to chapter 7 in consecutive order, one after the other, what do we find?
“And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, ‘Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.’ And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.” Revelation 7:1-4
Now the 144,000 are about to be sealed after the Six Seals have been opened. Chapter 7 has to do with the sealing of the 144,000 and the "rapture" of the Christians from the planet before the great wrath of God, YOM YHWH, is poured out on the earth.
“After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honor, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. Rev 7:9-12
AFTER WHAT? AFTER THE 6TH SEAL.
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; Rev 6:12
And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Rev 7:14
Glory and praise be to our Adonai Jesus and to God our Father who seals us with His Holy Spirit and brings all things unto our understanding. To the Lamb be glory and power and praise forever and ever!
Uh, no, Jesus didn't come before the flood. lol. But seriously, you are reading way too much into it.
Well, here is where you completely lose your "consistency". Noah wasn't "taken away" before God flooded the earth. Where do you get your material anyway? Noah STAYED on the earth, so if you want to use Jesus' words to relate to a rapture, then Noah STAYED on the earth, as the earth and humanity was being judged, JUST AS living believers STAY ON the earth as humanity is being judged.
As to lot, what did Jesus say that leads one to assume Lot's leaving S & G is somehow relative to a pre-trib rapture?
So what? What does that prove? I guess you "see" Jesus rapturing up believers from the earth. Did you wonder why there was no mention of all the dead saints from heaven that were supposed to accompany Jesus to "the clouds"?
Remember, 1 Thess 4 is supposed to be a PRE-trib rapture passage. And there are both dead and living believers there.
So, explain this other inconsistency.
Well, here is where you completely lose your "consistency". Noah wasn't "taken away" before God flooded the earth. Where do you get your material anyway? Noah STAYED on the earth, so if you want to use Jesus' words to relate to a rapture, then Noah STAYED on the earth, as the earth and humanity was being judged, JUST AS living believers STAY ON the earth as humanity is being judged.
As to lot, what did Jesus say that leads one to assume Lot's leaving S & G is somehow relative to a pre-trib rapture?
So what? What does that prove? I guess you "see" Jesus rapturing up believers from the earth. Did you wonder why there was no mention of all the dead saints from heaven that were supposed to accompany Jesus to "the clouds"?
Remember, 1 Thess 4 is supposed to be a PRE-trib rapture passage. And there are both dead and living believers there.
So, explain this other inconsistency.
Abraham's Bosom is walking hand in hand with one of your BEST FRIEND. That has been a tradition in ISRAEL and ARAB Countrys for 3000 years.
Quote:
Abraham's Bosom Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary
Abraham's Bosom Unique phrase found in a parable of Jesus describing the place where Lazarus went after death (Luke 16:19-31). It is a figurative phrase that appears to have been drawn from a popular belief that the righteous would rest by Abraham's side in the world to come, an opinion described in Jewish literature at the time of Christ. :END QUOTE.
It's only meaning is they are CLOSE FRIENDS, in the mid-east.
There Used to be an expression in about a 100 years ago: BOSOM BUDDIES, that carried the SAME kind of Meaning.
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You are mistaken on your timing. The 5th seal is CHURCH AGE martyrs and they are told they must wait for judgment (the 70th week) UNTIL the final church age martyr. My friend, this is speaking of a pretrib rapture. It will be the rapture that ends the church age and starts the Day of the Lord that is the time of judgment. It will be the rapture that makes the last church age martyr.
I am glad you brought out this great crowd, too large to number. Did you notice they were seen in heaven in chapter 5, and Jesus does not return until chapter 19? They are in heaven PRETRIB.
If you study 1 Thes 5, Paul teaches that the rapture will come just before the Day of the Lord and His wrath. In Revelation that would be just before the 6th seal. It is no mistake that the 6th seal is just before John saw this great crowd in heaven. My friend, that is PRE-trib.
I am glad you brought out this great crowd, too large to number. Did you notice they were seen in heaven in chapter 5, and Jesus does not return until chapter 19? They are in heaven PRETRIB.
If you study 1 Thes 5, Paul teaches that the rapture will come just before the Day of the Lord and His wrath. In Revelation that would be just before the 6th seal. It is no mistake that the 6th seal is just before John saw this great crowd in heaven. My friend, that is PRE-trib.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Thessalonians+5&version=NKJV
5 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.
The "sudden destruction" is the Day of the Lord, YOM YHWH.
There have been many YOM YHWH in history. AD 70 was a YOM YHWH when the Temple was destroyed ending karbanot which Jesus said would happen.
The tanakh speaks of YOM YHWH under many prophets, psalms, and of course our Adonai Jesus has told us the meaning of such and what to look for.
The pre-trib theory is false:
Paul tells you,
3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day (YOM YHWH) should overtake you as a thief.
YOM YHWH occurs AFTER the 6th Seal is opened.
17 For the great day of His wrath (YOM YHWH) has come, and who is able to stand?” Rev 6:17
5 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.
The "sudden destruction" is the Day of the Lord, YOM YHWH.
There have been many YOM YHWH in history. AD 70 was a YOM YHWH when the Temple was destroyed ending karbanot which Jesus said would happen.
The tanakh speaks of YOM YHWH under many prophets, psalms, and of course our Adonai Jesus has told us the meaning of such and what to look for.
The pre-trib theory is false:
Paul tells you,
3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day (YOM YHWH) should overtake you as a thief.
YOM YHWH occurs AFTER the 6th Seal is opened.
17 For the great day of His wrath (YOM YHWH) has come, and who is able to stand?” Rev 6:17
I appreciate your come back reponse. But I still disagree with your conclusion. I came to this understanding, just reading the Scripture, especially Mat 25:13. The solidly puts a Pre-Trib Rapture, as an OPTION, and then once the Antichrist is Makes a Peace Treaty with Israel, that RULES OUT Mid-Trib, and Post-Trib, BECAUSE HIS DAYS ARE NUMBERED. Leaving ONLY the Pre-Trib Option. I get all excited anytime I teach the Pre-Trib Option. I know in my HEART it is TRUE, so I will continue to teach it.
your statement is why the body of Christ cannot adhere to false theory or personal interpretation,
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Peter+1&version=NKJV
2 Peter
16 For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17 For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” 18 And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.
19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
the holy men of God is certified prophets by God Himself, not opinions or anyone who states "I know this to be true in my heart."
That may be fine for you, but this is NOT the will of God for His people in whom He paid for with His blood.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Peter+1&version=NKJV
2 Peter
16 For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17 For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” 18 And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.
19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
the holy men of God is certified prophets by God Himself, not opinions or anyone who states "I know this to be true in my heart."
That may be fine for you, but this is NOT the will of God for His people in whom He paid for with His blood.
No, "I've got" quite a bit more.
Here is the problem with pre-trib as I see it.
1. The Bible does not teach it.
2. Pre-tribbers interpret certain passages to fit with pre-trib.
3. There are passages like I Thessalonians 1, for example, that do not fit pre-trib.
4. Other scenarios fit better.
So why would I accept pre-trib interpretations of scripture?
Can you show me a passage that shows a rapture taking place before the tribulation? Why is the coming of Christ referred to as if it were one event in scripture, but pre-tribbers have some of the verses about it applying to the pre-trib rapture and some applying to the end. The Bible refers to the parousia/coming of Christ. It does not refer to two more of them after the ascension.
Here is the problem with pre-trib as I see it.
1. The Bible does not teach it.
2. Pre-tribbers interpret certain passages to fit with pre-trib.
3. There are passages like I Thessalonians 1, for example, that do not fit pre-trib.
4. Other scenarios fit better.
So why would I accept pre-trib interpretations of scripture?
Can you show me a passage that shows a rapture taking place before the tribulation? Why is the coming of Christ referred to as if it were one event in scripture, but pre-tribbers have some of the verses about it applying to the pre-trib rapture and some applying to the end. The Bible refers to the parousia/coming of Christ. It does not refer to two more of them after the ascension.
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