BINGO!!!!! "Works'" are the PRODUCT of being Born Again, and not the CAUSE thereof.
Works and Salvation
- Thread starter Soyeong
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What claim have I made?
There are some claims I'm going to make, but I was asking questions to understand your position before doing so.
Another question if you are inclined to answer: John the Baptist said Jesus would baptize with fire and the Spirit. What is the baptism of the Spirit John is speaking about?
What do you mean by "an inward operation of the Spirit" and "an outward operation of the Spirit"?
John is talking about two baptisms. Baptism with the Spirit; and baptism with fire.
Chuckle!! Since the thing that MAKES a person a Christian is the Holy Spirit indwelling them, it's an INWARD thing, obviously.
You see throughout the book of Acts the Spirit falling on believers, and that this manifestation of the Spirit is noticed by those in attendance. This is an outward manifestation of the Spirit.
The baptism that the Spirit performs to place a believer into Christ is an inward work that is unobservable.
So what is characteristic of the baptism with the Spirit and who administers it?
Baptism with fire and the Holy Spirit occurred on the day of Pentecost.
Notable is the fact that the day of Pentecost took place after Jesus rose.
The apostles believed in Jesus before that day of Pentecost.
This is a common misunderstanding. Seals are placed on the outside of letters, and authenticate what is inside.
If the Spirit falling on a believer was an inward manifestation of the Spirit, why are all present aware of it?
Sure. The baptism with the Holy Spirit is the promise of the Father, that Jesus spoke of.
The outward appearance of the Holy Spirit is simultaneously with that inner conviction.
Both occur at the same instant but the outward manifestation is much slower to be
observed.
Everyone saw the outward manifestation of the Spirit immediately. That's the reason Peter said who could forbid the family of Cornelius from being baptized. The same Spirit that fell on the Apostles at Pentecost had fallen on those of Cornelius's household.
Once again, you cannot confess Jesus without hearing the gospel.
You cannot confess Jesus without the Holy Spirit.
No one has the ministries of the Holy Spirit without the Holy Spirit.
No one loves others with the divine love that Jesus had.
You receive the Holy Spirit when you first believe in Jesus after hearing
the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Let's examine your claims.
Peter preaches a sermon the day of Pentecost. In verse 38, he tells some of the hearers to repent and be baptized.
What happened in verse 37 leading up to this?
When the apostles on the day of Pentecost received the Holy Spirit.
Was there a visible authentication of that reception of the Holy Spirit?
Were the apostles sealed in their salvation, confirmed by Jesus on the
day of Pentecost?
That's a complicated question and depends what you mean by having the Holy Spirit.
The reason I began my questions as I did was because I was trying to distinguish between the indwelling of the Spirit referred to in 1 Corinthians 12:13 and the baptism of the Spirit seen in Ephesians 1:13,14.