Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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LW97 said:
What about those who once believed in him and then stopped?
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Did they have FAITH in him? Did they experience Gods true love? Did they know and understand that God is a loving God, and when they trust him, he does what he promises, WHen they do not, they crash and burn?

Or did they just merely believe jesus? (Even demons believe)
 
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LW97 said:
I apologize in case I skipped them. But I was sure that I did reply.
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You did not reply per say, You responded with another passage, Which LEFT the contraidction. You have to solve the contradiction.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
Did they have FAITH in him? Did they experience Gods true love? Did they know and understand that God is a loving God, and when they trust him, he does what he promises, WHen they do not, they crash and burn?

Or did they just merely believe jesus? (Even demons believe)
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Timothy states it is possible to become shipwreck in the faith.
 
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LW97 said:
Are the promises unconditional?
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Did jesus place conditions on them?

Eternal life. Never hunger and thirst, the state of being in christ, and the state of being sealed with the spirit.

Why did he not call it conditional life, if it was conditional on somethign we do or not do

How about the seal of the spirit. Why did he tell us UNTIL the day of redemption. (Unconditional) And NOT tell us or until we fail to do or live up to his standard (condition)
 
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LW97 said:
Does being denied by Jesus not equal facing eternal damnation?
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Is reigning with Jesus eternal life?

You forgot the rest of the couplet

11 For if we died with him,
we will also live with him;
12 if we endure, we will also reign with him;
if we deny him, he will also deny us;
13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful,
for he cannot deny himself.​

You see He is Faithful
 
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UnderGrace said:
Is reigning with Jesus eternal life?

You forgot the rest of the couplet

11 For if we died with him,​
we will also live with him;​
12 if we endure, we will also reign with him;​
if we deny him, he will also deny us;​
13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful,​
for he cannot deny himself.​

You see He is Faithful
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Of course he remains with the saved AND the unsaved when we are not faithful. As long as we are alive we all have a chance.
 
LW97 said:
Timothy states it is possible to become shipwreck in the faith.
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Yep.

But shipwrecked faith does not mean it is lost completley.. Remember, faith of a mustard seed can cause us to move a mountain. Thats not much faith.

And in the same passage you wrote of. It says if we are faithless, he remains faithful he can not deny himself.

You see if he takes back his salvation, He must deny himself
 
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LW97 said:
Of course he remains with the saved AND the unsaved when we are not faithful. As long as we are alive we all have a chance.
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He does not remain with the unsaved? Their is a barrier between God and the unsaved
 
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Peter, who denied Christ three times, also wrote that there will be false teachers who deny the Master who bought them and bring swift destruction on themselves.

It would appear that Peter was differentiating between his denial and theirs. And it is possible that the underlying word for denial in Peter's case is/was different from the one used to describe the fate of those false teachers.
 
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LW97 said:
I do not believe he takes it back. Rather do I believe we can mess it up by our own free will, see Philippians 2:12.
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Why would we do this what does god do that causes us to lose faith? Is he unfaithful?
 
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UnderGrace said:
Our salvation is not gained or based upon our will therefore it cannot be forfieted or lost by an act of our will.
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We definitely cannot merit salvation, but does that mean we cannot lose it? I also can give you 20 dollars as a gift and you can still lose it.
 
LW97 said:
We definitely cannot merit salvation, but does that mean we cannot lose it? I also can give you 20 dollars as a gift and you can still lose it.
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If you can lose it. You must merit it..

I can lose that 20. But it is still mine.

I may not be able to find it, But Gd knows exactly where it is. Thats why we can never leave him.
 
Itll be interesting to see the lambs book of life with all those names written in, then x'd out. Then written back in, then x'd out again, over and over.

Is this notion like being gender fluid? I identify as being saved today, but maybe not tomorrow.
 
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LW97 said:
We definitely cannot merit salvation, but does that mean we cannot lose it? I also can give you 20 dollars as a gift and you can still lose it.
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Hi LW97, there is One who tells us that a true believer will never lose his/her salvation.

John 6:37-40 (excerpt)​
All that the the Father gives Me will come to Me, and .. of all that He has given Me I LOSE NOTHING, but raise it up on the last day.​

Was He wrong somehow?

Thanks!

~Deut
 
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