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Something as personal and emotionally immoderate as a faith in God is can be equally personally and emotionally offended when that faith is challenged. Here's a quote from you, oyster67 from another thread that might help answer your question --
"I would try to avoid getting involved with a Catholic or a Baptist or a Pentecostal or a Mennonite or an Amish or a Mormon or a JW or a Satanist. I would look for Christian if I got in the looking mood
"This suggests that roughly (wild guess) 80 or 90% of the "Christian nation" are not Christian at all. So, eliminating all those people, you could theoretically dispense with denominations entirely and just be brothers and sisters. Give it a go.
I guess I've always been Catholic, but over the years I've questioned a few things and still question a very big part of Catholicism - and that is the concept of Mary's immaculate conception. I just don't really find any justification either through scripture or tradition for her original forgiveness based solely on the merits of Jesus. Just isn't there. I understand it. And I understand why the Church eventually (after a couple hundred years) decided to go with it. I just can't find it. That being said, I do appreciate how most questions and answers are thoroughly meted out through catechism or the progression of thought from so many scholars over two thousand years.
I DO NOT believe that the holy spirit tells one person one thing and tells another something else, but I DO believe that this is how many many denominations are born Denominations develop almost always by rebellion and a faith that "their beliefs" trump all others and completely dismisses roughly two thousand years of scholarly theological thought because something thinks they had an "epiphany".
In 1790 (I think) there was a day in May (I think the 19th) when most of New England from Maine south to New Jersey had a "day of darkness". It was attributed to forrest fires and a thick fog but roosters were crowing, frogs chirping, candles were lit and oh, the souls that were saved that day. Denominations were born including Mother Ann from the "Shakers" in New York who had a horrible marriage resulting in 4 children all of whom died in infancy and oddly enough, the church she founded believed in total celibacy. Can't blame her much, but the "denomination" she founded was based on her interpretation of scripture tainted by her own bad experience.
That's why I trust time. Time for people smarter than me with more insight and more devotion of study to lead, to question and to interpret. Generations of people. Sometimes they're wrong, but TIME has a way of straightening things out. Considering the strength in number of the Catholic Church, I think TIME has endorsed her.
I DO NOT believe that the holy spirit tells one person one thing and tells another something else, but I DO believe that this is how many many denominations are born Denominations develop almost always by rebellion and a faith that "their beliefs" trump all others and completely dismisses roughly two thousand years of scholarly theological thought because something thinks they had an "epiphany".
In 1790 (I think) there was a day in May (I think the 19th) when most of New England from Maine south to New Jersey had a "day of darkness". It was attributed to forrest fires and a thick fog but roosters were crowing, frogs chirping, candles were lit and oh, the souls that were saved that day. Denominations were born including Mother Ann from the "Shakers" in New York who had a horrible marriage resulting in 4 children all of whom died in infancy and oddly enough, the church she founded believed in total celibacy. Can't blame her much, but the "denomination" she founded was based on her interpretation of scripture tainted by her own bad experience.
That's why I trust time. Time for people smarter than me with more insight and more devotion of study to lead, to question and to interpret. Generations of people. Sometimes they're wrong, but TIME has a way of straightening things out. Considering the strength in number of the Catholic Church, I think TIME has endorsed her.
I just don't understand how anyone can call themselves a catholic and then disagree with an Official teaching of the roman catholic church???
You cannot be a catholic and disagree with an official teaching of the catholic church...
A catholic is a person who accepts without question the ""infallible??"" Official doctrines of the roman catholic church. They have ZERO resistance to those doctrines..
The catholic church teaches that Mary was born without sin that she is a co- redemtrix with Jesus, now of course i think that is the height of blasphemy but when i was a former catholic i was under the Authority of the interpretation of scriptures of the roman catholic church and there was no room for any kind of resistance or desertion against official Roman catholic doctrine..
No catholics don't trust the catholic church because they have had more time to study or devotion time.. catholics trust that From Peter to and including the current pope there has been an unbroken line of inspired infallable leaders of Christianity occupying the positon of Pope / Papacy giving the common catholics trustworthy teachings in all things..
No!!! If you are a catholic you cannot believe the catholic church has EVER been wrong.. That would be declaring that the ""unbroken like of God inspired and infallible leaders"" from Peter to today has been Broken and thus the claim of the catholic church to unbroken inspired leadership of all things relation to the religion of God is FALSE...
Jesus has his sheep everywhere as He stated to the disciples that other sheep I have that are not of this fold.... So that tells me there are true followers of a God everywhere. I don't understand the bashing that goes on amongst folks of different denominations. It make no sense to me.
Repentance and salvation are just that and we are all covered by the blood of Jesus. So why bother to argue over the points of different doctrines? A waste of time in my opinion. Our time would be better spent loving each other and helping each other out so the world could witness that and want what we have which at that point would be a close relationship with Jesus and doing what He asked us to do which is love each other....and God most of all.
Repentance and salvation are just that and we are all covered by the blood of Jesus. So why bother to argue over the points of different doctrines? A waste of time in my opinion. Our time would be better spent loving each other and helping each other out so the world could witness that and want what we have which at that point would be a close relationship with Jesus and doing what He asked us to do which is love each other....and God most of all.
People love their church its customs , ins and outs so I understand taking up for family ..
I'm 3/4 European so I'm pretty sure my ancestors are both RCC and Protestant .. The other 1/4 Muslim from Lebanon/my wild side .. I have donated to catholic relief services during a couple disasters around the world ..I even took in an RCC stranger for 3 days who was born again and on fire for Jesus as much as any one I've ever seen and a miracle testimony to match , he never mentioned anything about the RCC except that he said he was one before the miracle neither did he disown or say any thing bad about it .. But here's comes the boom .. A Franciscan monk sponsored by the RCC church found a grave yard at the Mt of Olives in Jerusalem with bones in an ossuary marked Simon bar Jonah and other biblical names were found close by .. This was found in 1953 and reported to Pious XII? If that's true it is a game changer imo .. Then I find out the bible never records Peter being in Rome in fact his mission was to the Jews.. Even if, why Rome for HQ by then Paul was working in Rome and churches were every where and springing up
I'm 3/4 European so I'm pretty sure my ancestors are both RCC and Protestant .. The other 1/4 Muslim from Lebanon/my wild side .. I have donated to catholic relief services during a couple disasters around the world ..I even took in an RCC stranger for 3 days who was born again and on fire for Jesus as much as any one I've ever seen and a miracle testimony to match , he never mentioned anything about the RCC except that he said he was one before the miracle neither did he disown or say any thing bad about it .. But here's comes the boom .. A Franciscan monk sponsored by the RCC church found a grave yard at the Mt of Olives in Jerusalem with bones in an ossuary marked Simon bar Jonah and other biblical names were found close by .. This was found in 1953 and reported to Pious XII? If that's true it is a game changer imo .. Then I find out the bible never records Peter being in Rome in fact his mission was to the Jews.. Even if, why Rome for HQ by then Paul was working in Rome and churches were every where and springing up
Wow. I never went to Catholic schools, always public, and was always encouraged to think and to understand and to read. I was never treated like some kind of Stepford wife and walk into oblivion like a robot like you were. No wonder you left your church. And I moved around quite a bit as a kid and never had a church home.
You do bring a valid point about the IC. I don't believe in it and it has been a dilemma, because I don't feel at home in the church it being such a cornerstone of faith. But have no where else to go.
I did not leave the catholic church because of any way i was treated.. I left the catholic church because i read the Bible and i saw all the catholic teachings that where not in alignment with the Bible.. When i was a kid and a young teen i had no trouble with the notion that the leadership of the catholic church was guided by God in all their teachings and dogmas.. I was an Altar boy for 10 years and i had and still have an uncle who is a catholic priest.. I was right at home in the catholic church..
Anyway the notion of having a home.. If God is with you and you are right with God you have a home with Him in Spirit.. Yeah it's nice to have a ""church"" to go to and to feel a part of a human community like a religious community.. But if being part of a human community means that one is sacrificing their relationship with God then one is sacrificing their eternity with a perfect God for a few decades within a religious community..
I would prefer to be like Noah and be right with God and be rejected by my human neighbors..
Noah was saved.
His mocking neighbors where not..
What I mean by not having anywhere else to go is that most Protestants - you included - have what I describe as a great contempt for the Catholic Church which I don't believe I could ever share. And while I don't (better said is "can't") believe that Mary is co-redemtrix to Christ, I still think Mary is blessed among all women. The Protestant church all but ignores her and many here at CC claim to be more blessed and holy than her. It's amazing to me. There's many other scripture based beliefs I have enforcing Catholic teaching that I do believe and the Protestant Church doesn't. Honestly, most Protestant church seem to have beliefs all over the map with a lot more crazy stuff than the immaculate conception of Mary. So, when I say I don't know where to go, I mean there's no clear bridge that I know of between the Catholic and Protestant churches. I understand this thought of rejecting all worldly connection, but I am simply not that smart - which is what I said in the beginning! I prefer to hear people and try to form rational thought from studied people of God. Not come up with my own take on scripture. I think that's nuts and can lead to real damage.
M
morefaithrequired
Guest
Some people get obsessed and lose sight of the main goal. the main goal is a healthy relationship with God/Jesus. Dont worry about all the "errant "doctrines out there. If they are wrong they wont last.
Of course i believe that Mary was blessed above all woman because she had the great honor of bearing Jesus.. But the catholic church raises her up to the position that no human being should ever have..
I have not actually joined any ""protestant"" churches.. You may think that protestants ignore her but the only time catholcs seem to hear protestants talking about Mary is when they are attacking the catholic churches positon on Mary.. So in a catholcis mind the protestants are always bringing Mary down and they assume that protestants think very badly of Mary.. Thats a distorted view..
When i left the catholic church i simply became a Bible believing Christian and if anyone asked me i told them i was non-denominational..
No one should be seeking to come up with their own take on scripture... People should be praying to God earnestly for God to inspire them to know what they need to know from scripture to be saved.. Placing ones faith in ""studied people of God"" is insane.. Because how does one know if the teachers who instructed the supposed "" studied people of God"" did not make up their own take on scripture themselves...
I guess we just disagree. I'm not putting my faith in teachers, I'm putting my faith in God and learning from teachers. I mean, if I had to have heart surgery I'm not going to my neighbor down the road who says he's done a little bit of docterin'. I'm going to a studied person of medicine. That's insane?
M
morefaithrequired
Guest
Its the sources you trust in the end . I dont trust denoms. that started late like all the ones after 1500.
I trust what the Church Fathers said. And I trust the theologians who write about them.
I trust what the Church Fathers said. And I trust the theologians who write about them.
How do you know these ""teachers"" are inspired by the Holy Spirit in what they teach you?
And where not talking about doctors and surgery.. End up dead because of a doctors incompetence,, Not good but at lest if one is saved one has eternity with God.. Getting it wrong with God is by far and away more serious then having ones life cut short by an incompetent doctor..
It is as clear as day that this post is making the claim that the protestant movement was inspired and thus is inspired by demons.. So just as the scribes who came from Jerusalem accused Jesus of having a demon so to now does this agent of the roman catholic cult accuse all protestants of being lead by demons..
This is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and for this sin there shall never be forgiveness in this world or the next..
We love others by telling them the truth.. Sometimes being told the truth sounds like a personal attack,, Different people react to the truth differently.. Some people will embrace the truth with tears of joy.. Others will spit in your face and declare you to be lead by demons.. Such is life..
M
morefaithrequired
Guest
The truth is Adstar you need to look at the man in the mirror. Focus on your own faith journey. Your own sins. Not the sins (alleged or real) of the Catholic Church. This hatred of us has become obsessive.
Im sorry if that sounds disrespectful. I will ignore your future posts until you calm down.
M
morefaithrequired
Guest
sorry if I contributed to that. i usually ignore Adstar but finally felt I had to say something in defence.
S
Susanna
Guest
What I’m going to say now hasn’t got anything to do with this thread, it’s my general view of the debating climate here.
It’s my understanding, based on seven years of being a member here, that ‘truth’ is one of the most misused words.
‘Truth’ has become a word people can wrap around their insults and hatred in order to sugarcoat their rantings with a varnish of sound Biblical ground.
Maybe they’re trying to make people shut up? They succeed of course to some extent, but personally I don’t take much notice except from getting indifferent regarding those people.
It’s my understanding, based on seven years of being a member here, that ‘truth’ is one of the most misused words.
‘Truth’ has become a word people can wrap around their insults and hatred in order to sugarcoat their rantings with a varnish of sound Biblical ground.
Maybe they’re trying to make people shut up? They succeed of course to some extent, but personally I don’t take much notice except from getting indifferent regarding those people.