Why did God choose Israel?

[atwhatcost]

I've skimmed through a few threads dealing with predestination. I don't think any has answered why God decided choose Israel in the beginning of Genesis. Since He did choose the Israelites as His people, then wouldn't that still carry over today? Aren't certain people called instead of others today, just as they were back then? Please be civil about this. Things have a tendency to get off track in the BDF.

He chooses the weak and the foolish to confound the strong and smart. Israel fit that bill, (also through God's will.) The Savior came from that people and came to save all the whosoever-will-believe from what all deserve, including, even today, from those people.

Why? He wanted that. His good will.

If not the Israelites, why not the Irish, the Inuits, the Mongolians, or the Lithuanians? No particular reason other than what God willed/wills. That's a very good reason.

If we can get it out of our heads that there is something about us worth saving, it's much easier to see God knows no one is worth it. He wants it. He alone is worthy. (Much easier. Not to be confused with easy. lol) He chose his kids wisely, but that doesn't make his kids wise.

 

[just-me]

I've skimmed through a few threads dealing with predestination. I don't think any has answered why God decided choose Israel in the beginning of Genesis. Since He did choose the Israelites as His people, then wouldn't that still carry over today? Aren't certain people called instead of others today, just as they were back then? Please be civil about this. Things have a tendency to get off track in the BDF.

God chose Israel because of Abraham's faith. That's where it all started as we know.

 

[Vernon]

The seed of the woman came through Israel, specifically Judah, more specifically the line of King David.

Why did God choose a stiff necked and rebellious people? To be a witness to the world that His mercy endures forever, even to this day. To show that it is not by works of righteousness that we are reconciled, but by the grace and love of God.

just a thought.

 

[Biblelogic01]

So are people still called over others today? Does that mean Christ wants thosevand not the others?

Here is a short summary (I'm not putting the scripture on it, because that would make the post really really long).

So in prophets God chatises Israel and uses shepherd and flock referncing. He calls Israel His sheep, and their leaders shepherds (corrupt shepherds basically). Eventually God states due to the bad shepherding Israel will be a scattered flock to the nations, spread out everywhere. Then God will come as the good shepherd to gather His sheep (this is why when Yeshua referred to Himself as the good shepherd people started recognizing who He was, some disagreed and hated it, some loved it).

Now Yeshua says He's gathering 2 flocks together which is referncing back to the prophets. Israel was split into 2 kingdoms Ephriam and Judah. Ephriam was the kingdom that got scattered everywhere for not holding on to God's ways; Judah held on to God's ways, but perverted it (started adding to it and making it into a way to benefit the religious leaders, which is why the religious leaders did not recognize Yeshua as the Messiah). Now in modern day terms Ephriam is the gentiles, Judah is the Jews. Yeshua is the good shepherd and is going to bring both of them together as Israel. This is why it's stated there is no Jew or Greek in Messiah. When someone comes into salvation through Yeshua and follows His ways, that person is grafted into Israel.

That's the long story short.

 

[atwhatcost]

More so than any other nation He could have chosen? God loves all of us, but since He started at point A, doesn't that mean there are those already called over others? Or am I reading too much into the verse and whole concept in general?

Where does everyone get "God loves all?" If God loves all, he'd save all. He loves whosoever will believe, which are those the Father has chosen. (John 3:16-21, John 6:35-40, and Romans 8-9 -- chapters, not just verses.) He out and out said he hated Esau. Esau isn't the only one God hates.

 

[atwhatcost]

So are people still called over others today? Does that mean Christ wants thosevand not the others?

​Yes, actually.

 

[DesiredHaven]

Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.

Confounding the wise, and confounding the Jew is by those without any understanding, God chosing the foolish things of this world to confound the other, would appear to be between the nations (Abraham was made father of in the plural sense of them) Paul said, did Israel not know, and that which speaks of provoking them to jealously by those without understanding would be as by the Gentiles, no?

 

[jsr1221]

Where does everyone get "God loves all?" If God loves all, he'd save all. He loves whosoever will believe, which are those the Father has chosen. (John 3:16-21, John 6:35-40, and Romans 8-9 -- chapters, not just verses.) He out and out said he hated Esau. Esau isn't the only one God hates.

God doesn't save everyone because not everyone believes. Christ says no one shall come to the Father except through Him. What made God choose Jacob over Esau? Finally, why would God create someone just to send him/her to hell, if one person is already born chosen and saved, and the other spends the given lifetime wasted?

 

[DesiredHaven]

Duet 4:6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.

Like the turning things upside down

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise;

Then you look at those who were "confounded", its the Jews

Save Paul was also a Jew, and teacher of the Gentiles

Acts 9:22 But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ.

And who is "made unto us" wisdom

1Cr 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Whereas on the contrary, he that believeth on him shall not be confounded

1Peter 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

Speaking to the Gentiles, He says,

Romans 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

The Gentiles (even of the multitudes) are now being drawn in desired to hear the word of God

Acts 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.

And God who works all things after the counsel of His will, and shows this as being part of His counsel to "provoke them" to envy or jealousy even by those not a people (even as Paul magnified his office to provke to emulation his kinsmen according to the flesh) given its within the will of God to do so.

And even by what is considered foolish, would seem to mesh there. Because again here, this (and for them) is that which is to be recognized in the sight of the nations (concerning themselves)

Duet 4:6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.

But then again, God is shown chosing the foolish things to confound the wise, and those who were being confounded (even at that time) were the Jews. Even as those who He would provoke to jealousy (as Moses spake of). The same is shown in the Jews (at that time) also .

 

[DesiredHaven]

These might be able to caught a little better in a few of these, you can write them up in a variety of ways, which is often helpful for laying them out differently time and again.

Romans 10:19 First Moses saith,
I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

1 Cr 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise;
and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

Acts 9:22 But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ.

1Peter 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

Likewise this way....

Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Now, as God says (In His great scheme of things)

Duet 10:12 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

And so we can see this demonstrated as God is doing this drawing in the Gentiles

Acts 13:45 But when the Jews **saw** the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and**spake against** those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.

They are filled with jealousy, and begin this

1Peter 4:14... on their part he is **evil spoken of**, but on your part he is glorified.

Thats the prophecy, its what he is "set for" (to be spoken against)

Luke 2:34 Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be **spoken against**

Romans 11:11 I say then,
Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

It worked, they were jealous according to the word of God and His intention toward them

Ephes 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

God choosing the foolish things of this world to confound the wise, and what will be what in the sight of the nations (Gentiles)

Duet4:6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.

1Cr1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

 

[crossnote]

I've skimmed through a few threads dealing with predestination. I don't think any has answered why God decided choose Israel in the beginning of Genesis. Since He did choose the Israelites as His people, then wouldn't that still carry over today? Aren't certain people called instead of others today, just as they were back then? Please be civil about this. Things have a tendency to get off track in the BDF.

It does carry over today for the gifts and CALLING of God are without repentance. God has for the most part set aside Temporarily His direct dealings with the Jews and is directly dealing with what is now called the Church i.e. those called from both Jews and Gentiles. But we are beginning to see God's direct dealings once again with the Jews, to go into full motion (after the rapture of the Church ) as they will be purged in the Tribulation to the point where they cry out for their true Messiah and thus His return as King.
So yes that initial calling of the Jews is still in effect....IMHO of course.

 

[atwhatcost]

God doesn't save everyone because not everyone believes. Christ says no one shall come to the Father except through Him. What made God choose Jacob over Esau? Finally, why would God create someone just to send him/her to hell, if one person is already born chosen and saved, and the other spends the given lifetime wasted?

That's why I included the references. Those are the places the Bible speaks of this. And, no, salvation doesn't come from our belief. Belief comes from salvation. Read the references. It's in there.

 

[jsr1221]

That's why I included the references. Those are the places the Bible speaks of this. And, no, salvation doesn't come from our belief. Belief comes from salvation. Read the references. It's in there.

Being chosen and believing aren't the same though, are they? The example of Esau. God might see a lot of people today like He saw Esau back then. Didn't Esau believe, though? Almost everyone that joins this site believes, but maybe not all are chosen. So why would some people spend however many portion of their lives believing if when the time comes, they weren't chosen? I know what you're saying, but that part is what's confusing me.

 

[weakness]

God chose Israel because of Abraham's faith. That's where it all started as we know.

I don't think that is where all started. Like said ,Abel, Adam , Enoch, Melchizedek( important) ect. God's hand was in this before even creation. Prov. speaks of Jesus with God ,it seems, before creation Joying in the 'habitable parts of the earth" Abraham was a significant person, called to bear the image of the father in his son's sacrifice, a man with faith, and fear at times We don't know what we sometimes think we do and this often leads to r discussions ,My self included. Not that everything has to be Soooo serious. Any way I think sometimes that If we spent as much time as is done here on trivial, terminologies that a lot don't understand, we would have half the world converted already. But there is a place for this group and bible discussion and fellowship . I sorry it just came out! I love to learn about the lord and him, But when I spend so much time whit sometimes little or negative fruit , I wonder, sometimes I actually makes me feel sick. I'm not blaming anybody for my own feelings, I'm just sharing them. Back to the thread.Im' sorry and burned out and half to rest chat later........Blessings

 

[prove-all]

Deuteronomy 14:2 (KJV)
For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God, and the Lord hath chosen thee to be
a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.

Exodus 19(KJV)
3And Moses went up unto God, and the Lord called unto him out of the mountain, saying,
Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;

4Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings,
and brought you unto myself.

5Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant,
then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

6And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.
These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Psalms 132:13 (KJV)
For the Lord hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.

Psalms 135:4 (KJV)
For the Lord hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure.

Psalms 33:12 (KJV)
Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord;
and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.


Jeremiah 33:24 (KJV)
Considerest thou [not] what this people have spoken, saying,
The two families which the Lord hath chosen, he hath even cast them off?
thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them.

 

[prove-all]

The spiritual promises—the promises of the “one seed,”
Christ, and of salvation through Him—the Bible calls the scepter.

But the material and national promises relating to many nations, national wealth, prosperity and power,
and possession of the Holy Land, the Bible calls the birthright.

Both the birthright and the scepter were repromised by the Eternal to Abraham and Isaac and to Jacob.

The sceptre shall not depart from Judah …” (Genesis 49:10).
But the birthright was Joseph’s” (1 Chronicles 5:2).

 

[atwhatcost]

Being chosen and believing aren't the same though, are they? The example of Esau. God might see a lot of people today like He saw Esau back then. Didn't Esau believe, though? Almost everyone that joins this site believes, but maybe not all are chosen. So why would some people spend however many portion of their lives believing if when the time comes, they weren't chosen? I know what you're saying, but that part is what's confusing me.

Being chosen for a professional sports team isn't the same thing as believing you've been hired by one. You won't believe you've been hired, until your chosen.

I don't know if Esau believed. Probably not. Who wants to believe in someone who cramps your style? He certainly wasn't chosen, so why would he believe? Go hated him.

And again, I've given the reference. Do you not trust the references?

 

[atwhatcost]

I don't think that is where all started. Like said ,Abel, Adam , Enoch, Melchizedek( important) ect. God's hand was in this before even creation. Prov. speaks of Jesus with God ,it seems, before creation Joying in the 'habitable parts of the earth" Abraham was a significant person, called to bear the image of the father in his son's sacrifice, a man with faith, and fear at times We don't know what we sometimes think we do and this often leads to r discussions ,My self included. Not that everything has to be Soooo serious. Any way I think sometimes that If we spent as much time as is done here on trivial, terminologies that a lot don't understand, we would have half the world converted already. But there is a place for this group and bible discussion and fellowship . I sorry it just came out! I love to learn about the lord and him, But when I spend so much time whit sometimes little or negative fruit , I wonder, sometimes I actually makes me feel sick. I'm not blaming anybody for my own feelings, I'm just sharing them. Back to the thread.Im' sorry and burned out and half to rest chat later........Blessings

This isn't trivial. This is the base. Did God choose or did we choose. If we chose, God lied. If we choose, than we deserved to be saved. (We don't.) This is the big kahuna. Believe or don't, but don't means not saved.

 

[jaybird88]

God doesn't save everyone because not everyone believes. Christ says no one shall come to the Father except through Him. What made God choose Jacob over Esau? Finally, why would God create someone just to send him/her to hell, if one person is already born chosen and saved, and the other spends the given lifetime wasted?

Esau condemned himself by taking Canaanite wives and infecting his bloodline. the bloodline of Jesus would have to go through Jacob to remain pure.

 

[MarcR]

So are people still called over others today? Does that mean Christ wants thosevand not the others?

In Christ God makes no distinctions of preference among believers.

Before Jesus' earthly ministry God chose to communicate knowledge of Himself to the world through Israel; and, as kaylagrl has pointed out, God chose for Jesus to enter His earthly ministry through Israel via Mary.


God may or may not have a special role for Israel in eternity; but if He does, it will not be based on favoritism.