Who Is Matt 24 Addressed To?

Pilgrimshope · Dec 13, 2020

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c.[/QUOTE]

I re- read this and it’s maybe one of the most thorough And edifying things I’ve read in awhile outside of scripture

one of the main points you are making is the biggest issues of all aspects of the church doctrine there is a new age movement that insists for various reasonings that “Jesus words aren’t for you because you have faith and grace “

they will teach several things like Jesus was teaching the law of Moses a second time its ot , they say of anything is required of you to have to do anything it isn’t for you because “ that’s not grace “ yet Jesus taught many things of what to do and not do , warnings terrifying ones to keep the fear of God alive in the gospel all Of those things are not only profitable for Christians they are Christians doctrine in full and the final judgement of mankind is shaped in those words

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Everything in the gospel that jesus taught his disciples is for all people Not every word he said in the gospel because sometimes he’s rebuking Pharisees or talking to someone about the law of Moses ect but the teachings and kk from parables the things he taught those who followed and heard his teachings are for everyone who will accept and believe and be saved

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:

jesus taught the Israelites who would believe him and then sent them to teach the same gospel they believed to all people all nations fulfilling the promise of Abraham in the earth .

and today even , here we are discussing thier teachings and his gospel that began in Jerusalem in that day and has reached believing hearts of those today who have a daring heart to believe what he actually said and see how it expands into another world

Becoming Part of the church that stretches over time and over the whole earth I. Believers everywhere those gone ahead and those still here , and those who will come tomorrow and believe the one gospel he sent out into the world for salvation

“Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:21-22‬ ‭

The engrafted word

“The law and the prophets were until John:

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭

The gospel of the kingdom is for everyone which is what Jesus preached to his disciples

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 13, 2020

Regarding the phrase in 1 Thessalonians 4:15 "by [/in / en - G1722] the word of the Lord"...

... consider the following:

[quoting Gaebelein's Commentary on same]

"1Thessalonians 4:13-18 ["For this we say to you in the Word of the Lord, that [...]"]
[...]
"These words contain one of the great revelations of the Bible and require therefore closer attention. It is a special and unique revelation which he gives to the sorrowing Thessalonians, occasioned by the mistake they had made when some of their fellow believers had died, and they feared that these departed ones had lost their share in the coming glorious meeting between the Lord and His saints. They sorrowed on their account like those who have no hope. (Their pagan neighbors had no hope of meeting loved ones again after death. Classic Greek and Roman writers abound with dreary expressions of the hopelessness of death.) We must remember that the New Testament was not yet in existence; only one of the gospels, was written; and not one of the epistles. And so the Lord gave to the apostle the special revelation which would quiet their fears and put before them the details of the coming of the Lord for all His saints, those who had fallen asleep and those alive when He comes.
Our Lord spoke that blessed word to His eleven disciples, “I will come again and receive you unto myself, that where I am ye may be also” (John 14:3). It is the only time He mentioned His coming for His own, and in speaking of it He did not tell them of signs to precede that coming, such as wars, false Christs and the great tribulation. It was the simple announcement that He would come again and receive those who are His to Himself. He did not say a word about the manner of that coming and how He would receive His own into glory to be with Him. Nor did the Thessalonians hear definite teaching on this from the lips of Paul. They knew He would come again; they waited for Him. But as to the manner of His coming and concerning those who had already fallen asleep and their relation to that event they were in ignorance. Beautiful it is to see how graciously the Lord answered the question of these sorrowing ones and how much more He adds for the comfort of all His people.

"The first statement is in 1Thessalonians 4:14. “For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, so also God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep through Jesus.” Let us first notice that blessed statement that “Jesus died.” Of the saints it is said that they have fallen asleep; but never is it said that Jesus slept. He tasted death, the death in all its unfathomable meaning as the judgment upon sin. For the saints the physical death is but sleep. (Some have perverted the meaning of “sleep,” and, instead of applying it, as Scripture does, to the body, they apply it to the soul. Soul-sleep is nowhere taught in the Bible and is therefore an invention by those who handle the Word deceitfully.) And He who died also rose again; as certainly as He died and rose again, so surely shall all believers rise. God will bring all those who have fallen asleep through Jesus with Him, that is with the Lord when He comes in the day of His glorious manifestation. It does not mean the receiving of them by the Lord, nor does it mean that He brings their disembodied spirits with Him to be united to their bodies from the graves, but it means that those who have fallen asleep will God bring with His Son when He comes with all His saints; they will all be in that glorified company. When the Lord comes back from glory all the departed saints will be with Him. This is what the Thessalonians needed to know first of all. Before we follow this blessed revelation in its unfolding we call attention to the phrase “fallen asleep through (not in) Jesus”; it may also be rendered by “those who were put to sleep by Jesus.” His saints in life and death are in His hands. When saints put their bodies aside, it is because their Lord has willed it so. “Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of His saints” (Psalm 116:15). When our loved ones leave us, may we think of their departure as being “put to sleep by Jesus.”

"But blessed as this answer to their question is, it produced another difficulty. Hearing that the saints who had fallen asleep would come with the Lord on the day of His glorious manifestation, they would ask, “How is it possible that they can come with Him?” Are they coming as disembodied spirits? What about their bodies in the graves? How shall they come with Him? To answer these questions the special revelation “by the Word of the Lord” is given, by which they learned, and we also, how they would all be with Him so as to come with Him at His appearing. “For this we say to you by the Word of the Lord, that we, the living, who remain unto the coming of the Lord, are in no wise to anticipate those who have fallen asleep.” He tells them that when the Lord comes for His saints, those who have fallen asleep will not have an inferior place and that, we, the living, who remain to the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. When Paul wrote these words and said, “We, the living, who remain,” he certainly considered himself as included in that class. The two companies who will meet the Lord when He comes, those who have fallen asleep and those who are living, are mentioned here for the first time. How the living saints will not precede those who have departed and the order in which the coming of the Lord for His saints will be executed is next made known in this wonderful revelation.
“For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with an assembling shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trump of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first, then, we, the living, who remain, shall be caught up together with them in clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.” This is an altogether new revelation. Nothing like it is found anywhere in the Old Testament Scriptures. In writing later to the Corinthians Paul mentioned it again. “Behold I show you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump; for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed” (1Corinthians 15:51-52)."

--Gaebelein, 1 Thessalonians 4 Commentary, from BibleHub - 1 Thessalonians 4 Gaebelein's Annotated Bible (biblehub.com)

[end quoting; bold and underline mine]

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 13, 2020

^ ... and one more thing along those ^ lines:

[quoting an old post]

[...] it's like the difference between the following two [distinct] phrases (which many ppl tend to conflate):

--"in THE revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven, with His mighty angels" 2Th1:7 (an eschatological context);

[versus...]

--"[BEING BROUGHT [G5342, present participle] to you] in revelation [no definite article] of Jesus Christ" 1Pet1:13 (NOT an eschatological context, though most people use this verse as EQUATING it to "THE revelation" as in the above entry ^ )

[quoting] From BibleHub [re: G5342] -

"(1 Pet 1:13) being brought (5342 /phérō) – 1 Pet 1:13 commands us to "completely (5049 /teleíōs) hope on the grace now being brought (present, passive participle of 5342 /phérō) in (en) revelation (no article) of Jesus Christ."

"The following is a fuller expanded rendering of the Greek text, "Wherefore [in view of the meaning of salvation that extends to glorification, 1 Pet 1:9] having girded up the loins of your mind, being radically-moderate, completely hope on the grace being carried along (5342 /phérō) to you, in revelation, concerning Jesus Christ."

[end quote from BibleHub; bold and underline mine]

[end quoting old post]

safswan · Dec 16, 2020

TheDivineWatermark said:

Not seeing anything addressing the fact that Jesus was speaking to those who are the foundation of the Church.

safswan · Dec 16, 2020

TheDivineWatermark said:

The kingdom being prepared would come first and afterwards the place/position for individual believers.

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 16, 2020

safswan said:

Up to and including His Olivet Discourse, He wasn't addressing them "as such," but as those "to whom the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom[-age]" was promised. (the "proleptic 'you'" of the passage). These disciples [in particular] were those whom He had already told will "sit on 12 thrones, judgING the 12 tribes of Israel" (that is, in the earthly-located Kingdom[-age]).

It wasn't until His [later] UPPER ROOM Discourse, that He introduces the seed-doctrines pertaining to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (but with very little elaboration).

safswan · Dec 16, 2020

TheDivineWatermark said:

Regardless of when it was introduced(and your time is incorrect)they are who they are.The foundation of the Church.

Tararose · Dec 16, 2020

Fascinating how this topic makes the caps lock and underline tool come into their own.

I was only talking about this a few days ago with a friend. We came to the conclusion that with topics Like this that great men of God have disagreed on for centuries, it is Perhaps better to share what we are convinced of if necessary, but assume we personally really know very little, whilst remembering we are called to love others very much.

Better to practice dying to self now and being faithful in the small things and bearing with one another in love. Then if we die soon or Christ returns or we are still around when tribulation comes - (Torture, death you’re name it, as happens daily in many parts of the world already, and has done since Christ came to earth -) we will be much better prepared.

Whatever you believe we know we can always lean on “take no thought for tomorrow” and “our Father knows what we need before we ask it”, as well as Jesus’ promise to never leave nor forsake us. His sheep hear His voice and He makes their paths straight ahead of them. Just stay on the path

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 16, 2020

safswan said:

Did you happen to see a post I made the other day:

[quoting from it]

Notice in the following passage I'm always pointing out... see how verses 6 and 10 have the SAME GREEK WORDS [same 2 Grk words]

1 Thessalonians 5:6-11 -

6 So then we should not sleep [G2518 - katheudōmen] as the others, but we should watch [G1127 - grēgorōmen] and we should be sober.

7 For those sleeping, sleep by night; and those becoming drunk, get drunk by night.

8 But we being of the day should be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and the helmet, the hope of salvation,

9 because God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 the One having died for us, so that whether we might watch [G1127 - grēgorōmen] OR whether we might sleep [G2518 - katheudōmen], we may live together with [G4862 - syn - 'unioned-with'/'identified-with'] Him.

11 Therefore encourage one another and build up one another, just as also you are doing.

...note that THIS [Grk word for] "sleep" is an altogether distinct Grk word from the "sleep [G2837 - koimōmenōn / koimēthentas] of the PREVIOUS CHPT in 1 Thessalonians 4:13,14,15 (speaking of "the dead in Christ" of v.16). 1Th5:6,10 is not speaking of being "asleep" in death, like the previous chpt is (per this context being alongside v.6).

So this passage is saying that "whether we may watch, OR whether we may sleep" (same context as what v.6 is speaking about)... which is distinct from what certain passages are stating in the Olivet Discourse, for example, and other related passages (like Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44,45-48 "when he will RETURN from the wedding"... THEN the meal [G347]... which is also not a "Rapture" passage, etc.)

[end quoting]

____________

It was Paul who was given the task of disclosing the doctrines "to/for/about" the Church which is His body.

[Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)]

Certain things were required to have been "kept secret [/ hidden in God / undisclosed]" before His Death/Cross (for reasons mentioned in 1Cor2:8 - "for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory." [etc])

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 16, 2020

Paul -
Young's Literal Translation
Ye see in how large letters I have written to you with my own hand

Others -
Berean Study Bible
and raised their voices, shouting, “Jesus, Master, have mercy on us!”

... I don't mind being counted among them...

(in neither of these examples were they considered "love-less" = ) .)

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 16, 2020

safswan said:

I'm not sure what you are referring to (by the bold ^ ), but to clarify:

--I'm not referring to when "the Church" was introduced [(meaning) 'the Church which is His body']

--I'm not referring to when "the Church" started [(meaning) 'the Church which is His body']

... I was referring, instead, to when He introduced the seed-doctrine OF it / pertaining TO it (but without much elaboration at that time).

It was tasked to Paul to disclose and unfold the doctrines pertaining [especially] to it / "the Church which is His body". (later)

safswan · Dec 26, 2020

TheDivineWatermark said:

This makes no sense.If we are warned not to sleep:

1Thessalonians 5:
1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

How can the sleep of vs. 10 be the same as the sleep of verse 6?Context is of no help if we fail to understand what is being said.Your dichotomy fails.

tanakh · Dec 26, 2020

Tararose said:

Fascinating how this topic makes the caps lock and underline tool come into their own.

I was only talking about this a few days ago with a friend. We came to the conclusion that with topics Like this that great men of God have disagreed on for centuries, it is Perhaps better to share what we are convinced of if necessary, but assume we personally really know very little, whilst remembering we are called to love others very much.

Better to practice dying to self now and being faithful in the small things and bearing with one another in love. Then if we die soon or Christ returns or we are still around when tribulation comes - (Torture, death you’re name it, as happens daily in many parts of the world already, and has done since Christ came to earth -) we will be much better prepared.

Whatever you believe we know we can always lean on “take no thought for tomorrow” and “our Father knows what we need before we ask it”, as well as Jesus’ promise to never leave nor forsake us. His sheep hear His voice and He makes their paths straight ahead of them. Just stay on the path

Its refreshing to see some words of wisdom and insight.

TheWaytoGo · Dec 26, 2020

FlyingDove said:

Jesus told His disciples He was going to build His church using them before the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24 so He was addressing the church in 24 (and the future sealed Jews). They asked Him about the end times, so He told them everything.

Mat 16:18 "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

Pre Trib supporters ALWAYS hang their evidence on the day and the hour of the Rapture being unknown. Matthew 24 sums up the end of the old earth, He addresses everybody involved at the end. One cannot pick one verse from Matthew 24, then say the rest of the chapter belongs to the Jews, but that one verse belongs to the church.

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Mat 24:44 "For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 26, 2020

TheWaytoGo said:

ALL of Matthew 24 is telling of what takes place FOLLOWING "our Rapture"

(Matthew 24 is not covering the Subject of "our Rapture" AT ALL, but of His Second Coming to the earth [FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom] and what LEADS UP TO and immediately precedes THAT)

This is speaking of His Second Coming TO THE EARTH ("know" here is NOT saying that "no one WILL EVER know," or "no one CAN EVER know"... NO.)

1492 [e]
oiden
οἶδεν ,
knows
V-RIA-3S

[note the "PERFECT tense" here]

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 26, 2020

^ ... some 60 YEARS LATER, Jesus DISCLOSED *further information* ON THAT SUBJECT (in "[The] Revelation of Jesus Christ which GOD GAVE UNTO HIM [unto Jesus] TO SHEW UNTO..." 1:1... and that entire Book is like a "time-stamped calendar" with MUCH detail on that very Subject [the one in Matt24:36!])

TheWaytoGo · Dec 26, 2020

Thanks for your response. There is only one Second Coming described as the coming or Coming or gathering.

The harvest and resurrection of the dead happens only once (the dead are not raised 7 years before His Second Coming, and then the few that died during the Tribulation, are then raised up in a second Rapture 7 years later at His Second Coming. Where is that in Scripture where there are two resurrections of His Saints).

The dead in Christ are raised only ONCE, at His Second Coming.

I tried to prove Pre-Trib that I took for granted being taught that for 40 years. Every Pre Trib verse, when studied in context of entire chapter, turned out to be His Second Coming.

Jesus said the wheat and the tares would grow TOGETHER until the last day of the world - the tares would be bundled for burning, then His children would be gathered to Him.

The slaves asked the landowner if he wanted the weeds gathered up that were growing in the field. He answered:

Mat 13:29 "But he *said, 'No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them.

30 'Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn."'"

[Paul writes of this gathering to Him in 2Th 2:1-12 It will be AFTER the revealing of the lawless one at the Abomination of Desolation which happens MID-TRIB, so the Church is here AFTER the mid trib].

Mat 13:37 And He said, "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man,

Mat 13:38 and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;

Mat 13:39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and

the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels.

Mat 13:40 "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.

Mat 13:41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,

Mat 13:42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire;...

Mat 13:43 "Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

Here is Jesus in Revelation reaping the harvest at His Second Coming just like He told us it would happen in the the verses above:

Rev 14:14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and sitting on the cloud was one like a son of man, having a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand.

Rev 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying out with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, "Put in your sickle and reap, for the hour to reap has come, because the harvest of the earth is ripe." [The word ripe means "spoiled"].

This following verse is the Rapture of the living and the dead in Christ:

Rev 14:16 Then He who sat on the cloud swung His sickle over the earth, and the earth was reaped.

If you read the following verses Rev 14:17-20, they describe the Wrath of God being poured out (after the Rapture) on the spoiled grapes, as they're put through the winepress of the final Battle of Armageddon (the blood came up to the horse's bridles for 200 miles).

Here is Paul confirming that ALL that are Christ's will be raised up at His Second Coming. This is also describing the Rapture - at His Second Coming:

1Co 15:20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.

21 For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

First Christ was raised from the dead, next the rest of us will be raised at His Second Coming:

23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming,

TheWaytoGo · Dec 26, 2020

TheDivineWatermark said:

Not sure I understand what you are saying.

Search

Who Is Matt 24 Addressed To?

Pilgrimshope

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TheDivineWatermark

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safswan

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