Who Is Matt 24 Addressed To?

eternally-gratefull · Dec 3, 2020

You don’t have to rewrite

It took me all of like 5 minutes to write that snippet, it is basic and to the point, and it gives us an foundation to discuss

i learned along time ago people do not read long drawn out posting or writings from just anyone, they want to get to the nitty gritty and actually take a passage and break it apart,

again, you called me lazy because I forgot to write the book and chapter down, yet here you are, Being lazy because you do not want to look at a few verses and discuss it, you would rather promote your web site, instead ( this is how it appears) and then judge people because they have no desire to go read something

eternally-gratefull · Dec 3, 2020

calibob said:

Yeah since I arrived her about 7 or 8 years ago, this is the most heated topic I think I have seen (I think calvinism is second) many have been banned, and many have hurt their own reputation, it’s sad. Especially on a non essential doctrine, believing Dan 9 is fulfilled or not believing it has no bearing on ones eternity.

eternally-gratefull · Dec 3, 2020

GaryA said:

It’s not a game

your the one playing the game

1. you refuse to look at the passage with me
2. you have atta Jed me since I wrote it, with no counterpoints
3. you have done nothing but attack my character with no evidence what I said was truly wrong

some of what I said was a quote, I paraphrased the rest, but unless you can prove I claimed he said something he never said, you have nothing to attack me for

again, I come to expect this from many of you, you can either humble yourself and take the time to discuss it with me, or keep a ring like you are, and basically show you have nothing to offer,

Blik · Dec 4, 2020

Blackpowderduelist said:

I agree, but in the same way refusing to see Christ in the temple system is also wrong.

Blackpowderduelist · Dec 4, 2020

Blik said:

Why look at a what was a shadow of Christ to come, after he has already come? We can look to Jesus himself.

Blik · Dec 4, 2020

Blackpowderduelist said:

Do you think that a shadow distorts what it shadows?

Scripture tells us that we are to learn from all scripture. Much of the new testament is a quote or paraphrase of the old testament. What is actually originally new testament is a small percentage of the scripture the Lord has given us. If we were to discard the old testament because it is ONLY a shadow, the Lord would not have made the shadow much larger than the reality of Christ.

Blackpowderduelist · Dec 4, 2020

Blik said:

Learn from not return to. We gain nothing by returning to temples and sacrifices.
Shadows obscure and veil, Christ is revealed. It's not fitting to return to the shadows when the light is revealed.

It would be like keeping a package but discarding the gift.

Blik · Dec 4, 2020

Blackpowderduelist said:

If we went back to them we would have to built temples and talk a race of people into using them as they did the destroyed ones, then kill animals for the blood that represented Christ who does not need representing because Christ came to us. To learn of these shadows is not returning to them.

Gardenias · Dec 6, 2020

throughfaith said:

Mathew 24 is definitely referring to the " kingdom message " and to sabbath observers.
3¶And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4¶And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9¶Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

(Mark 13:14–23; Luke 17:23, 24, 37; 21:20–24 )
15¶When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23¶Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25Behold, I have told you before.

26¶Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

(Mark 13:24–27; Luke 21:25–28 )
29¶Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

I like the way youve put it in order, I just disagree in your opinion as to whom it is adressed.
I know YOU think the gospels should be included in the OT,and that to whom something is addressed is MORE IMPORTANT than the messages!

throughfaith · Dec 6, 2020

Gardenias said:

I would see the new testament beginning with the death of Christ. And that it is important to understand what the message is and to whom.

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 6, 2020

If "the Church which is His body" has experienced "THE DEPARTURE *FIRST*" before that time-period can be in play (to unfold upon the earth, over the course of some time), then the rest of what unfolds DOES NOT PERTAIN to us (because we will not be present on the earth during that time-frame

).

This is exactly what Paul is conveying.

Exactly.

We are told we should "correctly apportion the word of truth"... not merely blur it all together into one big mish-mash of mush.

safswan · Dec 12, 2020

It is very important that we consider who is being addressed in any passage of scripture.In Matthew 24 and parallel passages in Mark and Luke it is clear that Jesus' message was not to the nation of Israel but to His disciples who are the foundation of the Church.[Ephesians 2:20]He warned them of the dangers the disciples would encounter and also told them what would happen to Israel as well.Hence "you" is used to refer to the disciples and "they" is used of Israel.N.B.:

Matthew 24:
9Then shall THEY deliver YOU up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Mark 13:
9But take heed to yourselves: for THEY shall deliver YOU up to councils; and in the synagogues yeshall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

Luke 21:
12But before all these, THEY shall lay their hands on YOU, and persecute YOU, delivering YOU up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

It is clear that Jesus is telling His disciples what to look out for in the years to come after His departure.This must include the time when the distinction between the Church and Israel would be very clear.Unless like some you believe all of Matthew 24 was accomplished in the past,then the message to the disciples would be relevant to all Christians and is what the apostles would have taught the Church.N.B.

Matthew 24:
26Wherefore if THEY shall say unto YOU, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and THEY shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

This is what the apostles would have taught the Church,warning them to take heed that false prophets and false christs would not decieve them and then telling them of the manner of coming of the Lord for them the elect.Those described as "they" in this passage would include all unbelievers.

Other parts of the passage describe what would happen to the inhabitants of Jerusalem at the time of its destruction.

Luke 21:
20And when YE shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23But woe unto THEM that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon THIS PEOPLE.
24And THEY shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and JERUSALEM shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

See also:Matthew 24:15-22

The Church and those who may follow them would escape from Jerusalem by following Jesus' instructions,while the unbelieving Israel would suffer the vengeance.History shows that this is exactly what happened as the Church fled to a place called Pella and escaped the siege of Jerusalem.

safswan.

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 12, 2020

safswan said:

Do you believe that while Jesus was on the earth (in His earthly ministry BEFORE the Cross), that He had the ability to "prophesy"?

"For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. " Acts 3:22 (where Peter [AFTER the Cross] is speaking of Jesus' ministry BEFORE the Cross/His DEATH... and is speaking specifically to "ye men of Israel," v.12, who were as-yet-still-unsaved-persons, vv.13-15,17,19)

[so when I ask, "Do you believe that while Jesus was on the earth (in His earthly ministry BEFORE the Cross ^^^ ), that He had the ability to "prophesy"?," I'm asking, do you believe He had the ability to "prophesy" of things which would take place FOLLOWING "our Rapture"?... which would make the "ye/you" in the Olivet Discourse be speaking of the BELIEVING remnant of Israel who will have come to faith IN/DURING/WITHIN the trib yrs, FOLLOWING "our Departure/Rapture"... and who will THEN be THE ONES who WILL BE "leading the charge," so to speak]

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 12, 2020

^ [re: a recurring phrase in Scripture] "in the place which he shall choose to place his name there"

[Consider... that AFTER "our Rapture/THE Departure," there will exist another 7 years that will unfold upon the earth, but will exist with OUR ABSENCE!! so... think about the fact that "temple" (which Paul calls US , WITHOUT a "definite article ['THE'] before it) will not be existing on the earth, during that 7-yr time period... THINK about this]

Heb9:8-9a "8 The Holy Spirit this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle [the one in the wilderness, per the "furnishings" in vv.3-4] yet having A STANDING [/stasis / stasin - G4714]: 9 Which is a PARABLE for the present time... "

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 12, 2020

^^^ "apo stasis" = "apo stasia" ['a STANDING away [from a previous STANDING]'] ^^^

"apostasia - LATER FORM FOR apostasis" (Liddell and Scott Greek-English Lexicon)

safswan · Dec 12, 2020

TheDivineWatermark said:

Remember the questions that were asked and consider who asked them:

Matthew 24:
1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 12, 2020

safswan said:

I addressed that very issue just an hour ago, in another thread:

https://christianchat.com/threads/t...lessed-hope-of-the-saints.195611/post-4439192

Again... keep in mind, that their Q of Him in Matt24:3 was BASED ON what He had ALREADY spoken to them about in Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 (when the angels will "REAP" [not a "Rapture" context!]); not what He had NOT YET spoken with them about.

[up to and INCLUDING throughout His entire Olivet Discourse, He had not yet spoken to them ANYTHING about the Subject of "our Rapture"]

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 12, 2020

Note the distinction between the following:

--"[...], inherit the kingdom HAVING BEEN PREPARED for you FROM [G575 apo (not "BEFORE [pro - G4253]" as is used of OTHERS elsewhere!)] the foundation of the world."

[...is NOT the same thing as saying...]

--"I GO TO PREPARE a place for you..."

How do you explain this? (My viewpoint explains this with no problems whatsoever.)

Pilgrimshope · Dec 13, 2020

.[/QUOTE]

Amen great read thanks for taking the time to be thorough I love a good thorough presentation of an idea Totally agree with your conclusion

I believe it to be satans oldest method to Convince any person that what God has said about things isn’t meant for them to believe,

“ it might be true he will say , but that’s not meant for you to believe instead , listen to what I’ll explain to you that’s totally different than what he said to those others “

he’s pretty clever so he doesn’t say to a believer “ God lied “ he says “ surely that doesn’t apply to you listen to
Me “ then tells people mis information to lead them astray like he did eve and Adam

it’s really all satan can do is convince us that what God said isnt true or doesn’t apply . Because if we believe him we will live and be saved . It’s different from convincing one that God lied or is wrong in that it has the same effect

if we think it’s not true , we won’t believe and follow it , if we believe it’s true but isn’t for us , then we won’t believe and follow it . He does that with every subject of importance

if we learn to build our thinking from christs teachings we will know the truth

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 13, 2020

TheDivineWatermark said:

^ to add to this part ^...

[quoting old post]

Wm Kelly on Hebrews 9:8-9 (top paragraph ^) -

"for the tabernacle in the wilderness is before the writer, not the temple: so we saw in Heb. 3, 4, and so it is here and throughout. This is evident in the early verses of the chapter, summed up in "these things having been thus formed" or prepared, not only the tabernacle but its furniture; which differed in some essential respects from the temple, for it [the temple] was the figure of the millennial kingdom and rest, as the tabernacle is of the resources of grace in Christ for the wilderness and its pilgrimage [i.e. "the Church which is His body" in this present age (singular)]. Hence the ark when set in the [later] temple had neither the golden pot with manna therein nor Aaron's rod that budded (2 Chronicles 5:10), which we find carefully named in verse 4. With such wisdom markedly divine was the scripture inspired in the O.T. as in the N.T."

--William Kelly, Commentary on Hebrews 9

[end quoting; source: Bible Hub; bold and underline mine; bracketed comments mine]

[and]

Notice...

Hebrews 9:4 -

--the golden pot with manna (Exodus 16:32,33; "an omer"... "manna"... "bread"... "lay up"... "to be kept")

--Aaron's rod that budded (Numbers 17:8:10; "sprouted/fly"... "bore/wean/ripen"..."almonds [from 'watch/wake'], "[almond (tree)] so called from its EARLY waking out of winter's sleep" !!!]...notice v.5's "choose/elect"... "blossom/fly/esp 'fly away' [like bird, insect; also used in Ezek13:20 [2x] referring to DELIVERANCE!! " (see below)]

Ezekiel 13:20 (often used to mean the OPPOSITE; really means THIS...) -

"20 Therefore, this is what the Lord GOD says: See, I am against the magic charms with which you ensnare souls/lives like birds [same word as in Num17:8 - H6524], and I will tear them from your arms. I will free the souls/lives you have ensnared [same word as in Num17:8 - H6524 (see below, in the esv)] . 21 I will also tear off your veils and deliver My people from your hands, so that they will no longer be prey in your hands. Then you will know that I am the LORD.
"22 Because you have disheartened the righteous with your lies, even though I have caused them no grief, and because you have encouraged the wicked not to turn from their evil ways to save their lives, 23 therefore you will no longer see false visions or practice divination. I will deliver My people from your hands. Then you will know that I am the LORD.” "

Or, v.20 in the esv -

"“Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I am against your magic bands with which you hunt the souls like birds [H6524], and I will tear them from your arms, and I will let the souls whom you hunt go free, the souls like birds [H6524]."

or in the ylt
Young's Literal Translation -
"Therefore, thus said the Lord Jehovah: Lo, I am against your pillows, With which ye are hunting there the souls of the flourishing, And I have rent them from off your arms, And have sent away the souls that ye are hunting, The souls of the flourishing. And I have torn your kerchiefs, And delivered My people out of your hand, And they are no more in your hand for a prey, And ye have known that I am Jehovah. [...] Therefore, vanity ye do not see, And divination ye do not divine again, And I have delivered My people out of your hand, And ye have known that I am Jehovah!'"

[note: this is not to say that these verses speak of "our Rapture," just that they do not speak AGAINST the idea of "our Rapture [particularly a 'pre-trib rapture']" as many try to SUGGEST it means!

]

[end quoting old post... except for that last bracketed comment I inserted = ) ]

Who Is Matt 24 Addressed To?

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