Who is Elihu?

[UnoiAmarah]

The only one not rebuked by God in the book of Job is Elihu.

You might have something there, the LORD did chastise Job but then again it is written, For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth....Heb 12:6

And the LORD did correct Job's three friends--
The LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.
But then again, For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth. Prov 3:12

And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? Job 2:3

2 Thess 2:8

 

[posthuman]

I went back and looked, and you definitely associated the sons of God in Job 1-2 with the sons of God in Genesis 6 which you clearly referred unto as nephilim.

While you say "clearly angels" but by angels you mean in the sense of Jude :1 6 "the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

You even stated in this thread that "the book of Job is a historically much older book, a time period long before Elijah and written way before Genesis was. so in a time sense, the earliest mention of a whirlwind in all scripture." If written prior to Genesis then the sons of God in the book of Job would by default be the sons of God in Genesis 6.

you seem to be misunderstanding what i put 3 years ago here https://christianchat.com/bookmarks/confirm?content_type=post&content_id=4806158

not saying the nephilim are the sons of God. saying that the nephilim are the product of the angels and human women - that sons of God refers to angels in both Genesis and Job.

quite a bit of digging you did to quote-mine me erroneously, lol

 

[posthuman]

While you say "clearly angels" but by angels you mean in the sense of Jude :1 6 "the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

100% consistent with the angels being who sons of God refers to both in Job 1-2 and Genesis 6

 

[posthuman]

You even stated in this thread that "the book of Job is a historically much older book, a time period long before Elijah and written way before Genesis was. so in a time sense, the earliest mention of a whirlwind in all scripture." If written prior to Genesis then the sons of God in the book of Job would by default be the sons of God in Genesis 6.

exactly my point.
angels, not nephilim.

 

[christophernyc]

which brings up an obvious question no one has asked:

in Job 38:1 rather suddenly God speaks "out of the whirlwind"

wait wut?

what whirlwind?
since when has there been a whirlwind?
how long has the whirlwind been there?
there is no mention of it approaching - has it been with Job the entire time?
elephant in the room?

did any of you read this for the first time and honestly think, oh yeah obviously the whirlwind????

this is only the second mention of a whirlwind in the entire Bible.
the first is 2 Kings 2, Elijah ((note the super similar name)) being taken up to heaven in a whirlwind - - and John b is a historically much older book, a time period long before Elijah and written way before Genesis was. so in a time sense, the earliest mention of a whirlwind in all scripture.

This is a great observation and question! While not mentioned previously, this has definitely been considered!

In analyzing Elihu's speeches, you may notice a shift in his tone in chapter 37. That's another conversation, but let's look at the details in his words there:

1At this also my heart trembleth, and is moved out of his place.
2Hear attentively the noise of his voice, and the sound that goeth out of his mouth.
3He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth.
4After it a voice roareth: he thundereth with the voice of his excellency; and he will not stay them when his voice is heard.
5God thundereth marvellously with his voice; great things doeth he, which we cannot comprehend.
6For he saith to the snow, Be thou on the earth; likewise to the small rain, and to the great rain of his strength.
7He sealeth up the hand of every man; that all men may know his work.
8Then the beasts go into dens, and remain in their places.
9Out of the south cometh the whirlwind: and cold out of the north.

Look at all of the references to weather here. Elihu sees a storm approaching - and he is terrified. In light of previous commentary, consider why.

 

[posthuman]

Look at all of the references to weather here. Elihu sees a storm approaching - and he is terrified. In light of previous commentary, consider why.

terrified?
in the middle of praising God, he praises Him all the more as a storm brews.

an object lesson for those listening, consistent with what he is advising them to do. instead of complaining or seeking to assign blame, he just praises God continually.

 

[christophernyc]

This Musical Interlude was brought to you courtesy of the B(each) Boys

Thanks for bringing levity to our intense discussion! Always needed, and I believe all of us have made typos or errors. I know I have.

 

[christophernyc]

terrified?
in the middle of praising God, he praises Him all the more as a storm brews.

an object lesson for those listening, consistent with what he is advising them to do. instead of complaining or seeking to assign blame, he just praises God continually.

Consider James 2:19, "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

Others have also pointed out that the book of James in the NT is a kind of companion book to the Book of Job. Reading James in light of the story of Job I found to be quite helpful and insightful. James mentions Job specifically, and there is a strong theme of suffering and being faithful in the midst of trials.

 

[Magenta]

Thanks for bringing levity to our intense discussion! Always needed, and I believe all of us have made typos or errors. I know I have.

Thank you also for not minding me being playful!

You Are Welcome! God Bless You

 

[ZNP]

Consider James 2:19, "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

Others have also pointed out that the book of James in the NT is a kind of companion book to the Book of Job. Reading James in light of the story of Job I found to be quite helpful and insightful. James mentions Job specifically, and there is a strong theme of suffering and being faithful in the midst of trials.

Believing God is not a test, Christians and Satanists both believe in God. This does not in any way support a conclusion about Elihu one way or the other, except that he obviously is not an atheist.

 

[posthuman]

Look at all of the references to weather here. Elihu sees a storm approaching - and he is terrified.

Job 37:1-2​

At this also my heart trembles, And leaps from its place. Hear attentively the thunder of His voice, And the rumbling [that] comes from His mouth.​

he's not terrified.

he isn't running from the sound of God's voice, but towards it - he says listen attentively, not flee.

this reads as though his heart leaps from its place because he loves the LORD and the sound of His appearing

 

[christophernyc]

Job 37:1-2​

At this also my heart trembles, And leaps from its place. Hear attentively the thunder of His voice, And the rumbling [that] comes from His mouth.​

he's not terrified.

he isn't running from the sound of God's voice, but towards it - he says listen attentively, not flee.

this reads as though his heart leaps from its place because he loves the LORD and the sound of His appearing

He says his heart trembles. Also, the approaching whirlwind is inescapable, so there is no reason for him to suggest running to it or away from it.

Consider, too, Luke 4:33,34, "And in the synagogue there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil, and cried out with a loud voice, Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God."

Those words that Jesus is the Holy One of God are true, but I don't think they were said in a spirit of praise to the Lord. I would guess this man was also trembling here in this scene.

On another note, it is interesting the eagerness of some to prop up Elihu and extol him as some great character in this story. At the same time, what I have seen is that those who take this position tend to give essentially no credit to Job, or worse, show contempt for him. Yet Job is the one enduring unimaginable suffering and ends up enduring his trial faithfully. This, as we know, proves satan is a liar based on his claims in chapters 1 & 2 about Job cursing God.

So the praise that is due to Job is somehow given to Elihu, and the criticism belonging to Elihu gets applied to Job. Totally backwards.

 

[posthuman]

On another note, it is interesting the eagerness of some to prop up Elihu and extol him as some great character in this story.

i find it interesting how fertively you grasp at straws to find some way to condemn him, while scripture does not.

 

[posthuman]

the praise that is due to Job is somehow given to Elihu

this thread is about Elihu, not about Job.

same reason i haven't been saying nice things about Hosea in this thread.

 

[posthuman]

perhaps we should just simply ask this question:

when troubled times come in your life, is it righteous to complain about how God is treating you?

yes or no?

 

[posthuman]

i find it interesting how fertively you grasp at straws to find some way to condemn him, while scripture does not.

 

[christophernyc]

The bottom line is that God rebukes Job, and once Job is reconciled to God He rebukes the three friends. The only one not rebuked by God in the book of Job is Elihu.

Neither is Elihu praised by God either, so that logic falls apart quickly. Compare that to the explicit affirmation God gives to Job both at the beginning of the story in chapters 1 & 2, and then again at the end in chapter 42:7,8.

Also, where does it say that God rebukes Job? We see God asking Job many questions, but where is the rebuke exactly?

i find it interesting how fertively you grasp at straws to find some way to condemn him, while scripture does not.

It was mentioned before, but the way Elihu enters the story should be a surprise to the reader. Again, it seems to be by design to cause the reader to wrestle with understanding his character and his role in the story. Many see his character is mysterious, and readers must make up their mind one way or another about him. After looking very closely at him, analyzing his words and considering him in the full context of the story, I drew my conclusion.

I don't think we should just take Elihu at face value. That may be the easier thinking, but that does not seem wise. 1 John 4:1 tells us to test the spirits to see whether they are of God. For a character like Elihu who makes so many claims about speaking for God, he definitely needs to be tested, not just believed outright. Otherwise there is a danger of being deceived.

By the way, neither does Scripture affirm him either, so again that logic falls apart quickly. Compare that with Job who is expressly affirmed by God in the beginning and the ending of the story. I don't think you're in that camp, but some are ready to condemn Job despite what Scripture explicitly says about him.

 

[ZNP]

Neither is Elihu praised by God either, so that logic falls apart quickly.

That wasn't a logical argument, it was a fact. Everything else you say has no bearing on the validity of that fact.

Compare that to the explicit affirmation God gives to Job both at the beginning of the story in chapters 1 & 2, and then again at the end in chapter 42:7,8.

Also, where does it say that God rebukes Job? We see God asking Job many questions, but where is the rebuke exactly?

Job 40:1 Moreover the Lord answered Job, and said, 2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it. 3 Then Job answered the Lord, and said, 4 Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth. 5 Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further. 6 Then answered the Lord unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said, 7 Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. 8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

Job is rebuked for trying to disannul God's judgment. Job is rebuked for trying to condemn God so that he might be righteous.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

you seem to be misunderstanding what i put 3 years ago here https://christianchat.com/bookmarks/confirm?content_type=post&content_id=4806158

Oh, so I can't say what your words meant but Elihu can say what Job's words meant. As I stated in my comment, if you weren't calling the "sons of God" referenced in Genesis 6:2 as being fallen angels then I apologize.

If you weren't saying that the sons of God in Genesis 6:2 were not fallen angels then why did you allude to Jude 1:6 in the your comment that I quoted.

"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." Jude 6

If you don't think that the sons of God referenced in Genesis 6:2 are fallen angels then just say that you don't think they aren't fallen angels.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

Job is rebuked for trying to disannul God's judgment. Job is rebuked for trying to condemn God so that he might be righteous.

If you don't comprehend that the LORD answered Job, was the LORD asking who it was that was "speaking words without knowledge?" then it would be easy to miss the implication that the LORD was inferring it was Elihu if you have never read, "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Elihu had said to Job, "Hearken unto this, O Job: stand still, and consider the wondrous works of God.
Do you know when God made them, and caused the light of his cloud to shine?

The LORD was asking Elihu where he was "when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding."

When Elihu didn't answer, it is written "Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said, Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproved God, let him answer it. Moreover infers by implication that the person who was asked the first question was be addressed again.

When Job answered the LORD, it is written "Then answered the LORD unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said". it is inferred by implication that is when the question that followed was being asked of Job.