Where does the justification for The New Testament doers of the law in Romans 2:13 originate from?

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Soyeong

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#262
John146 said:
Man cannot be justified by the works of the law. Justification before God can only come from the faith of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the only one who was completely obedient to, not only the law, but also to the will of his Father.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
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God's law is God's word and Jesus is God's word made flesh, so it is contradictory to think that we are justified by faith in God's word made flesh, but not in God's word. God is trustworthy, therefore His instructions are also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust God is by obediently trusting His instructions and it is contradictory for someone to think that we should trust God, but not His instructions. While Jesus was the only one who lived in sinless obedience to God's law, he was far from the only doer of it. There are many examples of people who were doers of the law, such as those in Joshua 22:1-3, Luke 1:5-6, Revelation 14:12, and Revelation 22:14. While we do not earn our justification as the result of having first obeyed God's instructions, it is nevertheless also true that only the doers of God's instructions will be justified.
 
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Soyeong

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Cameron143 said:
I appreciate your concern for me. But I realize I cannot keep the law of God at the standard He has set. So I satisfy myself that Jesus living in me can and walk in the Spirit.
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In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, it says that God's law is not too difficult for us keep and that keeping it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! Moreover Romans 10:5-8 references Deuteronomy 30:11-20 as the word of faith that we proclaim, so we can keep the Law of God according to the standard that He has set, which is not different than him living in us and walking in the Spirit.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Soyeong said:
Under the Mosaic Covenant, we should love ourselves as God loves us, so that is also how we should love our neighbors, and that is not different under the New Covenant.
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You miss the point. Under Moses, your best was acceptable. Under Christ, His best is acceptable. That's why we were made partakers of the divine nature and indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Welcome to the new covenant.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Soyeong said:
In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, it says that God's law is not too difficult for us keep and that keeping it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! Moreover Romans 10:5-8 references Deuteronomy 30:11-20 as the word of faith that we proclaim, so we can keep the Law of God according to the standard that He has set, which is not different than him living in us and walking in the Spirit.
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Keep telling yourself that. New wine, old wineskin.
Read Hebrews...Christ is greater than Moses.
 
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Soyeong

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Cameron143 said:
You miss the point. Under Moses, your best was acceptable. Under Christ, His best is acceptable. That's why we were made partakers of the divine nature and indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Welcome to the new covenant.
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I saw your point, it's just incorrect. It is contradictory to think that relying on what God has instructed is doing our best.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Soyeong said:
I saw your point, it's just incorrect. It is contradictory to think that relying on what God has instructed is doing our best.
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Did you circumcise your heart?

Circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code.

Deuteronomy 30:6~ The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love Him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live. :)
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Soyeong said:
I saw your point, it's just incorrect. It is contradictory to think that relying on what God has instructed is doing our best.
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It's not wrong. Come live under the new covenant and live.
 
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Gideon300

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Mar 18, 2021
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Soyeong said:
Please quote where God said that.
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"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8
"Everyone committing sin also commits lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness" 1 John 3:4 literal translation.
 
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Soyeong

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Cameron143 said:
Keep telling yourself that. New wine, old wineskin.
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Your blatant disregard for the context of that parable is noted.

Read Hebrews...Christ is greater than Moses.
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Indeed, while Christ is greater than Moses, then same God who gave the law to Moses also sent Jesus in fulfillment of the promise to lead us to obey in accordance with spreading the Gospel.

Cameron143 said:
It's not wrong. Come live under the new covenant and live.
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It is wrong, just was fulfilling the law by teaching how to correctly obey it, not sinning by making changes to it. In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so I have been speaking about how to live under the New Covenant.
 
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Soyeong

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Magenta said:
Did you circumcise your heart?

Circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code.

Deuteronomy 30:6~ The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love Him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.:)
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It Deuteronomy 10:12-16, it instructs to circumcise our hearts and obey the Mosaic Law. In Deuteronomy 30:1-10, it prophesies about a time when the Israelites would return from exile, God would circumcise their hearts, and they would return to obedience to the Mosaic Law. In Ezekiel 36:26-27 and Jeremiah 31:33, they are speaking in regard to the New Covenant, the Israelites returning from exile, God circumcising their hears by means of the Spirit, and retuning to obedience to the Mosaic Law, where God will take away our hearts of stone, give us hearts of flesh, and send His Spirit to lead us in obedience to the Mosaic Law, and where He will put the Mosaic Law in our minds and write it on our hearts. In Romans 2:25-29, the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to the Mosaic Law, which is the same way to tell for a Jew, and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrast with Acts 7:51-53, where those who have uncircumcised hearts resist the Spirit and do not obey the Mosaic Law. So the New Covenant is all about the Israelites returning to obedience to the Mosaic Law and having a circumcise heart does not refer to anything other than them living in obedience to it.
 
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Soyeong

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Gideon300 said:
"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8
"Everyone committing sin also commits lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness" 1 John 3:4 literal translation.
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Claiming to. be a doer of the law is not claiming to be without sin. There are many examples in the Bible of people who were doers of the law, such as in Joshua 22:1-3, Luke 1:5-6, Revelation 14:12, and Revelation 22:14, though only Jesus was without sin. The law itself came with instructions for what to do when the people sinned, so it did not require people to be without sin. Repentance does not change the fact that we have not had perfect obedience, so the fact that we can repent after we have sinned and still be saved without having had perfect obedience again demonstrates that we do not need to have perfect obedience. In Deuteronomy 30:11-20 it says that God's law is not too difficult to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! So it was presented as a possibility and as a choice, not as the need to be without sin, moreover, Romans 10:5-8 references Deuteronomy 30:11-20 as the word of faith that we proclaim.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Soyeong said:
Your blatant disregard for the context of that parable is noted.


Indeed, while Christ is greater than Moses, then same God who gave the law to Moses also sent Jesus in fulfillment of the promise to lead us to obey in accordance with spreading the Gospel.


It is wrong, just was fulfilling the law by teaching how to correctly obey it, not sinning by making changes to it. In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so I have been speaking about how to live under the New Covenant.
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Under Moses, the law was to love your neighbor as yourself. This was possible for everyone by their own endeavor. But Jesus gave a new commandment...love one another as I have loved you. This is not possible through personal effort. This requires Christ living in you. Big difference.
The old covenant is a failed paradigm. God isn't winking as in times past. The new covenant is the real deal.
And the parable fits perfectly for those trying to pour the new covenant into old covenant wineskins...it keeps bursting your bubble.
 
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Gideon300

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Mar 18, 2021
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Soyeong said:
Claiming to. be a doer of the law is not claiming to be without sin. There are many examples in the Bible of people who were doers of the law, such as in Joshua 22:1-3, Luke 1:5-6, Revelation 14:12, and Revelation 22:14, though only Jesus was without sin. The law itself came with instructions for what to do when the people sinned, so it did not require people to be without sin. Repentance does not change the fact that we have not had perfect obedience, so the fact that we can repent after we have sinned and still be saved without having had perfect obedience again demonstrates that we do not need to have perfect obedience. In Deuteronomy 30:11-20 it says that God's law is not too difficult to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! So it was presented as a possibility and as a choice, not as the need to be without sin, moreover, Romans 10:5-8 references Deuteronomy 30:11-20 as the word of faith that we proclaim.
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I am sure that I was responding to someone else, not you.

I'm under the law myself, but it is not the 613 rules given to the people of Israel. I am under the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. He sets me free from the law of sin and death. The letter kills, the Spirit gives life.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Soyeong said:
It Deuteronomy 10:12-16, it instructs to circumcise our hearts and obey the Mosaic Law. In Deuteronomy 30:1-10, it prophesies about a time when the Israelites would return from exile, God would circumcise their hearts, and they would return to obedience to the Mosaic Law. In Ezekiel 36:26-27 and Jeremiah 31:33, they are speaking in regard to the New Covenant, the Israelites returning from exile, God circumcising their hears by means of the Spirit, and retuning to obedience to the Mosaic Law, where God will take away our hearts of stone, give us hearts of flesh, and send His Spirit to lead us in obedience to the Mosaic Law, and where He will put the Mosaic Law in our minds and write it on our hearts. In Romans 2:25-29, the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to the Mosaic Law, which is the same way to tell for a Jew, and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrast with Acts 7:51-53, where those who have uncircumcised hearts resist the Spirit and do not obey the Mosaic Law. So the New Covenant is all about the Israelites returning to obedience to the Mosaic Law and having a circumcise heart does not refer to anything other than them living in obedience to it.
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You mention the Mosaic law a lot. What do you mean by it? 10 commandments? Or 613 Mitzvot?
 
Thunderrr-mental

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Dec 18, 2023
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NotmebutHim said:
Repeating a phrase doesn't explain your viewpoint.
Repeating a phrase doesn't explain your viewpoint.
Repeating a phrase doesn't explain your viewpoint.
Repeating a phrase doesn't explain your viewpoint.
Repeating a phrase doesn't explain your viewpoint.
Repeating a phrase doesn't explain your viewpoint.
Repeating a phrase doesn't explain your viewpoint.
Repeating a phrase doesn't explain your viewpoint.
Repeating a phrase doesn't explain your viewpoint.
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It does with me I have a tendency to think I should be overly unique.

You may have to repeat this a 1000 times a day to me 😋. It would be the only way to stop me going OCD

The bible is full of wash rinse and repeats, lol I just wished I had discovered it sooner, I could have prevented my self from joining an unclean camp.
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

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Dec 18, 2023
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I was also a slow learner so I now thank the lord for repeaters I might even buy a parrot and train it to say God bless you 🙂

It's what I need,
 
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