Where does the justification for The New Testament doers of the law in Romans 2:13 originate from?

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Nehemiah6 said:
Actually that is an IRONIC statement.
...whosoever have sinned in the law, shall be judged by the law. 13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified...

1. This is a reference to Jews who were under the Law until the New Covenant went into effect.

2. The entire Law of Moses would apply to them, which means that any violation of any of the laws would mean that "the doer of the Law" was not in 100% compliance.

3. The Law demands 100% compliance for anyone to be "justified" by the Law, which is impossible for anyone.

4. Regardless of how hard someone might try to be "justified" by the Law, God says that justification is by grace through faith PLUS NOTHING.

5. Which also means that those who seek to be saved by the works of the Law are simply deluding themselves. This is really what Paul was teaching. Yet there are Judaizers among us who simply do not understand justification by grace through faith PLUS NOTHING.
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Romans 2:11-15
11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For whosoever have sinned without the law, shall perish without the law; and whosoever have sinned in the law, shall be judged by the law. 13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, who have not the law, do by nature those things that are of the law; these having not the law are a law to themselves: 15 Who shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness to them, and their thoughts between themselves accusing, or also defending one another,
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Thunderrr-mental said:
I hope to, I'm hoping me and @NightTwister can twist the night away and dance, I never ment to hurt his feelings when I said hed been suckered 🤔.
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No hurt feelings. It's an online forum. There are no "feelings."
I think he thinks I was calling him a sucker, oops my apologies.
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Sock puppets don't bother me.
He got his own back last night tho 😋.
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We need better trolls around here.
 
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Mem said:
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Funny!.... When the video finished, Oliver Anthony was suggested. Rich men north of Richmond. Good song! But there is a line in his song which is very relatable.

Liven in a new world with an old soul.
 
HumbleBee said:
Who are The New Testament doers of the law in Romans 2:13 who shall be justified?
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Paul said we do not void out the law through faith, but we establish the law which means live up to the law.

Which the law is spiritual, holy, just, and good, which are the laws of love, moral laws.

Which the 2 greatest laws are love God, and love people, which love is the fulfilling of the law.

The 10 commandments are laws of love towards God, and people, so they are always to be obeyed, and of course because we confess our sin, and turn away from sin.

The people who obey the laws of love towards people are the people who are right for salvation.

That is why Jesus told the rich man to obey the laws concerning loving people, and he said he did that but He said he lacked one thing which is to sell all he has and give to the poor and then he can inherit salvation.

There are millions of people that are not doers of the law but hold on to worldliness loving the things of the world, and money, and material things which is not love, but they say they are saved by faith so they slack and hold on to sin believing they cannot fall.
 
Repeating a phrase doesn't explain your viewpoint.
Repeating a phrase doesn't explain your viewpoint.
Repeating a phrase doesn't explain your viewpoint.
Repeating a phrase doesn't explain your viewpoint.
Repeating a phrase doesn't explain your viewpoint.
Repeating a phrase doesn't explain your viewpoint.
Repeating a phrase doesn't explain your viewpoint.
Repeating a phrase doesn't explain your viewpoint.
Repeating a phrase doesn't explain your viewpoint.
 
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Kroogz said:
The Lord Jesus Christ.
The Law requires perfection in order to be justified through it.

All gentiles have sinned, even without the law.
All Jews have sinned with the law.

So both classes are EMPTY of justified people.

So Paul gave a zinger to the self righteous Jew. "The doers of the law shall be justified." The law requires perfection. Even the self righteous know they failed at some point. And Paul goes on to point it out in the verses ahead.
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Good reply.. But those who are fixated on preaching works salvation will lock onto one verse and base their whole theology on that one verse that to them backs up their works salvation mindset and their rejection of the Atonement of the LORD Jesus..
 
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Cameron143 said:
Under the old covenant, obedience simply required the best you could do...love your neighbor as yourself. Under the new covenant, obedience requires an individual to love as Jesus loved...a new commandment have I given you; that you love one another as I have loved you.
A higher standard has been set and we are no longer able to meet this standard except as we walk in the Spirit. The only way to love others as Christ loves us is as He lives in and through us.
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Under the Mosaic Covenant, we should love ourselves as God loves us, so that is also how we should love our neighbors, and that is not different under the New Covenant.
 
Kroogz said:
It wouldn't be a wage. It would be perfection. And we could slide in right next to Christ on His throne.

Why do you add that little caveat "as a wage?"
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"As a wage" is connected to "earn" and the point is that it was never the case that we are the way to become righteous is the result of having first done works, but rather the only way to become righteous that is testified about in the Law and the Prophets is through faith in Christ (Romans 3:21-22).
 
turbosixx said:
I think I agree with you but not totally sure. When you talk about doer of the law, what law are you talking about and what law is Paul talking about?
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I don't see any grounds for interpreting Romans 2:13 as referring to something other than the Law of Moses.
 
Mem said:
Can you reconcile Acts 13:39 with those scripture you've asserted mean what you say they mean.

Through Him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.
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I denied that we can earn our justification even as the result of perfect obedience to the Law and Acts 13:39 denies that we can earn our justification as the result of obedience to the Law of Moses, so I'm not seeing what you think needs to be reconciled.

Mem said:
Acts 13:39


and Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
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All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to the Mosaic Law and even Christ began his ministry with that Gospel message, so it would be absurd to interpret Galatians 5:4 as Paul warning against doing that and saying that we will be cut off from Christ if we follow Christ. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, and it would be also be absurd to interpret this as him wanting God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to fall from grace.

Is God's word.
You're either trying to be justified by the law, and have fallen from grace, or you are justified from everything through Him, and believe.
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There can be any number of a reason for obeying the Mosaic Law other than in order to earn our justification as the result, especially because it was never given as a means of doing that, so that was never the reason why we should obey it. When someone obeys the Mosaic Law, the significance is not that is part of something that they are required to have done first in order to become justified, but that they are expressing their faith, and it is by that faith that we are justified. The Mosaic Law is God's word and Jesus is God's word made flesh, so he the embodiment of the Mosaic Law expressed by setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to it, so it is contradictory to think that we should have faith in God's word made flesh, but not in God's word.
 
Why is the truth so too easily distorted. I mean, so many people make a living out of that capability. Nonetheless, the common denominator that is employed to distort it is also very easily distinguished, and that is fear. So, wherever fear is present, buyer beware.

Fear separated the Israelites from God's presence, a fear masquerading as the fear of God, the one legitimate fear. I'd have to speculate awhile upon exactly what illegitimate fear separated them from His presence, in order to define it correctly, but I just know, call it intuitively, that it was not the actual fear of God.

Why did they not fear God so much as to say, when He said, 'come up,' to obey him but rather said, "we will not come up.'?
 
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