When are we saved ?

[OIC1965]

I'm yet to hear what you think Paul is trying to communicate to those at Ephesus ?

I’ve already answered that numerous times in the elect according to foreknowledge thread and here. I don’t feel like answering it again right now. Go up a few posts, I addressed it today in fact.

 

[OIC1965]

11¶Wherefore remember OIC1965 that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

STRANGERS !!!! HAVING NO HOPE !!!!

" oh but God chose me before I was born " He saw i would choose him . He determined i would be his love gift to ....STOP with the nonsense . STRANGERS !!!!!!! NO HOPE !!!!!!! WITHOUT !!!!! GOD . WAKEY WAKEY !!!!!

Which is first? Predestination or calling?

 

[OIC1965]

Predestination is of existing saints to future glorification/ Adoption. I realise this clashes with those indoctrinated with a more reformed theological systematic. In fact I realise this view comes as a bewildering concept when a person has only been subjected to either reformed perspectives . Calvinism and Arminsim. I often wonder if to some they only understand these two options.

ATTENTION. CRITICALLY IMPORTANT!!!

Romans 8: 29-30 puts predestination before calling and justification.
this negates. your predestining already existing saints argument pretty thoroughly

It says whom He predestinated, he called and justified. This puts predestination BEFORE faith, because justification is by faith.

 

[throughfaith]

It seems so. In fact, I recently posted a third option and was mocked for it. Apparently if you are able to harmonize Scripture in a way that does not align with mainstream thinking, it is believed you belong to some sect or cult. That happens a lot, as people are unable to look beyond the boxes they are in.

Its why some in church are afraid to ask questions..they don't want to say something ' unorthodox ' , something that might clash without what some so called giant of the faith taught that we should believe hundreds of years ago , or a confession that we cannot possibly call into question .

 

[OIC1965]

It seems so. In fact, I recently posted a third option and was mocked for it. Apparently if you are able to harmonize Scripture in a way that does not align with mainstream thinking, it is believed you belong to some sect or cult. That happens a lot, as people are unable to look beyond the boxes they are in.

Who mocked you?

 

[throughfaith]

ATTENTION. CRITICALLY IMPORTANT!!!

Romans 8: 29 puts predestination before calling and justification.
this negates. your predestining already existing saints argument pretty thoroughly

If your obsessed with it being

Which is first? Predestination or calling?

Ephesians 1.5
5HAVING predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Whens the adoption according to Romans 8.23? ..Which comes before Romans 8.29 .

 

[OIC1965]

It seems so. In fact, I recently posted a third option and was mocked for it. Apparently if you are able to harmonize Scripture in a way that does not align with mainstream thinking, it is believed you belong to some sect or cult. That happens a lot, as people are unable to look beyond the boxes they are in.

Predestination after salvation doesn’t work when you consider Romans 8:28-30.

 

[OIC1965]

If your obsessed with it being

Ephesians 1.5
5HAVING predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Whens the adoption according to Romans 8.23? ..Which comes before Romans 8.29 .

We’ve already discussed the present and future aspects of adoption numerous times

Even the video you posted stated that there is a present and future aspect of salvation. See 1 Peter 1:8-9

Adoption is part of salvation and the Bible speaks of it both having a present aspect and a future aspect,just as it says the same about salvation

There is also a present and future aspect to sanctification

We’ve gone over this at least five times.

 

[throughfaith]

We’ve already discussed the present and future aspects of adoption numerous times

Even the video you posted stated that there is a present and future aspect of salvation. See 1 Peter 1:8-9

Adoption is part of salvation and the Bible speaks of it both having a present aspect and a future aspect,just as it says the same about salvation

There is also a present and future aspect to sanctification

We’ve gone over this at least five times.

Where does it say we have a now and not yet physical adoption ?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Fortunately, he has explained that he did not mean two beings, and in the original post, he said he was referring to functions not being. Now I don’t agree with his distinguishing the meaning of The roles of Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost, but your claim that he said they were two seperate beings is mistaken.

I could say that Jesus existed as the unbegotten LOGOS before time and the Son of Man in time, but that’s not two different persons, that is different titles for different roles for the same person

I do not agree with the way Forest makes a distinction in meaning between Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit, but He did not say anything about seperate beings.

Thanks, OIC1965, it is clear in my mind, but how to describe in in words may be contributed to my age of 85, but I like to think not.

 

[throughfaith]

We’ve already discussed the present and future aspects of adoption numerous times

Even the video you posted stated that there is a present and future aspect of salvation. See 1 Peter 1:8-9

Adoption is part of salvation and the Bible speaks of it both having a present aspect and a future aspect,just as it says the same about salvation

There is also a present and future aspect to sanctification

We’ve gone over this at least five times.

Yes the redemption of the body which is the adoption, which we are predestined to is the final part of our salvation. Rom 13.11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Don't you think the comfort Paul is giving in Romans 8 is their predestination to their adoption . Don't you see Paul is revealing the amazing things that we have IN CHRIST especially as we formerly had NO HOPE and were strangers? That their future adoption is certain . Why? because of verse 5 . Then verses 13-14 . Choose a destination ahead of time . The Adoption . This is the basis for eternal security..

 

[throughfaith]

We’ve already discussed the present and future aspects of adoption numerous times

Even the video you posted stated that there is a present and future aspect of salvation. See 1 Peter 1:8-9

Adoption is part of salvation and the Bible speaks of it both having a present aspect and a future aspect,just as it says the same about salvation

There is also a present and future aspect to sanctification

We’ve gone over this at least five times.

Can you see that the Spirit OF adoption is not THE adoption ? Its the guarantee that the Adoption will take place. sealed until the day of Adoption. Eph 4.30 The Spirit of Adoption is not the redemption of the body .

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You know you are not a straight talker as @lenna has already come to discern as I have as well.

We had a member here @preacher4truth and he was a staunch in holding to the five tenets of this unbiblical dogma... also a fan of R.C. Sproul....

...at least I could respect he was "straight up" in what he believed.

Elect to you means foreordained, chosen... it means selected/chosen by God before the beginning of time.

I don't know if you recall, but preacher4truth singled me out to discredit my stand that the scriptures teach two different deliverances. One being eternal deliverance, and the other being a timely deliverance that we receive here in this world. Didn't the forum ban him?

 

[throughfaith]

I’ve already answered that numerous times in the elect according to foreknowledge thread and here. I don’t feel like answering it again right now. Go up a few posts, I addressed it today in fact.

So as i have said. I believe we are predestined after we believe which is in keeping with what that bible says about who saves . Jesus and being in him . This means my salvation was based on faith in the death , burial and resurrection for my sins according to the Scriptures. This is in keeping with Ephesians 1, 4- 14 and eph 2.11-12 where is clear that we were strangers from everything and without hope and without God .. I have my Adoption/ Glorification secure as good as done , because I am in Christ and all those in Christ are predestined to glorification ( Adoption)
You seem to believe you were predestined to conversion. Which means you were chosen outside of the death , burial and resurrection, before the fall , before you sinned , before faith , and before being in Chirst . I'm sticking to the bible on this one . Its about Jesus not us .

 

[EleventhHour]

I don't know if you recall, but preacher4truth singled me out to discredit my stand that the scriptures teach two different deliverances. One being eternal deliverance, and the other being a timely deliverance that we receive here in this world. Didn't the forum ban him?

I do remember the dialogue.
Not sure on his status, although his name is no longer on the drop down menu.

 

[Reborn]

It seems so. In fact, I recently posted a third option and was mocked for it. Apparently if you are able to harmonize Scripture in a way that does not align with mainstream thinking, it is believed you belong to some sect or cult. That happens a lot, as people are unable to look beyond the boxes they are in.

Well said, Maggie!

On posts like these —I wish could “like” it twice.
(Here’s an extra thumbs up )

 

[throughfaith]

Which is first? Predestination or calling?

If your predestination was to conversion than you have no predestination to glorification. This is why perseverance of the saints is practically works salvation.

 

[throughfaith]

I’ve already answered that numerous times in the elect according to foreknowledge thread and here. I don’t feel like answering it again right now. Go up a few posts, I addressed it today in fact.

oh yes the Jews according to the Foreknowledge of God verse .

 

[ForestGreenCook]

' teaching on election ' ? thats not something a serious bible student should say . Thats doctrine speak.

What's the matter with the doctrine of Christ?

 

[throughfaith]

What's the matter with the doctrine of Christ?

Nothing , unless you say the bible is teaching ' the doctrines of Christ ' .