What is the proof Jesus is eternally begotten son?

[SonJudgment]

If you think it is kind of mindblowing that Jesus is the eternally begotten Son of God even before he was begotten in the womb of the virgin Mary; then you're really going to have your mind blown when you find out that Jesus was also slain from the foundation of the world many thousands of years before even the crucifixion, the eternal Lamb of God sacrificed for the salvation of all believers.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

Well first you said there was no mention of the Word being "begotten" anywhere in the text of John 1. Quite forgiveable. Now that you know that there is, go back to verse 1 and 2 for the eternal part.

Having read your dialogue with @PaulThomson, I can see and say that you are misrepresenting him. He did not say that there was no mention of the Word being "begotten" anywhere in the text of John 1. Instead, he said that it was not mentioned in John 1:1-2 which is what you had quoted. You then told him to go read John 1:14, and he did, and he also gave you a proper interpretation of it.

Seemingly, you do not understand what Christ had to do in his humanity in order to make us joint-heirs with him. In John chapter 17, Jesus is heard praying this to the Father.

Jhn 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Before the world was, Jesus had glory with the Father because he was equal with God as one who is God himself (John 1:1).

Phl 2:5
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Phl 2:6
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phl 2:7
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Phl 2:8
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Phl 2:9
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Phl 2:10
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Phl 2:11
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

However, in his human form which he took upon himself during his incarnation, Jesus made himself of no reputation while taking upon himself the form of a servant, and, in his humanity, he no longer had the glory which he originally had with the Father before the world was. This is why he is seen praying to the Father while asking him to restore that original glory to him. When he was raised from the dead, or after he was begotten from the dead (Acts 13:33, Rev. 1:5), Jesus ascended back to the Father in heaven, and the Father crowned him with glory, or he restored his former glory to him.

Heb 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

During his incarnation, Jesus was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death. When he ascended back to heaven after his passion, the glory which he originally had as one who is God was restored to him, but now he had it as one who is both God and man. It is only because Jesus now how this glory as a man that he can share that glory with other human beings like you and me. Jesus continued his prayer in John chapter 17.

Jhn 17:22
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

When did the Father give Jesus this glory? He gave it to him when he ascended back to heaven as one who is both God and man. Because Jesus now has this glory as a man, he can give that glory to us. This is what John 1:14 is talking about.

Jhn 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

In other words, as @PaulThomson correctly said, John was talking about the glory that Jesus had post-resurrection, or the glory which the Father restored to him after he was begotten from the dead (Acts 13:33, Rev. 15). At that time, Jesus not only had his former glory restored to him as one who is both God and man, but he also was appointed heir of all things (Heb. 1:2). Whereas Jesus, in his divinity, was originally the maker of all things (John 1:3), in his humanity, he was appointed heir of all things. It is only because Jesus has been appointed heir of all things in his humanity that we can one day be joint-heirs with Christ (Rom. 8:17). Nowhere in scripture is Jesus called the eternally begotten Son. As I said in another response here, the term eternally begotten is a self-contradictory term. In his divinity, Jesus is eternal. In his humanity, he was begotten on the day in which he was raised from the dead (Acts 13:33, Rev. 1:5).

 

[SonJudgment]

Having read your dialogue with @PaulThomson, I can see and say that you are misrepresenting him. He did not say that there was no mention of the Word being "begotten" anywhere in the text of John 1. Instead, he said that it was not mentioned in John 1:1-2 which is what you had quoted. You then told him to go read John 1:14, and he did, and he also gave you a proper interpretation of it.

Seemingly, you do not understand what Christ had to do in his humanity in order to make us joint-heirs with him. In John chapter 17, Jesus is heard praying this to the Father.

Jhn 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Before the world was, Jesus had glory with the Father because he was equal with God as one who is God himself (John 1:1).

Phl 2:5
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Phl 2:6
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phl 2:7
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Phl 2:8
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Phl 2:9
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Phl 2:10
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Phl 2:11
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

However, in his human form which he took upon himself during his incarnation, Jesus made himself of no reputation while taking upon himself the form of a servant, and, in his humanity, he no longer had the glory which he originally had with the Father before the world was. This is why he is seen praying to the Father while asking him to restore that original glory to him. When he was raised from the dead, or after he was begotten from the dead (Acts 13:33, Rev. 1:5), Jesus ascended back to the Father in heaven, and the Father crowned him with glory, or he restored his former glory to him.

Heb 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

During his incarnation, Jesus was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death. When he ascended back to heaven after his passion, the glory which he originally had as one who is God was restored to him, but now he had it as one who is both God and man. It is only because Jesus now how this glory as a man that he can share that glory with other human beings like you and me. Jesus continued his prayer in John chapter 17.

Jhn 17:22
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

When did the Father give Jesus this glory? He gave it to him when he ascended back to heaven as one who is both God and man. Because Jesus now has this glory as a man, he can give that glory to us. This is what John 1:14 is talking about.

Jhn 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

In other words, as @PaulThomson correctly said, John was talking about the glory that Jesus had post-resurrection, or the glory which the Father restored to him after he was begotten from the dead (Acts 13:33, Rev. 15). At that time, Jesus not only had his former glory restored to him as one who is both God and man, but he also was appointed heir of all things (Heb. 1:2). Whereas Jesus, in his divinity, was originally the maker of all things (John 1:3), in his humanity, he was appointed heir of all things. It is only because Jesus has been appointed heir of all things in his humanity that we can one day be joint-heirs with Christ (Rom. 8:17). Nowhere in scripture is Jesus called the eternally begotten Son. As I said in another response here, the term eternally begotten is a self-contradictory term. In his divinity, Jesus is eternal. In his humanity, he was begotten on the day in which he was raised from the dead (Acts 13:33, Rev. 1:5).

Ah going from Arianism to modalism is like going from the frying pan into the fire. Jesus is both the eternally begotten Son of God and also eternally indwelling in the Father. Jesus is not the Father but is the Son. Yet there are not three gods, but one God. Love it or hate it the trinity doctrine is in fact true and will stand for eternity.

Genesis 1:1-3


1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

Ah going from Arianism to modalism is like going from the frying pan into the fire. Jesus is both the eternally begotten Son of God and also eternally indwelling in the Father. Jesus is not the Father but is the Son. Yet there are not three gods, but one God. Love it or hate it the trinity doctrine is in fact true and will stand for eternity.

Genesis 1:1-3


1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Ah, making things up, while putting words in other people's mouths, or while falsely accusing them, might truly land one in the fire. I never uttered a word about either Arianism or modalism. I fully believe in a triune Godhead or in a Trinity.

Do you want to address what I actually said? Nowhere in scripture are the words eternally begotten Son used in reference to Jesus or to anybody else. You have the entirety of scripture to prove otherwise, and neither you nor anybody else will ever be able to do so.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

What is the proof Jesus is eternally begotten son?

Begotten means born Jesus wasn’t actually born in the flesh or “ begotten “ until the proper time came for salvstion but he was foreordained from the beginning then later manifest to the world

“but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world,

but was manifest in these last times for you,”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:19-20‬ ‭

The term “ begotten “ is a reference to Jesus being born in the flesh he existed always but wasn’t begotten until it was time for salvstion . Even in the ot you can hear that it was coming in prophetic form like this

“I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, And the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, When his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭2:7-9, 12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

or this

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

at here was always a promise of the begotten son of God

“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭7:14‬ ‭

But it wasn’t fulfilled until Jesus was born or begotten

So prophecy and ordainment first and then fulfillment or manifestation of the begotten

“Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God always speaks forth what he’s going to do , before he does it

My point is the son was born when the Bible tells us he was but he existed always he is the creator of the world and everything in it , he just hadn’t come in the flesh and manifest the begotten son until the gospel

God always foretells and later manifests what he said

 

[SonJudgment]

Ah, making things up, while putting words in other people's mouths, or while falsely accusing them, might truly land one in the fire. I never uttered a word about either Arianism or modalism. I fully believe in a triune Godhead or in a Trinity.

Do you want to address what I actually said? Nowhere in scripture are the words eternally begotten Son used in reference to Jesus or to anybody else. You have the entirety of scripture to prove otherwise, and neither you nor anybody else will ever be able to do so.

Then you should understand pretty easily that Jesus is the eternally begotten Son of God. The only alternatives to this are Arianism, which is saying that Jesus is a created being, and modalism which says that Jesus is just another mode of God and confuses the Son with the Father. Funny enough both will get you guaranteed to the eternal hellfire.

Again John 1 is the principle chapter for Jesus being the eternally begotten Son. Since the verses are already posted I will not post them again.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

Yes, the divine nature of Jesus is eternal.

I agree.

The Trinity has no beginning and exists from eternity’s past.

I agree.

The Word (who is Jesus in the flesh) was always eternal as the second person in the Trinity.

I agree.

The name the Word has as in being called “the Son“ is most likely eternal, as well. John 3:17, Hebrews 1:8, and Psalms 45:6-7 are indirect evidences of this.

I disagree, and no, they are not.

Jhn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jhn 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

The context of John 3:17 is a conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus on our need to be born again, or on our need to inherit eternal life through belief or faith in Jesus. What is that belief or faith based upon? Is it based upon some unbiblical notion that Jesus was eternally begotten? No, it is not. Again, that terminology is self-contradictory. Instead, that belief or faith is based upon this.

Rom 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

In order to be saved, or in order to be born again, or in order to inherit eternal life, we must believe in our hearts that God has raised Jesus from the dead, and this is precisely what he did when Jesus was begotten from the dead (Acts 13:33, Rev. 1.5). In other words, not only are the words eternally begotten self-contradictory, but even if they were not, then nobody would be saved by believing that Jesus was allegedly God's eternally begotten Son. That notion is totally unbiblical.

Psa 45:6
Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
Psa 45:7
Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Heb 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Heb 1:9
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

In these portions of scripture, the Son is one who had to be anointed with the oil of gladness above his fellows, and this happened after Jesus had been resurrected or begotten from the dead (Acts 13:33, Rev. 1:5) or when he ascended back to heaven to be crowned with glory and honor (Psa. 8:5, Heb. 2:9). In other words, these verses are not talking about something from eternity past.

Even though Jesus was begotten (fathered - which for Him is the Incarnation) at one point in time, His name in being called the Son by the Father happened before the Incarnation.

Although the word begotten can be rightly interpreted in certain portions of scripture to mean fathered, that is not how it is used in scripture in relation to Jesus. In Jesus' case, it is used in reference to his resurrection from the dead.

Just ask yourself this simple question:

Seeing how we need to believe in the only begotten Son in order to be saved (John 3:16), is our salvation based upon us believing that Jesus was fathered by God either in eternity past or at his incarnation, or is our salvation based upon us believing that Jesus was raised or begotten from the dead (Acts 13:33, Rev. 1:5)?

I trust that you know the correct answer to this question.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

Then you should understand pretty easily that Jesus is the eternally begotten Son of God. The only alternatives to this are Arianism, which is saying that Jesus is a created being, and modalism which says that Jesus is just another mode of God and confuses the Son with the Father. Funny enough both will get you guaranteed to the eternal hellfire.

Again John 1 is the principle chapter for Jesus being the eternally begotten Son. Since the verses are already posted I will not post them again.

Those are not the only alternatives. Yes, Jesus existed from eternity past as God, but nothing in scripture states that Jesus existed as the eternally begotten Son of God. Instead, scripture not only states that Jesus was begotten on a specific day (Psa. 2:7), but it also tells us exactly what day that was (Acts 13:33), and it was the day in which God raised him from the dead.

Psa 2:7
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Act 13:32
And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
Act 13:33
God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

You will never be able to produce scriptural evidence to support your claim that Jesus is the eternally begotten Son of God because no such evidence exists.

Is Jesus eternal? Absolutely yes.

Is Jesus the eternally begotten Son of God? No. Instead, he was begotten on the day in which he was raised from the dead in perfect fulfillment of what God had promised in Psalm 2:7.

 

[SonJudgment]

Those are not the only alternatives. Yes, Jesus existed from eternity past as God, but nothing in scripture states that Jesus existed as the eternally begotten Son of God. Instead, scripture not only states that Jesus was begotten on a specific day (Psa. 2:7), but it also tells us exactly what day that was (Acts 13:33), and it was the day in which God raised him from the dead.

Psa 2:7
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Act 13:32
And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
Act 13:33
God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

You will never be able to produce scriptural evidence to support your claim that Jesus is the eternally begotten Son of God because no such evidence exists.

Is Jesus eternal? Absolutely yes.

Is Jesus the eternally begotten Son of God? No. Instead, he was begotten on the day in which he was raised from the dead in perfect fulfillment of what God had promised in Psalm 2:7.

Well again, you're going to be really mindblown then to find out Jesus was not just eternally begotten even before God first spoke the Word, even before being conceived by the virgin Mary, or even before being resurrected after the crucifixion, but that he is also slain even at the foundation of the world. So you pretty much just checkmated yourself. Either Jesus is eternally begotten as is believed by all Christians or else you're pretty much flirting with Arianism and saying he is a created being.

 

[Magenta]

The principle verses are from John 1, though indeed there are others, some of which have already been posted, praise Jesus.
John 1:1-2
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Well you'll have to keep reading until you reach verse 14 then.

John 1:1 + 14a In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

Well again, you're going to be really mindblown then to find out Jesus was not just eternally begotten even before God first spoke the Word, even before being conceived by the virgin Mary, or even before being resurrected after the crucifixion, but that he is also slain even at the foundation of the world. So you pretty much just checkmated yourself. Either Jesus is eternally begotten as is believed by all Christians or else you're pretty much flirting with Arianism and saying he is a created being.

My mind is only blown by your refusal to embrace the biblical truths which have already been presented to you here.

As I have previously and rightly told you, the words eternally begotten are self-contradictory, yet you keep on presenting them as if they are not. That which is eternal has no beginning, and that which is begotten has a starting point.

You want to talk about Mary? Okay.

Gal 4:4
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

According to scripture, God's Son was made of a woman, Mary, and made under the law which was given by Moses (John 1:17), yet you insist that he was the eternally begotten Son of God.

As far as your even before being resurrected claim is concerned, that has already been proven to be false by portions of scripture as Psalm 2:7 and Acts 13:32-33 which describe the specific day in which Jesus was begotten or raised from the dead, so I will not bother to post those verses again.

As far as your he is also slain even at the foundation of the world claim is concerned, here is what the scriptures teach.

Rev 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Peter and the entirety of scripture bring clarity to this verse.

1Pe 1:17
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
1Pe 1:18
Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19
But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1Pe 1:21
Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Jesus was not literally slain even at the foundation of the world. Instead, in God's foreknowledge, he was foreordained to be slain at a specific point in history, or he was manifested in these last times for us when he was crucified on Calvary approximately 2000 years ago.

Checkmated? You are the one who lacks understanding of your own professed King, and I am not flirting with anything. Instead, you are desperately trying to link me to beliefs which I have never embraced while repeatedly rejecting biblical truths which have been presented to you by both me and at least one other member here.

Finally, your either Jesus is eternally begotten as is believed by all Christians claim is laughable. Not only is your claim not true, as is evidenced by people on this very thread and by many other Christians across the globe, but it is also a fallacious appeal to authority.

 

[SonJudgment]

My mind is only blown by your refusal to embrace the biblical truths which have already been presented to you here.

As I have previously and rightly told you, the words eternally begotten are self-contradictory, yet you keep on presenting them as if they are not. That which is eternal has no beginning, and that which is begotten has a starting point.

You want to talk about Mary? Okay.

Gal 4:4
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

According to scripture, God's Son was made of a woman, Mary, and made under the law which was given by Moses (John 1:17), yet you insist that he was the eternally begotten Son of God.

As far as your even before being resurrected claim is concerned, that has already been proven to be false by portions of scripture as Psalm 2:7 and Acts 13:32-33 which describe the specific day in which Jesus was begotten or raised from the dead, so I will not bother to post those verses again.

As far as your he is also slain even at the foundation of the world claim is concerned, here is what the scriptures teach.

Rev 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Peter and the entirety of scripture bring clarity to this verse.

1Pe 1:17
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
1Pe 1:18
Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19
But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1Pe 1:21
Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Jesus was not literally slain even at the foundation of the world. Instead, in God's foreknowledge, he was foreordained to be slain at a specific point in history, or he was manifested in these last times for us when he was crucified on Calvary approximately 2000 years ago.

Checkmated? You are the one who lacks understanding of your own professed King, and I am not flirting with anything. Instead, you are desperately trying to link me to beliefs which I have never embraced while repeatedly rejecting biblical truths which have been presented to you by both me and at least one other member here.

Finally, your either Jesus is eternally begotten as is believed by all Christians claim is laughable. Not only is your claim not true, as is evidenced by people on this very thread and by many other Christians across the globe, but it is also a fallacious appeal to authority.

No, I believe the biblical truth which is that Jesus is the eternally begotten Son of God as well as the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world.

The contradiction is with you rather. Jesus cannot be both the eternally begotten Son of God and also be a created being that became God only at the crucifixion and his resurrection. For that matter you're burying yourself even deeper because Jesus is also quite literally the resurrection. My suggestion would be to just give up the heresy about Jesus being a created being that became God and retain that Jesus is the eternally begotten Son of God and that he has always been and always will be God.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

If you think it is kind of mindblowing that Jesus is the eternally begotten Son of God even before he was begotten in the womb of the virgin Mary; then you're really going to have your mind blown when you find out that Jesus was also slain from the foundation of the world many thousands of years before even the crucifixion, the eternal Lamb of God sacrificed for the salvation of all believers.

Mmhm God pre determined his sacrificial death and resurrection from before the beginning

“but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world,
( now we know he was foreordained to be sacrificed before the world was created )

but was manifest in these last times for you, who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.”( now we know he was manifest in the last times for the church )
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

now we know when he was begotten in the world and what the gospel is all about

“but these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.”
‭‭John‬ ‭20:31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The time came for the promised son to be manifest

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus is here in tbe ot

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And then he came into the world in the gospel as a man manifest in the flesh ( the son )

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ….He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1, 10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the son is the man the father is the spirit but God is one he did this

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭

That’s talking about Jesus who was manifest in the flesh preached to gentiles and caught up into glory

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The son of man ( begotten )is now at his right hand

“Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭22:69‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[keepingthingsreal]

No, I believe the biblical truth which is that Jesus is the eternally begotten Son of God as well as the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world.

The contradiction is with you rather. Jesus cannot be both the eternally begotten Son of God and also be a created being that became God only at the crucifixion and his resurrection. For that matter you're burying yourself even deeper because Jesus is also quite literally the resurrection. My suggestion would be to just give up the heresy about Jesus being a created being that became God and retain that Jesus is the eternally begotten Son of God and that he has always been and always will be God.

Who, besides you, said anything about Jesus being a created being that became God only at the crucifixion and his resurrection? I have repeatedly stated that Jesus is God eternally.

Your suggestion would be to just give up the heresy about Jesus being a created being that became God? Good. Then take your own advice because you are the only one who has made that claim in our dialogue. Look. If you are going to continue with your false accusations against me while failing to address the things which I have actually said, then you are going to find yourself on ignore momentarily. The choice is yours. Either address what I have actually said or be left to your own devices as I put you on ignore.

 

[SonJudgment]

Who, besides you, said anything about Jesus being a created being that became God only at the crucifixion and his resurrection? I have repeatedly stated that Jesus is God eternally.

Your suggestion would be to just give up the heresy about Jesus being a created being that became God? Good. Then take your own advice because you are the only one who has made that claim in our dialogue. Look. If you are going to continue with your false accusations against me while failing to address the things which I have actually said, then you are going to find yourself on ignore momentarily. The choice is yours. Either address what I have actually said or be left to your own devices as I put you on ignore.

Well I am exactly addressing what you said and the contradiction you hold which is not eve na knew heresy, butoriginates with the followers of Arianismmayn centuries ago.

You said this in post #28:

"Is Jesus the eternally begotten Son of God? No. Instead, he was begotten on the day in which he was raised from the dead in perfect fulfillment of what God had promised in Psalm 2:7."

I don't really mind if you respond or not, you already buried yourself.

 

[Aaron56]

Begotten means born Jesus wasn’t actually born in the flesh or “ begotten “ until the proper time came for salvstion but he was foreordained from the beginning then later manifest to the world

“but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world,

but was manifest in these last times for you,”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:19-20‬ ‭

The term “ begotten “ is a reference to Jesus being born in the flesh he existed always but wasn’t begotten until it was time for salvstion . Even in the ot you can hear that it was coming in prophetic form like this

“I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, And the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, When his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭2:7-9, 12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

or this

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

at here was always a promise of the begotten son of God

“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭7:14‬ ‭

But it wasn’t fulfilled until Jesus was born or begotten

So prophecy and ordainment first and then fulfillment or manifestation of the begotten

“Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God always speaks forth what he’s going to do , before he does it

My point is the son was born when the Bible tells us he was but he existed always he is the creator of the world and everything in it , he just hadn’t come in the flesh and manifest the begotten son until the gospel

God always foretells and later manifests what he said

Yes.

And God always speaks perfectly. That is: The words He uses are the most perfect form of the word, unless He tells us otherwise.

So, we might say "The ambassador of France represents the country of France." or "When you mess with the French ambassador you are messing with France". Wars have started for less.

A while ago I did a word study on "in time"; "in the fullness of time"; "when it was time", etc. I saw God, knowing the end from the beginning, bringing something new into time and space. It wasn't new to Him, it was new to anyone without an eternal perspective.

 

[SonJudgment]

Mmhm God pre determined his sacrificial death and resurrection from before the beginning

“but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world,
( now we know he was foreordained to be sacrificed before the world was created )

but was manifest in these last times for you, who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.”( now we know he was manifest in the last times for the church )
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

now we know when he was begotten in the world and what the gospel is all about

“but these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.”
‭‭John‬ ‭20:31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The time came for the promised son to be manifest

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus is here in tbe ot

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And then he came into the world in the gospel as a man manifest in the flesh ( the son )

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ….He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1, 10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the son is the man the father is the spirit but God is one he did this

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭

That’s talking about Jesus who was manifest in the flesh preached to gentiles and caught up into glory

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The son of man ( begotten )is now at his right hand

“Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭22:69‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Peter's is a good verse, but really I am referring to Revelation 13:8. How all the saints believe and know Jesus is the eternally begotten only Son of God and also the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. The antichrists can try to change it, but they won't, they'll only get themselves thrown into the hellfire.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes.

And God always speaks perfectly. That is: The words He uses are the most perfect form of the word, unless He tells us otherwise.

So, we might say "The ambassador of France represents the country of France." or "When you mess with the French ambassador you are messing with France". Wars have started for less.

A while ago I did a word study on "in time"; "in the fullness of time"; "when it was time", etc. I saw God, knowing the end from the beginning, bringing something new into time and space. It wasn't new to Him, it was new to anyone without an eternal perspective.

Amen that’s what people misunderstand. God has foreknowledge of all things and exists oitseide the limitations of time . So he already knows the outcome of all .

because of this his plans will always be perfect. Think of any plan you made tbat didn’t work out because of some unknown factor . This isn’t an issue with God there is no unknown factor so yes brother things are new to us as they are revealed to us from God , but to him it’s just the plan he’s always had coming to pass and will succeed as he foresaw it

“Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭42:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the reason is so that when you hear ahead of time , then later you witness it coming to pass as he spoke it , it offers faith that we can grab hold of or dismiss

 

[keepingthingsreal]

Well I am exactly addressing what you said and the contradiction you hold which is not eve na knew heresy, butoriginates with the followers of Arianismmayn centuries ago.

You said this in post #28:

"Is Jesus the eternally begotten Son of God? No. Instead, he was begotten on the day in which he was raised from the dead in perfect fulfillment of what God had promised in Psalm 2:7."

I don't really mind if you respond or not, you already buried yourself.

Here is what I actually said:

Yes, Jesus existed from eternity past as God, but nothing in scripture states that Jesus existed as the eternally begotten Son of God. Instead, scripture not only states that Jesus was begotten on a specific day (Psa. 2:7), but it also tells us exactly what day that was (Acts 13:33), and it was the day in which God raised him from the dead.

Is Jesus eternal? Absolutely yes.

Is Jesus the eternally begotten Son of God? No. Instead, he was begotten on the day in which he was raised from the dead in perfect fulfillment of what God had promised in Psalm 2:7.

I said nothing about Jesus allegedly being some sort of created being. Instead, I plainly stated that he is eternal, but not the eternally begotten Son of God. As scripture teaches, and as you have already repeatedly been shown, Jesus was begotten on the day in which he was raised from the dead (Psa. 2:7, Acts 13:32-33, Rev. 1:5).

Seeing how you have repeatedly shown yourself to be dishonest in our interactions here, you are going on ignore. Bye.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Peter's is a good verse, but really I am referring to Revelation 13:8. How all the saints believe and know Jesus is the eternally begotten only Son of God and also the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. The antichrists can try to change it, but they won't, they'll only get themselves thrown into the hellfire.

Yes of course your referring to this verse

“And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

but don’t you think the rest of the Bible can help us understand what this verse on a heavenly vision means ?

For instance when does the Bible actually say Jesus was begotten or born in the flesh ?

Or another thing was God ever writing a book with peoples names in it from beforehand before jesus was begotten ?