What Does It Mean That God Desires All People To Be Saved?

[John146]

Non sequitur. Also, "after the cross as"?

David was given sure mercies because the cross has not occurred in his day. After the cross, no need for sure mercies, we have complet forgiveness in the cross. Calvin was a RCC priest who followed the teachings of Jerome. Both were false teachers who clung on to the teachings of the RCC.

 

[NightTwister]

David was given sure mercies because the cross has not occurred in his day. After the cross, no need for sure mercies, we have complete forgiveness in the cross. Calvin was a RCC priest who followed the teachings of Jerome. Both were false teachers who clung on to the teachings of the RCC.

There's no biblical support for that notion (pre-cross mercies). Calvin left the RCC because of its teachings. His students were frequently killed by the RCC.

 

[TabinRivCA]

David was given sure mercies because the cross has not occurred in his day. After the cross, no need for sure mercies, we have complet forgiveness in the cross. Calvin was a RCC priest who followed the teachings of Jerome. Both were false teachers who clung on to the teachings of the RCC.

I'm non-denom so have no favoritism here on either side, but I do believe in justness as in 'God loves justice, and teaches his followers to uphold justice, fairness, and equity (Micah 6:8)'. Through the crash course on Calvin, I won't call him a bad person. He may have started out associated with the RCC and after disagreeing with some tenants, Calvin then became their enemy. Also, there are many entries on Calvin, both pro and con, but the pro's are the majority.
No surprise, there was fake news back then. There are many different versions regarding the execution of Servetus. For sure it was a different world back then of Catholics vs Protestants. Servetus was thought of as an interloper promoting heresies at the time, which was an offense. It wouldn't surprise too many if the RCC took part in distorting the event but who can say for sure what ALL the elements were, with all what was going on and all the forces involved.
So imho, I don't condemn Calvin. I think his heart was of good intent but like all of us, will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ, and be rewarded for the good we did and detracted for the wrong we have done.
'But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere' Jms 3:17.
( sorry @Cameron143, confessing of taking part of derailing your op, pardon🙏 lol)

 

[Cameron143]

I'm non-denom so have no favoritism here on either side, but I do believe in justness as in 'God loves justice, and teaches his followers to uphold justice, fairness, and equity (Micah 6:8)'. Through the crash course on Calvin, I won't call him a bad person. He may have started out associated with the RCC and after disagreeing with some tenants, Calvin then became their enemy. Also, there are many entries on Calvin, both pro and con, but the pro's are the majority.
No surprise, there was fake news back then. There are many different versions regarding the execution of Servetus. For sure it was a different world back then of Catholics vs Protestants. Servetus was thought of as an interloper promoting heresies at the time, which was an offense. It wouldn't surprise too many if the RCC took part in distorting the event but who can say for sure what ALL the elements were, with all what was going on and all the forces involved.
So imho, I don't condemn Calvin. I think his heart was of good intent but like all of us, will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ, and be rewarded for the good we did and detracted for the wrong we have done.
'But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere' Jms 3:17.
( sorry @Cameron143, confessing of taking part of derailing your op, pardon🙏 lol)

Far from derailing, you added. And threads go where they go. I've derailed my own threads before.

 

[Eph2all]

Is it considered a desire if I only have a strong feeling of wanting?

Normally yes. It can be but one can have a desire without a strong feeling.

Do I need to do anything to make my desire a desire?

No, (other than think).

If I volunteer to incur all the expenses for my family does this make it a desire when before it wasn't?

No.

What if I only volunteered to pay for some family members?

Immaterial.

Does this affect whether it is a desire or lessen the desire to have the company of my family?

It could.

Can God's desire for the salvation of people be independent of people?

No. Except I suppose if there were no people. In other words God could, I suppose, desire something that doesn't yet exist. One can desire world peace even though it doesn't exist.

Does God have to do anything for people in order for His desire to be genuine?

No. Desire is different than the accomplishment or fulfillment of the desire. Desire is mental the only thing required is thought.

 

[Fundaamental]

Let's suppose I am going on a trip. I make all the arrangements, set a date, and wait. But I also would like it to be a family excursion. I desire their company.

Is it considered a desire if I only have a strong feeling of wanting? Do I need to do anything to make my desire a desire? If I volunteer to incur all the expenses for my family does this make it a desire when before it wasn't? What if I only volunteered to pay for some family members? Does this affect whether it is a desire or lessen the desire to have the company of my family?

I ask these questions so they will be top of mind when asking the same questions about God's desire that all people are saved? Can God's desire for the salvation of people be independent of people? Does God have to do anything for people in order for His desire to be genuine? If so, does He have to act equally towards all people for His desire to be real?

I'm not attempting to offer this as proof of one set of ideas over another. It is simply to understand the nature of what is entailed in a desire and what is not. Consequently, and perhaps impossibly, I am asking for unbiased thought. I am asking that as you consider the question, you set aside, as much as is possible, how you would answer based on your other held beliefs, and consider the question independently from other doctrine.

Thanks. And I look forward to your responses.

I've come to think feeling saved is something that comes with daily reassurance.

My desire is to be saved from all situations that may make me fall away from How God would do things or how God would have me deal with something.

I feal Gods desire for all to be saved is the same as Gods desire for all to realise God will give you wisdom anytime you seek it, which I feal even if you had that wisdom before you can still get the same wisdom repeated to you again,

As God says he will give his wisdom freely .

 

[Eli1]

Interesting question.
What's the difference between desire and love?
After reading all 19 pages, you asked this question because of another discussion you had with a friend @Cameron143 ?
Which originated from "How can a loving God desire people to go to Hell" or something along those lines?

 

[Cameron143]

Interesting question.
What's the difference between desire and love?
After reading all 19 pages, you asked this question because of another discussion you had with a friend @Cameron143 ?
Which originated from "How can a loving God desire people to go to Hell" or something along those lines?

Hey brother, and Merry Christmas.
I'm not sure of the impetus for the thread. You may well be correct. And for the record, asking old people to recall anything before their last breakfast can be construed as elder abuse.

 

[Eli1]

Merry Christmas to you and all in this community.
This was a nice discussion here by the way which was enjoyable to read everyone's perspective.

 

[Kroogz]

Let's suppose I am going on a trip. I make all the arrangements, set a date, and wait. But I also would like it to be a family excursion. I desire their company.

Is it considered a desire if I only have a strong feeling of wanting? Do I need to do anything to make my desire a desire? If I volunteer to incur all the expenses for my family does this make it a desire when before it wasn't? What if I only volunteered to pay for some family members? Does this affect whether it is a desire or lessen the desire to have the company of my family?

I ask these questions so they will be top of mind when asking the same questions about God's desire that all people are saved? Can God's desire for the salvation of people be independent of people? Does God have to do anything for people in order for His desire to be genuine? If so, does He have to act equally towards all people for His desire to be real?

I'm not attempting to offer this as proof of one set of ideas over another. It is simply to understand the nature of what is entailed in a desire and what is not. Consequently, and perhaps impossibly, I am asking for unbiased thought. I am asking that as you consider the question, you set aside, as much as is possible, how you would answer based on your other held beliefs, and consider the question independently from other doctrine.

Thanks. And I look forward to your responses.

Thought provoking to say the least! I will take a stab at it. I believe we constantly have to(try) to keep in mind that God desires that mankind has a freewill. From my studies, I don't see a specific verse that says," My desires, I Act upon!" But taking the whole of scriptures into account I believe He acts upon all of His desires indirectly at times and directly at times. In way's that don't infringe on mans freewill. Which leaves it open to having His desires fulfilled or not being fulfilled.

Yet we still have to keep in mind that one of His divine attributes cannot impugn another. Example: He desires that all men be saved.
I see reformed theology brought up in the discussion. His sovereignty cannot impugn His justice. He cannot choose to save one person and not the other through His sovereignty, it would nullify His justice. His love for us cannot save us all, because it impugns His righteousness. All of His divine attributes have to work in accordance with each other.

So I believe He acts on all of His desires. But it has to be without infringing on mans freewill. And all of His divine attributes working together in harmony. Some desires are fulfilled and some are not.

Those "coincidences" or "how could that happen" are the indirect and that brick wall is the direct.

We could write volumes. But this is a brief summary as I see it.

Great thought provoking questions! It makes one stop and think, and go beyond the surface a bit. Thanks.

 

[LightOfMyLife]

Jesus died for the sins of the world and he is not willing that any should perish but they should be saved. John 1:12 To as many as receive him he gives them the power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. You must be born again to enter heaven. He gives us a free will to either choose his gift of salvation or reject it and go to hell.

 

[Cameron143]

Thought provoking to say the least! I will take a stab at it. I believe we constantly have to(try) to keep in mind that God desires that mankind has a freewill. From my studies, I don't see a specific verse that says," My desires, I Act upon!" But taking the whole of scriptures into account I believe He acts upon all of His desires indirectly at times and directly at times. In way's that don't infringe on mans freewill. Which leaves it open to having His desires fulfilled or not being fulfilled.

Yet we still have to keep in mind that one of His divine attributes cannot impugn another. Example: He desires that all men be saved.
I see reformed theology brought up in the discussion. His sovereignty cannot impugn His justice. He cannot choose to save one person and not the other through His sovereignty, it would nullify His justice. His love for us cannot save us all, because it impugns His righteousness. All of His divine attributes have to work in accordance with each other.

So I believe He acts on all of His desires. But it has to be without infringing on mans freewill. And all of His divine attributes working together in harmony. Some desires are fulfilled and some are not.

Those "coincidences" or "how could that happen" are the indirect and that brick wall is the direct.

We could write volumes. But this is a brief summary as I see it.

Great thought provoking questions! It makes one stop and think, and go beyond the surface a bit. Thanks.

I appreciate you sharing.

 

[Cameron143]

Jesus died for the sins of the world and he is not willing that any should perish but they should be saved. John 1:12 To as many as receive him he gives them the power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. You must be born again to enter heaven. He gives us a free will to either choose his gift of salvation or reject it and go to hell.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[BillyBob]

Thought provoking to say the least! I will take a stab at it. I believe we constantly have to(try) to keep in mind that God desires that mankind has a freewill. From my studies, I don't see a specific verse that says," My desires, I Act upon!" But taking the whole of scriptures into account I believe He acts upon all of His desires indirectly at times and directly at times. In way's that don't infringe on mans freewill. Which leaves it open to having His desires fulfilled or not being fulfilled.

Yet we still have to keep in mind that one of His divine attributes cannot impugn another. Example: He desires that all men be saved.
I see reformed theology brought up in the discussion. His sovereignty cannot impugn His justice. He cannot choose to save one person and not the other through His sovereignty, it would nullify His justice. His love for us cannot save us all, because it impugns His righteousness. All of His divine attributes have to work in accordance with each other.

So I believe He acts on all of His desires. But it has to be without infringing on mans freewill. And all of His divine attributes working together in harmony. Some desires are fulfilled and some are not.

Those "coincidences" or "how could that happen" are the indirect and that brick wall is the direct.

We could write volumes. But this is a brief summary as I see it.

Great thought provoking questions! It makes one stop and think, and go beyond the surface a bit. Thanks.

Faith is God's gift, and “all men have not faith”. (2 Thess. 3:2); therefore, we see that God does not bestow this gift upon all. Upon who does He bestow this saving favor? And we answer, upon His own elect - “As many as were ordained to eternal life believed” - (Acts 13:48). Hence it is that we read of “the faith of God's elect” (Titus 1:1). But is God partial in the distribution of His favors? Has He not the right to be? Then His own words are a sufficient reply - “Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with my own?” (Matt. 20:15). God is sovereign in the bestowment of His gifts, both in the natural and in the spiritual realms .

Sovereignty of God – by A. W. Pint

A great little book to study and consider!

 

[Kroogz]

Faith is God's gift, and “all men have not faith”. (2 Thess. 3:2); therefore, we see that God does not bestow this gift upon all. Upon who does He bestow this saving favor? And we answer, upon His own elect - “As many as were ordained to eternal life believed” - (Acts 13:48). Hence it is that we read of “the faith of God's elect” (Titus 1:1). But is God partial in the distribution of His favors? Has He not the right to be? Then His own words are a sufficient reply - “Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with my own?” (Matt. 20:15). God is sovereign in the bestowment of His gifts, both in the natural and in the spiritual realms .

Sovereignty of God – by A. W. Pint

A great little book to study and consider!

I have read that. And many others. I was in a reformed church for a long while. For me personally, I found a Grace bible church and have never looked back.

 

[BillyBob]

My very 1st post, and I spell Pink's name incorrectly! Just goes to show that my brain and fingers are not in sync! I like taking the words from what others have written. That is, when they express what I believe. My background is with reformed churches, although finding a good church close by is not easy.

 

[Cameron143]

My very 1st post, and I spell Pink's name incorrectly! Just goes to show that my brain and fingers are not in sync! I like taking the words from what others have written. That is, when they express what I believe. My background is with reformed churches, although finding a good church close by is not easy.

Welcome and mistakes are generally overlooked to get to content. So say something interesting.

 

[Nehemiah6]

My very 1st post, and I spell Pink's name incorrectly!

Well a pint of Arthur Pink is more than enough to show that he is a dyed-in-the-wool Calvinist. Most of us here totally disagree with Five Point Calvinism. Since you have a Reformed church background, that might be a bit of a problem for you. However a proper and UNBIASED study of Gospel truth will show you that God desires the salvation of all men, and the Christ died for the sins of the whole world.

Anyhow, Welcome to CC BillyBob, and there are many other topics which are being discussed.

 

[BillyBob]

OK! Why is it that I hear some people argue as follows:

God would not bestow faith to some only! That just would not be fair!
Who are we to determine what God should do or not do?
Does He not do as he pleases?

When we question what He clearly says, are we not putting ourselves above Him?

 

[Kroogz]

My very 1st post, and I spell Pink's name incorrectly! Just goes to show that my brain and fingers are not in sync! I like taking the words from what others have written. That is, when they express what I believe. My background is with reformed churches, although finding a good church close by is not easy.

I knew what you meant. No worries!