What Controls Our Human Free Will?

[Jordon]

Thanks, so it seems that by "God holds no value for human will," you meant that the human will does not value God. Thanks again for clarifying.

Not exactly no, human will will think it values God, but that's all it can do is think.

 

[DavidLamb]

Not exactly no, human will will think it values God, but that's all it can do is think.

Understood.

 

[Jordon]

Understood.

you've understood human will can only think it can value Gods will.

But I don't think you understood Gods will doesn't think.

Gods will has declared it has no value for human will what so ever

 

[DavidLamb]

you've understood human will can only think it can value Gods will.

But I don't think you understood Gods will doesn't think.

Gods will has declared it has no value for human will what so ever

Do you have a bible reference for the notion that God's will doesn't think, or that Gods will has declared it has no value for human will what so ever?

 

[Jordon]

Do you have a bible reference for the notion that God's will doesn't think, or that Gods will has declared it has no value for human will what so ever?

I thought the scripture provided all ready was well explained regarding that, with in the last dozen posts I've made here ?

 

[Jordon]

Do you have a bible reference for the notion that God's will doesn't think, or that Gods will has declared it has no value for human will what so ever?

Ecclesiastes 5:2

NIV

2 Do not be quick with your mouth,
do not be hasty in your heart
to utter anything before God.
God is in heaven
and you are on earth,
so let your words be few.

 

[Dino246]

Ecclesiastes 5:2

NIV

2 Do not be quick with your mouth,
do not be hasty in your heart
to utter anything before God.
God is in heaven
and you are on earth,
so let your words be few.

That verse does not say what you think it says. Unfortunately, I could say that for most of the verses you post in support of your ideas.

You’re probably going to interpret that as a personal attack or a disrespectful comment, but it is neither. Instead, it’s a warning to you that whatever method you’re using to connect Scripture with your ideas is flawed.

Start with Scripture. Work to understand what the Lord is saying. Then, once you understand it, summarize it in your words. Otherwise all you’re doing is getting more experience at eisegesis.

Your responses to me and to others confirm that you are only defending your ideas and not attempting to understand Scripture. Grow a thicker skin and allow yourself to be corrected.

 

[Jordon]

That verse does not say what you think it says. Unfortunately, I could say that for most of the verses you post in support of your ideas.

You’re probably going to interpret that as a personal attack or a disrespectful comment, but it is neither. Instead, it’s a warning to you that whatever method you’re using to connect Scripture with your ideas is flawed.

Start with Scripture. Work to understand what the Lord is saying. Then, once you understand it, summarize it in your words. Otherwise all you’re doing is getting more experience at eisegesis.

Your responses to me and to others confirm that you are only defending your ideas and not attempting to understand Scripture. Grow a thicker skin and allow yourself to be corrected.

. Human will lives in the flesh it doesn't live with God

 

[HeIsHere]

Look at what actually happened when Adam ate the fruit of knowledge of good and evil which was forbidden

“And the Lord God said, “The man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil.

He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:22‬ ‭NIV‬‬

now look what the first man ever born after that is told

“Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast?

If you do what is right, will you not be accepted?

But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:6-7‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Cain wasn’t born as a sinner . Hes told of you do good you’ll be accepted but if you do evil sin will rule and have you …. You must overcome it by doing what’s good and not evil

He’s not incapable but he’s now conflicted between good and evil and being informed by God about sin, warned about sin and told that he’s now in a situation where sin is trying to get him and that he must overcome sin by doing good and not evil .

same situation israel was told later good and evil life and death was now part of man’s equation because of adams sin

“See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; …..I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:15, 19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Just like cain the first man born to adam good and evil is placed before them by Gods word offering life or death blessing and cursing. A choice they can either accept or reject.

The second man ever born to adam was called a righteous martyr who’s works were righteous . Some men are called perfect and righteous and are said to have walked with God in tbier lives others are called righteous enough to save thier own souls by his word . One man who walked with God lived 365 years and never died but was translated by faith after God declared the witness that he pleased God in life. They were born in the same situation cain was and we still are today in Christ we can follow the good by the spirit and live or the evil by our flesh and die it’s still our choice even after we served sin beforehand willfully and freely.

What Adam caused was mankknd to be placed between good and evil knowing both within and having to now overcome evil where they never had to beforehand they just needed to have faith and listen to God. Now evil eas constantly going to be able to tempt them that’s our issue we’re tempted and we ourselves sin and bring ourselves condemnation

“but every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We aren’t born wrong we choose and become wrong like Adam did he became corrupt he wasn’t created that way his actions caused them to know good and evil and be cast out . Like cains actions caused him to be rejected and exiled. Like Israel’s actions broke thier covenant and brought the curses he warned them about in it.

humans are born in a world where we grow up learning both good and evil this causes the inclinations and habits we form and contend with throughout the rest of our lives until Christ sets us free but we aren’t born servants of sin we choose to serve sin and become sinners condemned to die for our sins ….. then the gospel makes sense when Jesus comes to die for our sins

Never tire of reading the way your break this down and adhere to the written Word not the theories of a man from the mid-300's.

 

[Jordon]

Never tire of reading the way your break this down and adhere to the written Word not the theories of a man from the mid-300's.

The tree of knowledge Didn't make there nature fall, the sin of disobedience did, which came from the will of the flesh, which made there inner being there soul become captive to death.

Adam let his wife Disobey God for something to eat and he to disobeyed God for something eat.

Just like many other accounts in the bible where by other people have sold themselves to more sin, for something not of value, like esau selling his birth right for a bowl of soup.

The reason for this is because the will of the flesh has no value to God doesn't respect God, and doesn't care for nothing other than it's self,

And God has no value for the will of the flesh,

The will of the flesh can not chose anything of a spiritual nature, it can only think it can.

Where as Gods will is spiritual not fleshly, and his word became flesh for us, and dwells amongst us,. for us and in us to overcome the will of our flesh and can help us live by the spirit in our infirmities.

 

[Dino246]

. Human will lives in the flesh it doesn't live with God

Why do you post this blather? It adds nothing to the discussion and doesn’t relate at all to what I posted.

It seems that you may be struggling to process ideas calmly and rationally. Again, that’s just an observation and not a criticism.

 

[Jordon]

Why do you post this blather? It adds nothing to the discussion and doesn’t relate at all to what I posted.

It seems that you may be struggling to process ideas calmly and rationally. Again, that’s just an observation and not a criticism.

Human will lives in the flesh

 

[HeIsHere]

The will of the flesh can not chose anything of a spiritual nature, it can only think it can.

What is of a spiritual nature mean?

 

[Dino246]

The tree of knowledge Didn't make there nature fall, the sin of disobedience did, which came from the will of the flesh, which made there inner being there soul become captive to death.

That strongly implies that their (not “there”) will was broken before they ate the fruit. That means it was not “very good” which is what God Himself said.

In other words, your idea contradicts the very words of God.

 

[Jordon]

That strongly implies that their (not “there”) will was broken before they ate the fruit. That means it was not “very good” which is what God Himself said.

In other words, your idea contradicts the very words of God.

Human will lives in the flesh

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Never tire of reading the way your break this down and adhere to the written Word not the theories of a man from the mid-300's.

God bless and always a pleasure

 

[Jordon]

That strongly implies that their (not “there”) will was broken before they ate the fruit. That means it was not “very good” which is what God Himself said.

In other words, your idea contradicts the very words of God.

Plain and simple for you as cited in scripture.

The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.

 

[Dino246]

Human will lives in the flesh

You repeating yourself only strengthens my suspicion that you lack the necessary mental capacity to comprehend this topic.

 

[Jordon]

You repeating yourself only strengthens my suspicion that you lack the necessary mental capacity to comprehend this topic.

I can't open the eyes and ears of anyone, for me there is no point in becoming frustrated as for people who don't have there eyes and ears open yet, it's imply not there time, what they need is the milk of the word.

There are many who have not yet had there ears eyes open yet, but in God's good time, by the glory of his will, will he accomplish his will to be done on earth as it is in heaven.

 

[Jordon]

What is of a spiritual nature mean?

The flesh is not spiritual.

Romans 8 explains the spiritual nature of God that can dwell with us.

More over Romans 8 And Gods will declares that the law of the spirit was made weak by the will of the flesh.

Which again means the will of the flesh is not spiritual and has no value to God.

Neither can it comprehend the spiritual matters Of God or the law of his spirit, all it cares for is it's own will.

More over the will of the flesh has to be cut of from God daily, disciplined daily, and renewed daily,

Moreover Gods will declares man must live by every word spoken from the lords mouth for the unsaved and for the saved they must live by his treasures stored in the hearts,

As the human will lives in the flesh which has no value to God what so ever.