I see a guilt trip differently. It's often used to ensnare others into doing what one wills them to do.
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- Thread starter BillyBob
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Is that how you see God operating also? Trying to guilt trip people into obedience in order to escape the consequences of disobedience? Scripture says the devil has the whole world ensnared to his will. Of course that applies to the natural man... So many here seem to deny that also. And/or they speak in such a way as to make it seem as though it is the devil's will that we believe in God. It all just strikes me as very strange.
One thing has nothing to do with the other....
Is Satan going to the Lake of Fire because he had no choice in the matter?
God was drawing Lucifer all along by revealing his attributes and power to all the angels before any angel fell.
What excuse is there?
Please... Give me your definition of Effectual Grace so I can know where you are coming from.
There's no lack of attempts to judge good and evil here, but there's too obviously plenty lack in judging rightly. I don't hold praise of the praise of men of anymore worth than I would their condemnation, even if I am initially affected by it. It's all too common.
No,
I am implying that if I go to y9ou and share God with you in this way. and go to a different person the exact same way, It may not be received the same, because we are all different people
God knows us, He knows our hearts. He knows what will work. He knows also the fact that no matter what he does. it will never work.
I believe God will go out of his way to make sure what works (if anything) is given to all people. He does not just leave them wanting.
If we look, the mere fact that he pushes for the body to be united. yet the fact that all parts are different, and he even gifts people different, That it all works in harmony destroys any thinking of cookie cutter christianity
I agree that the lack of judging the natural man rightly is a problem. And it seems unfortunate, to me at least, that we find ourselves at odds with each other over this difference in perspectives, for I would never wish to offend you with my presentation of the truth as I understand it in Scripture.
What does Satan or angels have to do with Natural Revelation in Rom 1? (Rhetorical question, since we both know there answer is NOTHING!) Since when does the term "men" in Rom 1:18 = Satan or his fallen angels?
Satan and his angels observe mankind. They have viewed over and over again a reenactment of the very process they went through in deciding to reject God.
God made man different enough from angels so that they can see attributes in men that they have, but being different from angels, gives them a detached objectivity...
In essence.... God is using man to get fallen angels to condemn themselves by how they judge and accuse us.
Are we bickering? Heh, it seems obvious we are at different places in our understanding of how one comes to believe, and perhaps it all -or at least in part- comes down to our own understanding according to our own experiences, but I know your upbringing was quite different from mine, and what was revealed to you was quite different from what was revealed to me, so I don't think you can agree that we are all given the same revelation as some people assert... Or that it is unfair for God to reveal something to one person and not to everybody else. Another thing that goes into our different understandings is the order of events that saw us coming to believe and surrender to Him. I know for a fact that in my natural self I was unable to choose to believe... And yet there are those who tell me that I was born again at that time... and it is a Scriptural truth that we are made alive in Christ while we were yet dead in our tresspasses and sins. That to me right there is proof that God moves first and enables us to start into a process of choosing Him.
Sometimes my responses are geared towards certain attitudes and I am mirroring the attitude that others project. I say that because I realize people sometimes find that offensive and it's actually kind of funny to me, that when I have done that to certain people, they are completely unaware that I am mirroring their very own attitude back to them. The attitude that they then condemn as if they didn't have it in the first place. That is answering a fool according to their own folly and I find that it is somewhat distasteful to me also so perhaps I should stop doing that. I simply say that as an FYI...
Yeah but if you’re a ghost you don’t see anything.
Yeah...okay. Get back to me when you have chapter and verse to prove your premise instead of empty conjecture.
Satan accuses believers day and night in heaven!
To do so, he must observe believers in order to have reason to accuse them.
Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
“Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down."
Rev 12:10