What Changed?

[Beckworth]

What Changed?
Assuming that you are a child of God, What was the event that resulted in this change?
All people are conceived in sin and are born children of wrath, unfit for any saving good, inclined to evil, dead in their sins, and slaves to sin; without the grace of the regenerating Holy Spirit they are neither willing nor able to return to God, to reform their distorted nature, or even to dispose themselves to such reform.

Something had to change
Did you overcome this condition in your own strength, or were you drawn to Christ by the power of the Spirit? If you were drawn, were you able to resist being drawn?

Wow! You must be a huge fan of Calvinism. That sounds like a direct quote from his doctrine—and that is just what it is—a doctrine of man, originating with John Calvin in the 16th century. That means this doctrine was not around in the first century when the apostles were living and the Bible was being written. It was 1500 years too late to be from God. God says in 2 Timothy 3;16 that the Bible is INSPIRED and COMPLETE. Thoroughly furnishing a man or equipping him with all he needs.
Ezekiel 18 makes it very clear that we do NOT inherit sin. Jesus used little children as examples of purity and said they are in the kingdom of heaven. Psalms 136:38 says children are “innocent.”
2 Thess. 2:14 says we are “called” to God by the GOSPEL; not by some mysterious force nor by the Holy Spirit directly—only indirectly as it was written by the Spirit. We are all “called” to God in the same way—by His word in the gospel. God is no respecter of persons. He calls us and saves us all the same way. No one has any advantage over the other.
Examples of this happening in the scriptures is in Acts 8; Phillip preached Jesus to the eunuch and he asked to be baptized. In Acts 16 Paul “spoke” the word of God to the jailer and he and his house were baptized immediately. 1 Cor. 10 Peter taught Cornelius the gospel and he and his house were baptized. In Acts2 Peter preached a sermon to the Jews and they asked “ What must we do?” In verse 37. In the New Testament, people who came to Christ heard the word of God first —it called them or drew them— and as a result, they obeyed the gospel. Just like 2 Thess. 2:14 says. The Bible is harmonious and does not contradict itself. We are either convinced that God is real and the Bible is true and we want to go to heaven and not spend eternity in hell so we obey God’s gospel OR we are unbelievers and we don’t care what God says and we choose NOT to obey. We have a choice and it is solely ours. We are not forced to obey God. He wants willing hearts to obey Him.

 

[Magenta]

Matthew 16:15-17

 

[Magenta]

God says in 2 Timothy 3;16 that the Bible is INSPIRED and COMPLETE.

Why do you misrepresent what the Bible says???

 

[Magenta]

Psalms 136:38 says children are “innocent.”

There is no such verse.

2 Thess. 2:14 says we are “called” to God by the GOSPEL; not by some mysterious force nor by the Holy Spirit directly—only indirectly as it was written by the Spirit. We are all “called” to God in the same way—by His word in the gospel. God is no respecter of persons. He calls us and saves us all the same way. No one has any advantage over the other.

Wow. Really? And yet that book was written by someone who made it quite plain that his calling was like none other.

 

[Christianman20]

Yes the boble is the one calling us to god word and god way its the main guide to heaven but unfortunatly only very few people in the world are following this sords
The majorty are following the democracy way whoch has a lot of evil ideas in it

 

[PaulThomson]

Jesus was not some airbrushed looking frail hippy.

Sorry.. That kind of image used to make me (and others) mock Christianity as some pagan religion.

"Does not the very nature of things teach you that ​

if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him." ​

​

1 Corinthians 11:14​

That wrong image of Jesus had caused many a Hippy to have their excuse.

That long haired appearance for Jesus came from artists that had just come out of paganism, who thought that a
holy man was to look like their pagan priests they had grown up with. Which of many, were temple prostitutes.

Satan must have sneered and laughed when naïve believers accepted that kind of likeness.

I learned of how that look of Jesus came about by an Art Museum curator who gave a lecture at Williams College in
Williamstown, MA. It is one of the top schools in the country.

​

"Does not the very nature of things teach you that ​

if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him." ​

​

1 Corinthians 11:14​

I would rather not argue with the Word of God ......

​

"Does not the very nature of things teach you that ​

if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him." ​

​

So be it .......​

Maybe what it says is that if a husband has long hair, it is a disgrace.

 

[HeIsHere]

2 Thess. 2:14 says we are “called” to God by the GOSPEL; not by some mysterious force nor by the Holy Spirit directly—only indirectly as it was written by the Spirit. We are all “called” to God in the same way—by His word in the gospel. God is no respecter of persons. He calls us and saves us all the same way. No one has any advantage over the other.

Perfect summation.
There is no special enabling/gnosis given to some and not others.

I think you made a little typo, it is Psalm 106:38

 

[Rufus]

How much Calvinism have you been exposed to?

Romans One is a prime example of men having been drawn by God, and who rejected God after having God made real to them.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God ​

that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to ​

the Gentile. 17 For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—​

a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: ​

“The righteous will live by faith.”​

​

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the ​

godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by ​

their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain ​

to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the ​

creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power ​

and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood ​

from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.​

​

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God ​

nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their​

foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, ​

they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal ​

God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds ​

and animals and reptiles.​

​

​

Calvinism was an attempt to make sense out of what it had not enough doctrine to check itself with.

What God made plain to mankind were his attributes through the natural created order. Read v.20 carefully. God has revealed himself to mankind in three ways (although many theologians would disagree with me). He has revealed himself through Special Revelation, Natural Revelation and Intuitive Revelation. But none of these have anything to do per se with Effectual Grace or the Effectual Call of God.

 

[Magenta]

Perfect summation.
There is no special enabling/gnosis given to some and not others.

I think you made a little typo, it is Psalm 106:38

I think you need to read the Bible. You will find that God revealed Himself in different ways to different people all along.

 

[Magenta]

There is no special enabling/gnosis given to some and not others.

Acts 2:17 (Joel 2:28)
According to you, this never happened, or happens. According to you, if this ever happened, it would be unfair of God.

 

[Rufus]

Yes let us focus on what it teaches, which is not effectual grace or unconditional election and is NOT individual soteriological instead it is a very specific instance, much like other miracles that Christ Jesus performed as part of His ministry.
This miracle was for the benefit of others to accomplish the purposes of Jesus as He fulfilled His mission here on earth.

We are not in 30+ AD.
You need to see the function/reason of what Jesus does at that specific time and not make every verse about individual soteriology.

“Since the whole human race is blind and stubborn, those faults remain fixed in our nature until they are corrected by the grace of the Spirit, and that comes only from election. Two people may hear the same teaching together; yet one is willing to learn, and the other persists in his obstinacy. They do not differ in nature, but God illumines one and not the other.
John Calvin

Scripture states otherwise.

John 1:9-11: “There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.”

Here is a soteriological statement and note it does not state....."enabled/illuminated" to believe.

Romans 10:9-10 says that “if you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.”

Oh...so you're pulling a PT: When you come across a passage that militates against your version of the gospel, you just "cull" it out from the rest of scripture and conveniently label it "irrelevant to us today". Cute.

As far as Jn 1:9 goes, the the phrase "every man" is used in the limited sense. In fact, it's referring to the "world" generally (v.10); for every single person in the world is not enlightened by the Light since billions of people over the centuries have never even heard of Jesus Christ.

And while Jesus gives light to the world, the world does not receive it because it has not understood it.

John 1:5
5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
NIV

And if you had read a little further into John, you would have learned the reason for the darkness not understanding the Light.

John 3:19-20
19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
NIV


And what exactly is this "darkness" that has not understood the light? It's fallen mankind!

Eph 5:8
8 For you were ONCE darkness , but NOW you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light
NIV

So, how is anyone saved since the Darkness did not comprehend the light in order to be saved? Answer: Effectual Grace!

2 Cor 4:-6
6 For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness ," made his light shine in OUR hearts to give US the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
NIV

"Our hearts", "to give us", i.e. the elect --the saints to whom Paul was writing.

You can make scripture say anything you want when you conveniently ignore context as you have done.

As far as your Rom 10 passage goes, it's a non sequitur. Has nothing to do with the Light that has come into the world.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I think you need to read the Bible. You will find that God revealed Himself in different ways to different people all along.

I think people need to realize we are all special people. What works for one person may not work on another person. God always addresses us as individuals..

 

[Rufus]

I think people need to realize we are all special people. What works for one person may not work on another person. God always addresses us as individuals..

Are you implying that God's Truth is as subjective as we are (i.e. individualistic)?

 

[Magenta]

Oh...so you're pulling a PT: When you come across a passage that militates against your version of the gospel, you just "cull" it out from the rest of scripture and conveniently label it "irrelevant to us today". Cute.

As far as Jn 1:9 goes, the the phrase "every man" is used in the limited sense. In fact, it's referring to the "world" generally (v.10); for every single person in the world is not enlightened by the Light since billions of people over the centuries have never even heard of Jesus Christ.

And while Jesus gives light to the world, the world does not receive it because it has not understood it.

John 1:5
5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
NIV

And if you had read a little further into John, you would have learned the reason for the darkness not understanding the Light.

John 3:19-20
19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
NIV

And what exactly is this "darkness" that has not understood the light? It's fallen mankind!

Eph 5:8
8 For you were ONCE darkness , but NOW you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light
NIV

So, how is anyone saved since the Darkness did not comprehend the light in order to be saved? Answer: Effectual Grace!

2 Cor 4:-6
6 For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness ," made his light shine in OUR hearts to give US the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
NIV

"Our hearts", "to give us", i.e. the elect --the saints to whom Paul was writing.

You can make scripture say anything you want when you conveniently ignore context as you have done.

As far as your Rom 10 passage goes, it's a non sequitur. Has nothing to do with the Light that has come into the world.

More verses making plain the estate of the natural man! Woe to those who deny it...

 

[Magenta]

I think people need to realize we are all special people. What works for one person may not work on another person. God always addresses us as individuals..

Cookie cutter Christianity seems an odd thing for anybody to be fighting for...

 

[Mem]

Woe to those who deny it...

Guilt is one thing, but the guilt trip is an entirely different animal. The appeal to the stick is so overused in this environment that it only works to render the argument, regardless of its validity, ineffective.

 

[homwardbound]

And only then because He graciously gave you ears to hear. If only people could see that all of Christ's miracles involving physical healing go beyond that and all point to a greater spiritual healing. He opens the eyes of the blind so that they can see (understand), unstops the ears of the deaf so that they can hear his call, give strength to weak, lame legs so that they can walk straight in the narrow way that leads to life, loosens the tongues of the dumb so that they can cry out to him, raises the dead and frees them from their fear of death and grave, etc. But it seems so many just cannot see these greater spiritual realities.

That is the same flesh and blood nature that fights God
The two are at war flesh (first birth) to second birth, God's Spirit enlightens, time to see,, yet it takes asking God not me, you or anyone else, Amen to you see, God gave this to you, as Jesus said to Peter, when Peter said he was/is the Messiah. Jesus responded with only his Father could reveal that to him.

 

[Magenta]

Guilt is one thing, but the guilt trip is an entirely different animal. The appeal to the stick is so overused in this environment that it only works to render the argument, regardless of its validity, ineffective.

You render your argument invalid.

 

[Mem]

You render your argument invalid.

So you agree.

 

[Magenta]

So you agree.

If you went on a guilt trip it was of your own doing and not mine.