Visualization in Prayer

[Blackpowderduelist]

You should read the whole Bible. If you really believed it, you would believe the parts that show that God communicates through dreams.

There were false prophets in Jeremiah's time who told dreams from their own flesh.

There is a huge difference between using your imagination to create images and God giving a vision.

 

[presidente]

There is a huge difference between using your imagination to create images and God giving a vision.

Yes but look at the post I was responding to.

 

[crossnote]

You should read the whole Bible. If you really believed it, you would believe the parts that show that God communicates through dreams.

There were false prophets in Jeremiah's time who told dreams from their own flesh.

Read Job 33 and Acts 2. Paul had a vision and so did Peter. He was not opposed to them. The issue is the source.

I've read the whole Bible many times since coming to faith in 1974. I know enough that people get led easily astray by the visions, miracles and dreams of others as they are subtly led astray from the sure source of Truth found in the Scriptures.

1 John 4:1 (KJV) Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

We try the spirits through the plumb line of God's Word working in conjunction with God's Spirit.

I'm done here, especially with those who assumptively assert that another Christian should "read the whole Bible. If you really believed it....". That's a bit infantile in discussions amongst brethren.

 

[Blik]

Another misuse of scripture. So we are not to stand up against false teaching, and deception.
You can't misuse scripture to defend false doctrine.

I wonder what some of you accusers of false doctrine would say if we followed your guidelines to repeating the Lord's Prayer. You preach against any thought that makes a picture, so God must not be thought of as all powerful or a spiritual being. You preach to allow no pictures in your mind as you repeat the words. All adjectives suggest pictures, so to follow your preaching we must know nothing of God. Your preaching would mean we must be sure that when we forgive others we do not have a picture in our mind of who to forgive. Your preaching is off the wall!!!

 

[Platosgal]

Magicians from ancient times used to Visualization conjure spirits and Mesmer -( father of hypnosis ) used to Manipulate his subjects- Visualization is also used in Modern WITCHCRAFT- Eastern Mysticism and Goddess Worship- non of which are new
Here is what the bible says:

Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with everywind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

Yes but look at the post I was responding to.

I have only been responding in relation to the OP, and the defenses of the OP. The tangents that others are taking divert from the subject at hand.
I'm not against any and all visualizations. Of coarse we can picture who we are praying for but we must be careful not to impose our imaginations upon their situation. We also can picture things as described in scripture, green pastures, still waters, brazen burnished feet etc. We find ourselves in danger if we create an imagination conjured image of God. We also find ourselves in danger when we call conjuring up imagination images, prayer in and of itself.
What we have to remember is that prayer is communication, ie talking to God, not imagination exercises to strum our emotions. The idea is that God hears our prayers and then conforms us to his will via the Holy Spirit and his written word. God informs our thinking, this is not done by us day dreaming and conjuring images in our imagination. It's done by meditation on his word, which means to focus on and hold his word in our minds, and by speaking our thoughts and needs to God, so that his word conforms our thoughts to his will.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

I wonder what some of you accusers of false doctrine would say if we followed your guidelines to repeating the Lord's Prayer. You preach against any thought that makes a picture, so God must not be thought of as all powerful or a spiritual being. You preach to allow no pictures in your mind as you repeat the words. All adjectives suggest pictures, so to follow your preaching we must know nothing of God. Your preaching would mean we must be sure that when we forgive others we do not have a picture in our mind of who to forgive. Your preaching is off the wall!!!

My guidelines for the Lord's prayer?
Use it as a teaching tool to teach us to pray as Jesus intended it. That's the only "guidelines" "I" have; the reason that Jesus gave it, so it would be Jesus' idea not mine.

 

[crossnote]

I wonder what some of you accusers of false doctrine would say if we followed your guidelines to repeating the Lord's Prayer. You preach against any thought that makes a picture, so God must not be thought of as all powerful or a spiritual being. You preach to allow no pictures in your mind as you repeat the words. All adjectives suggest pictures, so to follow your preaching we must know nothing of God. Your preaching would mean we must be sure that when we forgive others we do not have a picture in our mind of who to forgive. Your preaching is off the wall!!!

'Accusers of false doctrine"...is this admitting that visualization is false doctrine?

"You preach against any thought that makes an image"..is simply a strawman argument. We're warning against the use of imaginative imagery used for drawing close to God which is not prescribed in the Bible.

You say you are using the Psalms and/or the Lord's Prayer to draw close to God..nothing wrong with that. I prefer to use the way God has laid out before us and that is through the precious blood of Jesus Christ.

I would like to ask you a question.
Why do you call pondering God's Word 'visualization'?. Don't you realize the term has occultic connotations and causes some of us weaker brethren to stumble?

 

[tribesman]

It's then the concept and term of visusalization that is the problem, not someone thinking of Jesus while praying.

 

[presidente]

I've read the whole Bible many times since coming to faith in 1974. I know enough that people get led easily astray by the visions, miracles and dreams of others as they are subtly led astray from the sure source of Truth found in the Scriptures.

1 John 4:1 (KJV) Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

We try the spirits through the plumb line of God's Word working in conjunction with God's Spirit.

Trying the spirits is not the same as saying there shall be no spiritual manifestations to try.

I'm done here, especially with those who assumptively assert that another Christian should "read the whole Bible. If you really believed it....". That's a bit infantile in discussions amongst brethren.

Your line of reasoning was childish, and I was responding to that. A balanced interpretation of scripture recognizes that God can warn men through dreams, that in the last days the Spirit is poured out upon all flesh, which results in prophecy, dreams, and visions, and that the Spirit gifts members of the body of Christ with prophecy and other manifestations of the Spirit as He wills.

 

[presidente]

It's then the concept and term of visusalization that is the problem, not someone thinking of Jesus while praying.

You mean the New Age use and concept? Many people visualize things

 

[Blik]

There is a huge difference between using your imagination to create images and God giving a vision.

I am glad that with your ungodly posts, you finally say something of God. Are you finally done fighting God's ways?

 

[crossnote]

Trying the spirits is not the same as saying there shall be no spiritual manifestations to try.

I would test all, What good is a manifestation if there are no words attached?

Your line of reasoning was childish, and I was responding to that. A balanced interpretation of scripture recognizes that God can warn men through dreams, that in the last days the Spirit is poured out upon all flesh, which results in prophecy, dreams, and visions, and that the Spirit gifts members of the body of Christ with prophecy and other manifestations of the Spirit as He wills.

Even dreams, prophecies, visions etc. need to be tested. Haven't you noticed that it is the false teachers that get most wacked out when challenged?

 

[PaulChristensen]

What has that got to do with approaching the living God?
Visualization involves 'powers' of the mind, setting up imaginative scenarios and believing it will have an effect on reality.

What you are describing is Hindu mind power which is the basis of New Age mysticism.

 

[tourist]

Let us compare the logic in these two sentences:

1. New Agers visualize. So if you visualize, you are a New Ager.
2. New Agers drink water. So if you drink water, you are a New Ager.

Both sentences demonstrate faulty reasoning. Visualizing is a fairly common thing, done by people across cultures and religions. It is not inherently pagan.

I drink Perrier.

 

[PaulChristensen]

Do you actually limit any visual image you allow your mind to have an image of God so you create an idol? If I would say to you "lemon" it would cause you to create an image of God that is like creating an idol? What a miserable life you must lead.

I don't have any image of God in my mind when I pray. He is a Spirit and therefore has no human form on which to base an image.

 

[PaulChristensen]

You are the one visualizing God, changing prayer into something it is not, bringing evil into Christian posts. The Lord will stop you, God will win and these evil ways you are going on and on about will not win. God is on the winning side.

This "prophecy" is false and is taking the Lord's name in vain.

 

[PaulChristensen]

The OP is not out of order. Your vicious attacks and accusations are what is out of order here.

Revelation
12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

the context of the passage you have quoted has nothing to do with visualization. Quoting Scripture out of context is misquoting it.

 

[PaulChristensen]

I immediately read at the top of the linked page..."Unlock the Meaning in all your Dreams...even the Crazy Ones"/ "Free Video Event ...Hearing God Through Your Dreams".

OR

Dream Your Way to Wisdom Complete Discounted Package


Rubbish!

Jeremiah 23:28-29 (KJV) The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD. Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

I agree. "unlocking meaning from dreams, even the crazy ones" is definitely New Age occult, in the same way as "dreaming up" an image of God while praying.

 

[PaulChristensen]

That's a new agey version of it. Picturing something in your mind is also visualizing. Some people do that automatically. It is also normal to do this when reading certain passages, like about the temple.


I did not catch the part about the package they were selling, but God speaking through dreams is certainly a Biblical concept.

In Job 33 we read about how God warns men about their was in Dreams. In the last days old men will dream dreams.

If a dream has to be interpreted to work out its symbolism, then it is not from the Holy Spirit. All the dreams in the New Testament were clear messages and did not require interpretation. Dream Interpretation is atheistic, New Age, and Freudian.