Understanding the Trinity as a doctrine.

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MalikB said:
So we are two persons then?
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MalikB said:
The phrase "which is to come" from verse 8 is connected to the rest of the verse having to with being "Alpha and Omega". The Most High is that which is, was, and will be (which is to come). It has nothing to do with Jesus coming on the clouds in verse 7. Again that is not Jesus speaking in revelation 8:


Revelation 1:7-8

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.


So now with everything in context, we can look at the two controversial verses. It is clear that verse seven is speaking about The Messiah... not only because of him being pierced, but also because verse 1 says this is a revelation of him. However, we learned in verse one that it was The Father through His angel that was giving the Revelation... not The Messiah. This is why verse 7 is not in first person when speaking about Jesus... where as verse 8 is in first person. We also see the phrase "which is, and which was, and which is to come", which belong to a separate being from Jesus as we saw in verses 4-5. Lastly, we have the title "The Almighty" which refers To The Most High many places in scripture, but nowhere is it used to refer to Jesus.
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You are way off base friend. I can not believe your lack of reason. I see you are banned. I will be praying for wisdom for you.
 
MalikB said:
Exactly. Just like the Father and His Holy spirit is only one person. ;)
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One does not send them self.


GRAMMAR
Difference Between Send and Sent
• Categorized under Grammar | Difference Between Send and Sent

Send vs Sent

Examples are: “I am sending my old books to him. I will be sending my old clothes to our church to be given to the victims of the fire.”

The past tense of the word “send” is “sent.” It is also its past simple tense and past participle tense as well as its past progressive tense and past perfect progressive tense. The past tense “sent” indicates an action that has already taken place in the past.

While most verbs form their past tense by adding “ed,” the verb “send” is an irregular verb and has a special past tense form wherein instead of adding “ed,” it changes its spelling. An example is this sentence: “I sent the letter yesterday.”

More examples:
“Please send the money now.” (Present)
“I have been sending the money without fail.” (Perfect Progressive)
“I already sent the money.” (Past)
“I have sent the money last night.” (Past Progressive)
http://www.differencebetween.net/language/grammar-language/difference-between-send-and-sent/
 
justbyfaith said:
Tritheism is inherent in the idea that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are separate rather than distinct.

And, when we say, "The Father is not the Son is not the Holy Ghost" we are teaching that they are separate.

I teach that they are distinct.

That it is the same Spirit who inhabits eternity, without flesh, who descended and took on an added nature of human flesh; and that this is a new Person who is formed in this hypostatic union of Spirit and flesh.

For humanity in Christ changes His personality so that He is not the same Person as the Father; while I don't think that it can be disputed that they are not the same Spirit.

For God is a Spirit (John 4:24); and Jesus is God (Hebrews 1:8-9 (kjv)); therefore He is a Spirit (albeit come in the flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7)).

And, the Father is a Spirit (John 4:23-24).

However, there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4).

I conclude therefore that if you acknowledge that Jesus is God (and that is who He is), you must also acknowledge that Jesus and the Father are the same Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:4).
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tri·the·ism
/trīˈTHēˌizəm/
noun
(in Christian theology) the doctrine of or belief in the three persons of the Trinity as three distinct gods

Do you really believe the Trinity is three gods? Are you former LDS?
 
TheLearner said:
tri·the·ism
/trīˈTHēˌizəm/
noun
(in Christian theology) the doctrine of or belief in the three persons of the Trinity as three distinct gods

Do you really believe the Trinity is three gods? Are you former LDS?
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I have mentioned before that when people teach that the Father is not the Son is not the Holy Ghost that they are teaching that the members of the Trinity are separate rather than distinct.

And when they do that, they are preaching Tritheism.
 
@TheLearner,

I have a background in Oneness; so I consider that some Trinitarians, who do not properly understand the Trinity, have erred in their theology towards the error of Tritheism in their understanding; which has to do with their inward thoughts about God.

They may indeed with their mouth say that they believe in one God when in all reality their inward thought is that there are three Gods: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

This is evidenced by the theology that says that Jesus was begotten eternally and is a separate Person from the Father; and that the Father didn't descend to become a Man but that it was only the Son; and that therefore the Son / the Word is actually 1/3 of God or else a 2nd God.

I believe that Jesus was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35) and that this understanding greatly affects our understanding of the Triune nature of our God.
 
justbyfaith said:
I have mentioned before that when people teach that the Father is not the Son is not the Holy Ghost that they are teaching that the members of the Trinity are separate rather than distinct.

And when they do that, they are preaching Tritheism.
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When one is saying they are not each other, they are saying they are different persons within One God, not then three gods.

Thanks for the nice reply,
Daniel
 
justbyfaith said:
@TheLearner,

I have a background in Oneness; so I consider that some Trinitarians, who do not properly understand the Trinity, have erred in their theology towards the error of Tritheism in their understanding; which has to do with their inward thoughts about God.

They may indeed with their mouth say that they believe in one God when in all reality their inward thought is that there are three Gods: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

This is evidenced by the theology that says that Jesus was begotten eternally and is a separate Person from the Father; and that the Father didn't descend to become a Man but that it was only the Son; and that therefore the Son / the Word is actually 1/3 of God or else a 2nd God.

I believe that Jesus was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35) and that this understanding greatly affects our understanding of the Triune nature of our God.
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The only begotten thing comes from a miss-translation of Greek word monogenes which we know today simply means only unique Son. Augustine to my knowledge was the first to teach eternal generation.

Isaiah 43:10
English Standard Version
10 “You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord,
“and my servant whom I have chosen,
that you may know and believe me
and understand that I am he.
Before me no god was formed,
nor shall there be any after me.
 
TheLearner said:
When one is saying they are not each other, they are saying they are different persons within One God, not then three gods.

Thanks for the nice reply,
Daniel
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Yes, the Son is in fact a distinct Person from the Father in that the Father is a Spirit without flesh while the Son is come in the flesh.

While they are the same Spirit (John 4:23-24, Ephesians 4:4).

But I think that I have worn this out in recent days.

It should be clear what my doctrine is by this point.
 
TheLearner said:
Simple proof: The word With means Face to Face in John 1:1, Multiple appearance of persons at the same time or referenced as such.
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Could you elaborate?

I am not sure what your point is
justbyfaith said:
I have mentioned before that when people teach that the Father is not the Son is not the Holy Ghost that they are teaching that the members of the Trinity are separate rather than distinct.

And when they do that, they are preaching Tritheism.
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Ok that must be why you are all over the page.
Why you stumble at heb 1. And rev where the son ( one person) takes the scroll out of the HAND of the Father (another separate person)
 
Ok we can clearly see that there are 3 Gods, deities according to the bible.

Yet there is one God.

All bible and solid truth.

Enter the corruption of the human mind.
It makes no sense.
News flash...
......it never will.
Never was intended to.
The bible is written by Gods Spirit.

Not a human psyche.

It is revealed.

Not figured out.
 
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