Understanding the Trinity as a doctrine.
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I think what you are really trying to say is that the position the church (that is the body of christ) holds as biblical and truthful, is in actual fact heresy! You've hinted at this before.
What you are referring to in your question has been rejected a long time ago as heresy both tritheism and Partialism.. Both are heresy and not descriptors of the triune God of the Bible Hope that answers your question.
Who's "we"?
If you are talking about you and me, of course we are two persons. That is a given.
I asked you if Ahab was sad or was his spirit sad... you said "both". So is Ahab and his spirit two persons?
Jesus is the person who is coming, returning to earth, thus from context Rev 1:8 is about Jesus, not the Father. See verse 7 Look, Jesus is coming with the clouds!
Revelation 1
Easy-to-Read Version
John Tells About This Book
1 This is a revelation[Unveiling] from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must happen soon. And Christ sent his angel to show it to his servant John, 2 who has told everything he saw. It is the truth that Jesus Christ told him; it is the message from God. 3 Great blessings belong to the person who reads the words of this message from God and to those who hear this message and do what is written in it. There is not much time left.
John Writes to the Churches
4 From John,
To the seven churches in the province of Asia:
Grace and peace to you from the one who is, who always was, and who is coming; and from the seven spirits before his throne; 5 and from Jesus Christ. Jesus is the faithful witness. He is first among all who will be raised from death. He is the ruler of the kings of the earth.
Jesus is the one who loves us and has made us free from our sins with his blood sacrifice. 6 He made us his kingdom and priests who serve God his Father. To Jesus be glory and power forever and ever! Amen.
7 Look, Jesus is coming with the clouds! Everyone will see him, even those who pierced him. All peoples of the earth will cry loudly because of him. Yes, this will happen! Amen.
8 The Lord God says, “I am the Alpha and the Omega.[c] I am the one who is, who always was, and who is coming. I am the All-Powerful.”
9 I am John, your fellow believer. We are together in Jesus, and we share these things: suffering, the kingdom, and patient endurance. I was on the island of Patmos[d] because I was faithful to God’s message and to the truth of Jesus. 10 On the Lord’s Day, the Spirit took control of me. I heard a loud voice behind me that sounded like a trumpet. 11 It said, “Write down in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
12 I turned to see who was talking to me. When I turned, I saw seven golden lampstands. 13 I saw someone among the lampstands who looked like the Son of Man. He was dressed in a long robe, with a golden sash tied around his chest. 14 His head and hair were white like wool—wool that is white as snow. His eyes were like flames of fire. 15 His feet were like brass that glows hot in a furnace. His voice was like the noise of flooding water. 16 He held seven stars in his right hand. A sharp two-edged sword came out of his mouth. He looked like the sun shining at its brightest time.
17 When I saw him, I fell down at his feet like a dead man. He put his right hand on me and said, “Don’t be afraid! I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the one who lives. I was dead, but look, I am alive forever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. 19 So write what you see. Write the things that happen now and the things that will happen later. 20 Here is the hidden meaning of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and the seven golden lampstands that you saw: The seven lampstands are the seven churches. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches.
Footnotes
Revelation 1:1 revelation An opening up (making known) of truth that was hidden.
Revelation 1:7 pierced When Jesus was killed, he was stabbed with a spear in the side. See Jn. 19:34.
Revelation 1:8 Alpha … Omega The first and last letters in the Greek alphabet, meaning the beginning and the end.
Revelation 1:9 Patmos A small island in the Aegean Sea, near the coast of modern Turkey.
Jude 1
Revelation 2
Tritheism is inherent in the idea that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are separate rather than distinct.
And, when we say, "The Father is not the Son is not the Holy Ghost" we are teaching that they are separate.
I teach that they are distinct.
That it is the same Spirit who inhabits eternity, without flesh, who descended and took on an added nature of human flesh; and that this is a new Person who is formed in this hypostatic union of Spirit and flesh.
For humanity in Christ changes His personality so that He is not the same Person as the Father; while I don't think that it can be disputed that they are not the same Spirit.
For God is a Spirit (John 4:24); and Jesus is God (Hebrews 1:8-9 (kjv)); therefore He is a Spirit (albeit come in the flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7)).
And, the Father is a Spirit (John 4:23-24).
However, there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4).
I conclude therefore that if you acknowledge that Jesus is God (and that is who He is), you must also acknowledge that Jesus and the Father are the same Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:4).
The phrase "which is to come" from verse 8 is connected to the rest of the verse having to with being "Alpha and Omega". The Most High is that which is, was, and will be (which is to come). It has nothing to do with Jesus coming on the clouds in verse 7. Again that is not Jesus speaking in revelation 8:
Revelation 1:7-8
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
So now with everything in context, we can look at the two controversial verses. It is clear that verse seven is speaking about The Messiah... not only because of him being pierced, but also because verse 1 says this is a revelation of him. However, we learned in verse one that it was The Father through His angel that was giving the Revelation... not The Messiah. This is why verse 7 is not in first person when speaking about Jesus... where as verse 8 is in first person. We also see the phrase "which is, and which was, and which is to come", which belong to a separate being from Jesus as we saw in verses 4-5. Lastly, we have the title "The Almighty" which refers To The Most High many places in scripture, but nowhere is it used to refer to Jesus.
I would encourage the reader to disregard any teaching that denies the Trinity. For it is instruction that causes one to err / go astray from the words of knowledge (Proverbs 19:27).
Nope
I debunked it with that rev verse.
Stuck your nose in it.
And you omitted it.
Pure baloney.Exactly. Just like the Father and His Holy spirit is only one person.
I have never disagreed with that. I have only contended that the Holy Ghost is a Person (Romans 8:26-27) and also God (Acts 5:3-4).Exactly. Just like the Father and His Holy spirit is only one person.
Of course, the Holy Ghost is distinct from the Father in that He was released from the body of Jesus (Luke 23:46) and has lived a human life.
Therefore, He has the experiential knowledge of being human; whereas the pre-incarnate Father, as He dwelleth in eternity (Isaiah 57:15), doesn't.
And also, the Holy Ghost is God the Spirit as He has descended and ascended.
Whereas God the Father is God before He descended.
Neverthtless, the Holy Ghost's attitude and position is that He brings glory to the Father and the Son rather than Himself.
As I have said, i do not deny that the Son is distinct from the Father.
Jesus Christ is (the Father) come in the flesh. Isaiah 9:6.
In order to deny rhis, you have to change the scripture in question, not once, but twice.
See Acts 24:14 (kjv).
I'm in good company with Paul because of your accusation.
Nevertheless, what you call "my heretical mess" is both logical, biblical, and simple.
