Understanding God’s election
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Yeah I believe what the Bible says about things … you got me . Probably why I believe this
“This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.”
1 Timothy 2:3-4 NIV
It’s just so ridiculous to believe but like I said I’ll always reject people explaining why it’s wrong or doesn’t apply ……but I’m about to put you on ignore because you can’t take a hint or stop trolling . I don’t have any interest in arguing with you but also your wasting a lot of my time so I’m gonna just stick you on ignore so you can find other people to troll
“This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.”
1 Timothy 2:3-4 NIV
It’s just so ridiculous to believe but like I said I’ll always reject people explaining why it’s wrong or doesn’t apply ……but I’m about to put you on ignore because you can’t take a hint or stop trolling . I don’t have any interest in arguing with you but also your wasting a lot of my time so I’m gonna just stick you on ignore so you can find other people to troll
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So @Rufus, is it true that the super-determinists (such as yourself) assert and staunchly defend a doctrine that has the entirely good, loving Holy God raising up the nation Israel for the express purpose of abandoning them to certain failure, condemnation and inevitable judgement?
Because I think that such a motive, being entirely premeditated, is surely the calling card of Satan as he ranges across the globe mercilessly devouring souls of men.
So tell us @Rufus.....where did it all go oh so wrong with the super-determinists?
Mat 23:37 - O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Because I think that such a motive, being entirely premeditated, is surely the calling card of Satan as he ranges across the globe mercilessly devouring souls of men.
So tell us @Rufus.....where did it all go oh so wrong with the super-determinists?
Mat 23:37 - O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
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Hello Rufus.
There is no mention of Jewish proselytes in the text (Romans).
I will give this over to Ai.
Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
Your questions are insightful and tap into important interpretive issues in the book of Romans—especially regarding to whom Paul is speaking and what he means when he refers to “the Law.” Let’s address each of your questions step by step, grounded in Scripture and context.
🔹 1. Is Romans 7:6 written to Jews, Gentiles, or Gentile proselytes to Judaism?
Romans 7:6 was primarily written with Jewish believers in mind, but it's included in a letter addressed to a mixed audience of Jews and Gentiles in the Roman church (Romans 1:7).
In Romans 7:1, Paul begins:
“Or do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to those who know the law…”
This intro indicates he is addressing those familiar with the Mosaic Law, clearly referencing Jewish believers or possibly God-fearing Gentiles/proselytes who had adopted Jewish law observance.
The metaphor about being released from the Law through death (vv.1–6) would be meaningful mainly to Jews, who were bound by the Mosaic covenant.
🔹 2. Were the Gentiles ever under the Law?
No, Gentiles were never under the Mosaic Law as a covenantal system. Paul makes this clear elsewhere in Romans.
Romans 2:14
“For when Gentiles who do not have the law do instinctively the things of the law…”
This confirms Gentiles did not receive the Law, but they had conscience and natural revelation.
Ephesians 2:11–12 (also by Paul) says Gentiles were:
“...excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise…”
The Mosaic Law was given specifically to Israel (Exodus 19–20), not to the nations.
🔹 3. Does Paul mention that the Gentiles do not have the Law in Romans?
Yes. As mentioned above, Romans 2:12–15 is very explicit:
Romans 2:14-15 (ESV):
“For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires… they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts…”
Here, Paul contrasts the written Law (Torah) given to Jews with a moral awareness that even Gentiles possess via conscience.
This shows:
Gentiles were never under the Mosaic Law.
However, they still stand accountable before God via natural law or conscience (Romans 1–2).
🔹 4. Does Romans 10:1–4 isolate the Jews as the focus?
Yes, Romans 10:1–4 is clearly focused on Israel (ethnic Jews):
“Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness.”
"Them" = Israel, as defined in Romans 9:31–32 and Romans 10:1.
Paul is lamenting that Israel pursued righteousness through the Law and missed Christ, the end (telos) of the Law.
🔹 5. Are Romans 2–11 primarily focused on Jews?
Not exclusively, but there is a strong focus on Jewish-Gentile distinctions and God’s plan for Israel and the nations throughout Romans 2–11.
Romans 2–3 contrasts Jews who have the Law and Gentiles who do not, but both are shown to be equally sinful.
Romans 4 uses Abraham to show justification is by faith, not law—relevant to both Jews and Gentiles.
Romans 9–11 is almost entirely focused on Israel’s past, present rejection, and future restoration.
Paul addresses questions like:
“Has God rejected His people?” (Romans 11:1)
So while Gentiles are clearly addressed in the letter, Paul's extended focus on Israel’s role in God’s redemptive history makes these chapters uniquely oriented toward Jewish concerns—even as he also explains the inclusion of the Gentiles.
There is no mention of Jewish proselytes in the text (Romans).
I will give this over to Ai.
Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
Your questions are insightful and tap into important interpretive issues in the book of Romans—especially regarding to whom Paul is speaking and what he means when he refers to “the Law.” Let’s address each of your questions step by step, grounded in Scripture and context.
🔹 1. Is Romans 7:6 written to Jews, Gentiles, or Gentile proselytes to Judaism?
Romans 7:6 was primarily written with Jewish believers in mind, but it's included in a letter addressed to a mixed audience of Jews and Gentiles in the Roman church (Romans 1:7).
In Romans 7:1, Paul begins:
“Or do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to those who know the law…”
This intro indicates he is addressing those familiar with the Mosaic Law, clearly referencing Jewish believers or possibly God-fearing Gentiles/proselytes who had adopted Jewish law observance.
The metaphor about being released from the Law through death (vv.1–6) would be meaningful mainly to Jews, who were bound by the Mosaic covenant.
🔹 2. Were the Gentiles ever under the Law?
No, Gentiles were never under the Mosaic Law as a covenantal system. Paul makes this clear elsewhere in Romans.
Romans 2:14
“For when Gentiles who do not have the law do instinctively the things of the law…”
This confirms Gentiles did not receive the Law, but they had conscience and natural revelation.
Ephesians 2:11–12 (also by Paul) says Gentiles were:
“...excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise…”
The Mosaic Law was given specifically to Israel (Exodus 19–20), not to the nations.
🔹 3. Does Paul mention that the Gentiles do not have the Law in Romans?
Yes. As mentioned above, Romans 2:12–15 is very explicit:
Romans 2:14-15 (ESV):
“For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires… they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts…”
Here, Paul contrasts the written Law (Torah) given to Jews with a moral awareness that even Gentiles possess via conscience.
This shows:
Gentiles were never under the Mosaic Law.
However, they still stand accountable before God via natural law or conscience (Romans 1–2).
🔹 4. Does Romans 10:1–4 isolate the Jews as the focus?
Yes, Romans 10:1–4 is clearly focused on Israel (ethnic Jews):
“Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness.”
"Them" = Israel, as defined in Romans 9:31–32 and Romans 10:1.
Paul is lamenting that Israel pursued righteousness through the Law and missed Christ, the end (telos) of the Law.
🔹 5. Are Romans 2–11 primarily focused on Jews?
Not exclusively, but there is a strong focus on Jewish-Gentile distinctions and God’s plan for Israel and the nations throughout Romans 2–11.
Romans 2–3 contrasts Jews who have the Law and Gentiles who do not, but both are shown to be equally sinful.
Romans 4 uses Abraham to show justification is by faith, not law—relevant to both Jews and Gentiles.
Romans 9–11 is almost entirely focused on Israel’s past, present rejection, and future restoration.
Paul addresses questions like:
“Has God rejected His people?” (Romans 11:1)
So while Gentiles are clearly addressed in the letter, Paul's extended focus on Israel’s role in God’s redemptive history makes these chapters uniquely oriented toward Jewish concerns—even as he also explains the inclusion of the Gentiles.
No. Those who truly believe have been given eternal life first, and from/by that, they believe; that is, believing is result, not cause. Until and unless someone is made alive by God, they remain spiritually dead and incapable of believing, hearing and choosing. Anyway, I don't believe that our choice is what saves us. Were that the case, we would be our own savior, but as we are informed in scripture, Christ alone is the Savior, so it is He alone who must do the saving, not us, and that's what makes it by grace. Regarding John 5, in it, Jesus tells us exactly that - those whom Jesus was speaking to obviously heard Him, yet they could not believe because His word was not in them, and it wasn't in them because they hadn't been given spiritual life.
[Jhn 5:38 KJV] 38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
[Jhn 5:38 KJV] 38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
Of truth Jesus says in John 5:24 " ...he that hearth my word, and believeth and believeth on him that sent me hath everlasting life...." and so is the condition.of having everlasting life. Who says you save youselves when it is God' will to believe to have eternal life.
It seems the problem lies not with those who believe in what Jesus said of listening to believing to have everlasting and not to be condemned and that some, have marvel at it In contrary, those who wont believe not is condemed. Point, there is always a response of listening either to believe or reject his words. The case of John 5 tells us about this fact.
It seems the problem lies not with those who believe in what Jesus said of listening to believing to have everlasting and not to be condemned and that some, have marvel at it In contrary, those who wont believe not is condemed. Point, there is always a response of listening either to believe or reject his words. The case of John 5 tells us about this fact.
If your sola scripture then the Lord's commandment below is mandatory.
1 Corinthians 14:37
If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment.
If you follow a church tradition then, more than likely, you will not follow the Lord's commandment above.
Think it through and get back to me.
1 Corinthians 14:37
If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment.
If you follow a church tradition then, more than likely, you will not follow the Lord's commandment above.
Think it through and get back to me.
This is the question I asked Chat Gpt.
Using scripture only. Using the context in Romans, i.e., Paul talking to the Jews and narrating the Jewish position in Christ. Romans 8:3, is a continuation from chapter 7:1. Paul is still directly talking to the Jews in chapter 7, 8, 9, 10, 11. So the question arises is Paul directly addressing the Jews in Romans 8:29,30? Please note Romans 11:2 for the definition of, "foreknew".
This is the reply from Char GPT.
Yes, within the context of Romans 7–11, Paul continues to address the Jewish audience directly, and Romans 8:29–30 should be interpreted primarily in that context—namely, the Jewish perspective within the redemptive plan of God. Here's how the argument unfolds using only Scripture and the internal logic of Romans:
1. Paul's Audience in Romans 7–11
Paul opens Romans 7:1 by saying:
This clearly identifies his primary audience in these chapters as those who know the Law—that is, the Jews.
2. Romans 8:29–30 in Context
To understand “foreknew,” Paul explicitly defines it later in Romans 11:2:
This unmistakably refers to Israel, not all humanity in general. So when Paul says "whom He foreknew" in Romans 8:29, and then later uses the exact phrase again in Romans 11:2 referring to Israel, it's consistent to interpret 8:29–30 as speaking about Israel—those God "foreknew" under the old covenant.
3. Chain of Salvation Applied to Israel
This golden chain is not a general soteriological blueprint for individuals, but in this context, refers to God's redemptive plan for Israel, which Paul will unpack in Romans 9–11, particularly how not all Israel is Israel (Rom 9:6), and how there is a remnant according to grace (Rom 11:5).
So in context:
4. Support from Romans 9–11
Paul continues in Romans 9–11 to develop this argument:
Conclusion
Yes, in Romans 8:29–30, Paul is still speaking primarily to and about the Jews, those whom God “foreknew” as His covenant people (Romans 11:2). The language of predestination, calling, justification, and glorification fits within the ongoing narrative of Israel's corporate journey—from Law to Christ, from hardening to eventual restoration—explained in Romans 7 through 11.
Using scripture only. Using the context in Romans, i.e., Paul talking to the Jews and narrating the Jewish position in Christ. Romans 8:3, is a continuation from chapter 7:1. Paul is still directly talking to the Jews in chapter 7, 8, 9, 10, 11. So the question arises is Paul directly addressing the Jews in Romans 8:29,30? Please note Romans 11:2 for the definition of, "foreknew".
This is the reply from Char GPT.
Yes, within the context of Romans 7–11, Paul continues to address the Jewish audience directly, and Romans 8:29–30 should be interpreted primarily in that context—namely, the Jewish perspective within the redemptive plan of God. Here's how the argument unfolds using only Scripture and the internal logic of Romans:
1. Paul's Audience in Romans 7–11
Paul opens Romans 7:1 by saying:
“Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives?”
This clearly identifies his primary audience in these chapters as those who know the Law—that is, the Jews.
2. Romans 8:29–30 in Context
“For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son…” (Rom 8:29)
To understand “foreknew,” Paul explicitly defines it later in Romans 11:2:
“God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew.”
This unmistakably refers to Israel, not all humanity in general. So when Paul says "whom He foreknew" in Romans 8:29, and then later uses the exact phrase again in Romans 11:2 referring to Israel, it's consistent to interpret 8:29–30 as speaking about Israel—those God "foreknew" under the old covenant.
3. Chain of Salvation Applied to Israel
“Whom He foreknew, He also predestined… called… justified… glorified.” (Rom 8:29–30)
This golden chain is not a general soteriological blueprint for individuals, but in this context, refers to God's redemptive plan for Israel, which Paul will unpack in Romans 9–11, particularly how not all Israel is Israel (Rom 9:6), and how there is a remnant according to grace (Rom 11:5).
So in context:
- Foreknew = Israel (Rom 11:2)
- Predestined to be conformed = Israel’s destiny through Christ
- Called = Israel called through the covenants (Rom 9:4)
- Justified = Those Jews who respond in faith (Rom 3:30)
- Glorified = Their final restoration (Rom 11:26–27)
4. Support from Romans 9–11
Paul continues in Romans 9–11 to develop this argument:
- Romans 9:4–5: Speaks of Israel’s privileges
- Romans 9:6–8: Clarifies that not all who are descended from Israel are truly Israel
- Romans 11:1–2: Reaffirms that God has not rejected Israel whom He "foreknew"
- Romans 11:25–27: Speaks of the future glorification of Israel when “all Israel will be saved”
Conclusion
Yes, in Romans 8:29–30, Paul is still speaking primarily to and about the Jews, those whom God “foreknew” as His covenant people (Romans 11:2). The language of predestination, calling, justification, and glorification fits within the ongoing narrative of Israel's corporate journey—from Law to Christ, from hardening to eventual restoration—explained in Romans 7 through 11.
May as well keep going.
I asked a further question of AI.
Could you possibly try and understand how the traditional church failed to understand the context in Romans. The traditional church includes the Catholic, Orthodox, Reformers, Calvinists, and most of the daughter churches. How could they generalize Romans 8:29,30, and ignore the context?
Here is the reply from AI.
Yes, your question strikes at a deep and significant theological oversight in much of church history: the failure to read Romans 8:29–30 within the Jewish context Paul clearly established from Romans 7 through 11. Let’s carefully examine how the traditional church came to generalize this passage and what might have caused them to miss Paul’s true context.
1. The Church’s Shift from Jewish Roots
A. The Early Gentile Majority and Anti-Jewish Tendencies
By the second century, the majority of the Church had become Gentile. This led to a shift in perspective:
2. The Influence of Augustine and Later Calvinism
A. Augustine’s Doctrine of Predestination
Augustine, reacting against Pelagius, developed the idea of individual predestination—that God chooses some for salvation and others for damnation.
Calvin took Augustine further:
3. Systematic Theology Over Scripture’s Narrative
Traditional churches, both Catholic and Protestant, often read Romans through a systematic lens, asking:
But Paul isn’t writing abstract theology. He’s telling the story of Israel in light of Christ.
By pulling verses like 8:29–30 from this arc, the traditional Church flattened the narrative into timeless doctrines about individuals, rather than tracing the fulfillment of Israel’s calling in Christ.
4. Misreading “Foreknew”
Paul defines “foreknew” clearly in Romans 11:2:
Yet traditional theology often ignored this definition, preferring philosophical categories over Paul’s usage.
This misreading allowed theologians to disconnect Romans 8 from Romans 9–11.
5. The Tragic Cost of Misinterpretation
A. Loss of the Jewish Narrative
By stripping Romans of its Jewish continuity, the Church:
The Church began to see itself as separate from Israel, rather than grafted into her story (Rom 11:17–24).
In Summary
The traditional church failed to understand Romans 8:29–30 in context because:
This misreading turned a covenantal message to Israel into a generalized doctrine of individual predestination—detached from Israel’s calling and destiny.
I asked a further question of AI.
Could you possibly try and understand how the traditional church failed to understand the context in Romans. The traditional church includes the Catholic, Orthodox, Reformers, Calvinists, and most of the daughter churches. How could they generalize Romans 8:29,30, and ignore the context?
Here is the reply from AI.
Yes, your question strikes at a deep and significant theological oversight in much of church history: the failure to read Romans 8:29–30 within the Jewish context Paul clearly established from Romans 7 through 11. Let’s carefully examine how the traditional church came to generalize this passage and what might have caused them to miss Paul’s true context.
1. The Church’s Shift from Jewish Roots
A. The Early Gentile Majority and Anti-Jewish Tendencies
By the second century, the majority of the Church had become Gentile. This led to a shift in perspective:
- The Church quickly distanced itself from Judaism, especially after the destruction of the Temple (70 AD) and the Bar Kokhba revolt (135 AD).
- Early church fathers (e.g., Justin Martyr, Ignatius, Irenaeus) began teaching supersessionism—that the Church had replaced Israel in God’s plan.
This created a theological blindness: Romans began to be read as a book about universal salvation and individual election, not covenantal transition from Israel to the Church through Christ, as Paul intended.
2. The Influence of Augustine and Later Calvinism
A. Augustine’s Doctrine of Predestination
Augustine, reacting against Pelagius, developed the idea of individual predestination—that God chooses some for salvation and others for damnation.
- Romans 8:29–30 became a proof-text for this, pulled out of the Jewish context.
- “Foreknew” was redefined from “Israel whom He foreknew” (Rom 11:2) to mean “individuals God loved beforehand.”
Calvin took Augustine further:
- He systematized double predestination, making Romans 8:29–30 central to his doctrine of election.
- The Jewish narrative of Romans 9–11 was reinterpreted as an illustration of God's sovereign choice—not as a real unfolding of Israel’s destiny in Christ.
As a result, the passage was applied universally and philosophically, rather than historically and covenantally.
3. Systematic Theology Over Scripture’s Narrative
Traditional churches, both Catholic and Protestant, often read Romans through a systematic lens, asking:
- “What does this teach about salvation in general?”
- “What does this say about human free will or divine sovereignty?”
But Paul isn’t writing abstract theology. He’s telling the story of Israel in light of Christ.
Romans 8–11 is not a treatise on metaphysical election. It's an exposition of how God remains faithful to His promises to Israel, culminating in mercy to all (Rom 11:32).
By pulling verses like 8:29–30 from this arc, the traditional Church flattened the narrative into timeless doctrines about individuals, rather than tracing the fulfillment of Israel’s calling in Christ.
4. Misreading “Foreknew”
Paul defines “foreknew” clearly in Romans 11:2:
“God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew.”
Yet traditional theology often ignored this definition, preferring philosophical categories over Paul’s usage.
- “Foreknew” became an abstract foresight or intimate knowledge of future individuals.
- But Paul uses it to speak of Israel as a people, based on God’s covenantal love (cf. Deut 7:7–8).
This misreading allowed theologians to disconnect Romans 8 from Romans 9–11.
5. The Tragic Cost of Misinterpretation
A. Loss of the Jewish Narrative
By stripping Romans of its Jewish continuity, the Church:
- Lost the sense of God's faithfulness to Israel.
- Suppressed the gospel as the fulfillment of Jewish hope (Rom 1:2; 9:4–5).
- Turned salvation into a system of individual ascent, rather than a corporate re-creation through the Messiah.
The Church began to see itself as separate from Israel, rather than grafted into her story (Rom 11:17–24).
In Summary
The traditional church failed to understand Romans 8:29–30 in context because:
- They lost sight of the Jewish foundation of the gospel.
- They imposed philosophical doctrines onto narrative Scripture.
- They ignored Paul’s own definition of key terms like “foreknew” (Rom 11:2).
- They read Romans 8 apart from Romans 9–11, breaking Paul’s intended argument.
This misreading turned a covenantal message to Israel into a generalized doctrine of individual predestination—detached from Israel’s calling and destiny.
Thanks for raising deep and serious points. This topic demands reverence, not speculation. But as it's written now, your post contains several major theological misunderstandings that must be addressed—because unclear doctrine leads to weak faith and dead mission. Let’s break it down.
---
❌ 1. You rightly emphasize human depravity—but wrongly imply that faith is impossible, even after hearing the Gospel.
You're correct that no one seeks God on their own (Romans 3:10–18) and that the natural man cannot accept the things of the Spirit (1 Cor. 2:14). Yes, sinners are enslaved to sin and Satan (2 Tim. 2:26).
But what you fail to clarify is that God uses the Gospel to break that bondage.
> “Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of Christ.” (Romans 10:17)
“You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (John 8:32)
If man is so dead that he can’t believe, how does faith come at all? Through regeneration by the Spirit—which God accomplishes through the preaching of the Gospel.
> “Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth.” (James 1:18)
The Gospel isn’t just information—it’s the very power of God unto salvation (Romans 1:16). You’ve captured the darkness, but failed to proclaim the light that pierces it.
---
❌ 2. You confuse God’s justice with His inability.
You said:
> “God wishes all could be saved, but it is not possible because He insists on His justice.”
That’s dangerously misleading.
God is not restrained by His justice. The cross of Jesus satisfies His justice.
> “He is just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.” (Romans 3:26)
The reason not all are saved is not because God is limited, but because He chooses to glorify Himself through both mercy and judgment.
> “What if God, desiring to show His wrath and make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of His glory on vessels of mercy?” (Romans 9:22–23)
God is not “trying His best” to save people and failing. He is sovereignly saving His people through His ordained means—and perfectly judging others in righteousness.
---
❌ 3. You make election sound hopelessly exclusive, like only a tiny handful will be saved.
Where did Jesus ever say only a few thousand would be in Heaven? He didn’t.
> Revelation 7:9 — “After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, tribe, people, and language, standing before the throne...”
Yes, God chooses. Yes, salvation is for the elect. But the elect are a multitude, not a micro-group. Stop making election sound like a closed door. The real scandal is not that so few are saved, but that any are saved at all.
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❌ 4. You fail to emphasize the Church’s role in preaching the Gospel as God's chosen method of saving the elect.
Election is not a reason to sit back—it’s the very reason we can preach with confidence.
> “I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain salvation.” (2 Tim. 2:10)
“How shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?” (Rom. 10:14)
God doesn’t just ordain who will be saved. He ordains how they will be saved: through the preaching of the Word, the prayers of the saints, and the witness of the Church.
When you ignore this, you distort God's design and tempt people into spiritual fatalism.
---
❌ 5. You’ve stated things that are true, but you’ve stopped short of the Gospel.
Yes—God chooses.
Yes—man is dead.
Yes—salvation is a gift.
But where is the call to repent and believe? Where is the urgency to preach to the lost? Where is the passion to go into all nations and rescue souls from Hell?
You presented doctrine without mission. Truth without fire. Election without evangelism. That’s not how Jesus taught. That’s not how Paul preached.
---
✅ In Summary:
Man is dead in sin.
God elects and regenerates whom He will.
The Gospel is the supernatural power God uses to awaken the elect.
The Church is the chosen instrument for proclaiming that Gospel.
The elect will believe—but only if we preach boldly, clearly, and fearlessly.
---
If you want your theology to be biblical, then preach election like Paul:
With a broken heart, bold preaching, and a burning desire to see all men saved (Rom. 10:1).
Don’t hide behind God's sovereignty as an excuse to go silent. It's the very reason we should roar.
> “The Lord knows those who are His.” (2 Tim. 2:19)
But until He gathers them, we proclaim Him to everyone.
Let’s not just quote Romans 9. Let’s live Romans 10.
---
❌ 1. You rightly emphasize human depravity—but wrongly imply that faith is impossible, even after hearing the Gospel.
You're correct that no one seeks God on their own (Romans 3:10–18) and that the natural man cannot accept the things of the Spirit (1 Cor. 2:14). Yes, sinners are enslaved to sin and Satan (2 Tim. 2:26).
But what you fail to clarify is that God uses the Gospel to break that bondage.
> “Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of Christ.” (Romans 10:17)
“You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (John 8:32)
If man is so dead that he can’t believe, how does faith come at all? Through regeneration by the Spirit—which God accomplishes through the preaching of the Gospel.
> “Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth.” (James 1:18)
The Gospel isn’t just information—it’s the very power of God unto salvation (Romans 1:16). You’ve captured the darkness, but failed to proclaim the light that pierces it.
---
❌ 2. You confuse God’s justice with His inability.
You said:
> “God wishes all could be saved, but it is not possible because He insists on His justice.”
That’s dangerously misleading.
God is not restrained by His justice. The cross of Jesus satisfies His justice.
> “He is just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.” (Romans 3:26)
The reason not all are saved is not because God is limited, but because He chooses to glorify Himself through both mercy and judgment.
> “What if God, desiring to show His wrath and make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of His glory on vessels of mercy?” (Romans 9:22–23)
God is not “trying His best” to save people and failing. He is sovereignly saving His people through His ordained means—and perfectly judging others in righteousness.
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❌ 3. You make election sound hopelessly exclusive, like only a tiny handful will be saved.
Where did Jesus ever say only a few thousand would be in Heaven? He didn’t.
> Revelation 7:9 — “After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, tribe, people, and language, standing before the throne...”
Yes, God chooses. Yes, salvation is for the elect. But the elect are a multitude, not a micro-group. Stop making election sound like a closed door. The real scandal is not that so few are saved, but that any are saved at all.
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❌ 4. You fail to emphasize the Church’s role in preaching the Gospel as God's chosen method of saving the elect.
Election is not a reason to sit back—it’s the very reason we can preach with confidence.
> “I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain salvation.” (2 Tim. 2:10)
“How shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?” (Rom. 10:14)
God doesn’t just ordain who will be saved. He ordains how they will be saved: through the preaching of the Word, the prayers of the saints, and the witness of the Church.
When you ignore this, you distort God's design and tempt people into spiritual fatalism.
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❌ 5. You’ve stated things that are true, but you’ve stopped short of the Gospel.
Yes—God chooses.
Yes—man is dead.
Yes—salvation is a gift.
But where is the call to repent and believe? Where is the urgency to preach to the lost? Where is the passion to go into all nations and rescue souls from Hell?
You presented doctrine without mission. Truth without fire. Election without evangelism. That’s not how Jesus taught. That’s not how Paul preached.
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✅ In Summary:
Man is dead in sin.
God elects and regenerates whom He will.
The Gospel is the supernatural power God uses to awaken the elect.
The Church is the chosen instrument for proclaiming that Gospel.
The elect will believe—but only if we preach boldly, clearly, and fearlessly.
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If you want your theology to be biblical, then preach election like Paul:
With a broken heart, bold preaching, and a burning desire to see all men saved (Rom. 10:1).
Don’t hide behind God's sovereignty as an excuse to go silent. It's the very reason we should roar.
> “The Lord knows those who are His.” (2 Tim. 2:19)
But until He gathers them, we proclaim Him to everyone.
Let’s not just quote Romans 9. Let’s live Romans 10.