Understanding God’s election
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I purposely quoted from the same chapter you did a little further along
“For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
( if you keep reading ) …and let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”
Hebrews 10:14, 24-31
how do you seperate one thing being said to them and then the other said to the same people or are we supposed to “ divide out “ the things we don’t like ?
“For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
( if you keep reading ) …and let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”
Hebrews 10:14, 24-31
how do you seperate one thing being said to them and then the other said to the same people or are we supposed to “ divide out “ the things we don’t like ?
See my prior post. "knowledge" is only intellectual, but of itself, isn't discernment or true faith. To have spiritually discernment, they must first be written by God into the spiritual heart and mind. It is not within the power of man to do so
[1Co 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
[1Co 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
Yep back to the beginning of the circle “ they were never saved to begin with “ …
none of these people are saved already or condemned already
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
It isnt whoever is already saved will believe and whoever is already condemned will not believe that’s backwards belief is what brings salvation rejecting us what brings damnation
salvation is a result of the gospel the gospel isn’t a result of salvation that’s backwards like building a house before the foundation hearing and believing the gospel leads to salvation
none of these people are saved already or condemned already
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
It isnt whoever is already saved will believe and whoever is already condemned will not believe that’s backwards belief is what brings salvation rejecting us what brings damnation
salvation is a result of the gospel the gospel isn’t a result of salvation that’s backwards like building a house before the foundation hearing and believing the gospel leads to salvation
Whatever. This discussion has gone way past the point of diminishing returns, plus I've lost interest in continuing it. The
stipulations of the New Covenant are clear and simple - that God does it all. man contributes nothing. Apparently, you are unable to comprehend that. I suggest you reread and think about it further. All possible logical eventualities are covered by/in it (if you are able to understand it). When, and if, you do, let me know and we can discuss further then.
stipulations of the New Covenant are clear and simple - that God does it all. man contributes nothing. Apparently, you are unable to comprehend that. I suggest you reread and think about it further. All possible logical eventualities are covered by/in it (if you are able to understand it). When, and if, you do, let me know and we can discuss further then.
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“Whatever. This discussion has gone way past the point of diminishing returns, plus I've lost interest in continuing it.”
yeah I was wondering why after so long you even began the same argument honestly. We sort of both know where the other person stands seems like we agree there above.
“The conditions of the New Covenant are clear and simple - that God does it all. man contributes nothing. Apparently, you are unable to comprehend that.”
naw I understand Jesus made it clear before he died what his word is lol not confused at all . I just would never try to remove Jesus words from salvation and claim there’s another way …..that’s where you guys lose me Jesus set the conditions for salvation on the gospel , then he sent it to all people to either accept and be saved or reject and be damned . Simple stuff really if we actually read what they are saying that is
and I kind of thought you’d lose interest when I quoted the rest of what they are saying in Hebrews ten, so no worries I think it’s wise to stop also
yeah I was wondering why after so long you even began the same argument honestly. We sort of both know where the other person stands seems like we agree there above.
“The conditions of the New Covenant are clear and simple - that God does it all. man contributes nothing. Apparently, you are unable to comprehend that.”
naw I understand Jesus made it clear before he died what his word is lol not confused at all . I just would never try to remove Jesus words from salvation and claim there’s another way …..that’s where you guys lose me Jesus set the conditions for salvation on the gospel , then he sent it to all people to either accept and be saved or reject and be damned . Simple stuff really if we actually read what they are saying that is
and I kind of thought you’d lose interest when I quoted the rest of what they are saying in Hebrews ten, so no worries I think it’s wise to stop also
No, I lost interest because of your lack of understanding of Hebrews 10. It establishes the New Covenant - that it is THROUGH and BY Jesus Christ, not apart from, or a contradiction of Him - His sacrifice and offering is what brought it into existence. It interesting and scary though that you would attempt to refute it (and God's words) to diminish its power. I hope that it is just because of your lack understanding and wisdom regarding the purpose, power, significance and role of a covenant - that is the foundation of everything else.
I'm out.
I'm out.
AMEN brother! Amen! The New Covenant is 1,000% EFFECTUAL GRACE. God isn't a potential Savior. Nor a possible Savior. Nor does he toss people life preserver lines giving them opportunities to save themselves. He actually SAVES His covenant people which are Abraham's descendants!
We discussed this topic a few months ago, did we not? And you're still not convinced?
To answer your question: Both! Paul wrote to believers in Rome who consisted of Jews and Gentiles, however this latter audience was the predominant one per Rom 1. The Gentiles in Rome were very likely Jewish proselytes before they converted to Christianity, and Jewish converts to the Faith very likely shared the gospel with them. There's no compelling reason to think that many if not most of the Gentiles in Rome didn't have any knowledge of the Law.
We discussed this topic a few months ago, did we not? And you're still not convinced?
To answer your question: Both! Paul wrote to believers in Rome who consisted of Jews and Gentiles, however this latter audience was the predominant one per Rom 1. The Gentiles in Rome were very likely Jewish proselytes before they converted to Christianity, and Jewish converts to the Faith very likely shared the gospel with them. There's no compelling reason to think that many if not most of the Gentiles in Rome didn't have any knowledge of the Law.
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But you have no compunction in removing the unilateral conditions from the NC promises in the OT, do you? And you do this because you have no way of reconciling those unconditional, unilateral conditions with Gospel demands. You err seriously because you conflate the NC promises with Gospel demands.
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