Adultery. 
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Understanding God’s election
- Thread starter dougcho
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I didn't commit adultery. Neither did I try to get out of the marriage because of it.
amen !
“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.
He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:”
2 John 1:9-10 KJV
“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.
He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:”
2 John 1:9-10 KJV
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That they were Christians and followed Him was because they truly believed that He alone was God, Lord, Savior, and King. But just mimicking His actions, of itself, would not make anyone into a Christian (if that is your point). Until one first believes and is anchored in such belief, they are not actually Christian - and that can only occur as a gift from God through salvation and becoming born-again. Being a true a Christian along with the actions that accompany it, originates within and moves without, not the reverse - it all is God's work, none of it ours.
But that's not the point. No one is arguing that we don't have will/choice/agency. This is where the biggest misunderstanding is, and to be honest only those who are born again in truth can even understand what this truly means. What we are saying is what the Bible teaches, our "will" is NEVER "free". It is ALWAYS a slave to our nature. If we have the fallen nature we are born to, the flesh, we are born cut off from God, spiritually dead. Being born a sinner doesn't mean we come out guilty of every sin, it means we are born cut off from our God, because of Adam, we are born of the flesh, there is no way for this to happen any different, and there is no way we can fix it. Every human being born was born this way save 1. Jesus. Why is that? He was not born of Adam, He was not born of the flesh. This is why the virgin birth was 10000% necessary, and such a perfect and genius example of His awesomeness. Mary was made pregnant by the Spirit, not of the flesh. Jesus is not born of the flesh, but of the Spirit.
Back to the main point, when we are born we are born of the flesh, we are born sinners. All who sin are slaves of sin. We are born enslaved to sin. But you say (general question not "you") "we can be freed of sin through Jesus", then we have free will for sure right? Well Paul says in Romans, "Do you not know that when you continually offer yourselves to someone to do his will, you are the slaves of the one whom you obey, eitherof sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness".
What???? Am I trying to say when we are born again that just means we are trading masters? Yep. At least that's what I understand the Bible to be saying with His Spirit guiding me to all truth. However this guidance has caused me to change my view on quite a few things so far in about 12 years of following Him, so I can never say I have it all right and He can't open my eyes to things I'm missing even now, but this is where I'm at now.
I do believe we have choice and it matters what we choose. His word is very clear on that as well, but when we say there is no "free" will, we are just saying that our "will" is always enslaved to our nature, or like I say, "we are slaves of sin, or slaves if Him".
So none of these verses contridict what we're saying. No not one.
Back to the main point, when we are born we are born of the flesh, we are born sinners. All who sin are slaves of sin. We are born enslaved to sin. But you say (general question not "you") "we can be freed of sin through Jesus", then we have free will for sure right? Well Paul says in Romans, "Do you not know that when you continually offer yourselves to someone to do his will, you are the slaves of the one whom you obey, eitherof sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness".
What???? Am I trying to say when we are born again that just means we are trading masters? Yep. At least that's what I understand the Bible to be saying with His Spirit guiding me to all truth. However this guidance has caused me to change my view on quite a few things so far in about 12 years of following Him, so I can never say I have it all right and He can't open my eyes to things I'm missing even now, but this is where I'm at now.
I do believe we have choice and it matters what we choose. His word is very clear on that as well, but when we say there is no "free" will, we are just saying that our "will" is always enslaved to our nature, or like I say, "we are slaves of sin, or slaves if Him".
So none of these verses contridict what we're saying. No not one.
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But that's not the point. No one is arguing that we don't have will/choice/agency. This is where the biggest misunderstanding is, and to be honest only those who are born again in truth can even understand what this truly means. What we are saying is what the Bible teaches, our "will" is NEVER "free". It is ALWAYS a slave to our nature. If we have the fallen nature we are born to, the flesh, we are born cut off from God, spiritually dead. Being born a sinner doesn't mean we come out guilty of every sin, it means we are born cut off from our God, because of Adam, we are born of the flesh, there is no way for this to happen any different, and there is no way we can fix it. Every human being born was born this way save 1. Jesus. Why is that? He was not born of Adam, He was not born of the flesh. This is why the virgin birth was 10000% necessary, and such a perfect and genius example of His awesomeness. Mary was made pregnant by the Spirit, not of the flesh. Jesus is not born of the flesh, but of the Spirit.
Back to the main point, when we are born we are born of the flesh, we are born sinners. All who sin are slaves of sin. We are born enslaved to sin. But you say (general question not "you") "we can be freed of sin through Jesus", then we have free will for sure right? Well Paul says in Romans, "Do you not know that when you continually offer yourselves to someone to do his will, you are the slaves of the one whom you obey, eitherof sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness".
What???? Am I trying to say when we are born again that just means we are trading masters? Yep. At least that's what I understand the Bible to be saying with His Spirit guiding me to all truth. However this guidance has caused me to change my view on quite a few things so far in about 12 years of following Him, so I can never say I have it all right and He can't open my eyes to things I'm missing even now, but this is where I'm at now.
I do believe we have choice and it matters what we choose. His word is very clear on that as well, but when we say there is no "free" will, we are just saying that our "will" is always enslaved to our nature, or like I say, "we are slaves of sin, or slaves if Him".
So none of these verses contridict what we're saying. No not one.
Back to the main point, when we are born we are born of the flesh, we are born sinners. All who sin are slaves of sin. We are born enslaved to sin. But you say (general question not "you") "we can be freed of sin through Jesus", then we have free will for sure right? Well Paul says in Romans, "Do you not know that when you continually offer yourselves to someone to do his will, you are the slaves of the one whom you obey, eitherof sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness".
What???? Am I trying to say when we are born again that just means we are trading masters? Yep. At least that's what I understand the Bible to be saying with His Spirit guiding me to all truth. However this guidance has caused me to change my view on quite a few things so far in about 12 years of following Him, so I can never say I have it all right and He can't open my eyes to things I'm missing even now, but this is where I'm at now.
I do believe we have choice and it matters what we choose. His word is very clear on that as well, but when we say there is no "free" will, we are just saying that our "will" is always enslaved to our nature, or like I say, "we are slaves of sin, or slaves if Him".
So none of these verses contridict what we're saying. No not one.
Well, TULIPists argue that the nonelect have no choice/chance to be saved by believing in the U & L.